the Ultimate setup

[cj3737]

So with all the talk about Yamahas customer service and @swatski tower crashing down, I kinda pushed ARs to the back burner in my search for the ultimate rig. Been looking at local stern drives, v-drives and the occasional yammer...

I promise there is question coming, so keep reading...


Im in a stern drive right now and learning the ins and outs of operation and it seems to be ,while time consuming, pretty easy to work on. Merc parts are really easy to find and if you can manage to cram your hands in tiny places and contort your body into a pretzel, nothing seems too difficult to replace. Aside from a ton of moving parts and an un-surfable design, I can see why alot of people go with sterns. Good all around boats, with a decent shapable wake with the right set up...

Looking into Vdrives... Ideal for slower speed water sports but if chop comes up, you get soaked to the bone. Most rides that fall in my price range are older models with the motor in the middle, not conducive to a family gathering with small children that need to be held on to... Plus the slow speed handling looks to be a major pain especially around the dock... eesh... Still on my radar tho...

Always seem to gravitate back to Yamaha is some form or fashion.... Havent actually been on one yet, but I can tell the layout is awesome... Yes, customer service is terrible... Yes it may not be as aesthetically pleasing as a Cobalt, 4 Winns, or SeaRay, but still a well put together boat. Im not planning on buying brand new so Customer service is pretty much out the window and will DIY most everything if I have to.

Every type has positives and negative but ss you can see there is a major decision I must make when I purchase the new boat in a few years..

Heres the question for all...
If I decide to go with a yamaha, I plan on upgrading it immediately provided none of this is installed already.
CobraJet Ultimates
JBP Lateral thruster
Trim Tabs
Hydrophase RideSteady
Does anyone currently have all these upgrades installed and do you have video of how your boat performs with and without someone in tow?

My biggest concerns are the amount of spray from the jets, skiiers being able to pull the boat around, wake shaping ability, and cockpit noise. I was thinking of putting some DynaMat under the preexisting foam to help with the cockpit noise...

 

[djetok]

My cobra jets stick the back end in the water. You will not be able to run cobras with the jbp laterals. No worries.

I think you may be over thinking things. Just buy one and smile.

 

[Mainah]

All depends on your use case. What percentage of the time will you be doing different activities? In retrospect a forward drive Cobalt R7 surf boat may be the best for us but by no means was the Yamaha a bad choice.

 

[J-RAD]

What age used Yamaha would you be looking for? It's the 2015+ AR240's with the forward swept tower's that have had any issue. Only 1 reported collapse

I have a 2016 AR240 and I am required each outing to drop the tower to clear the eve of my house. I personally have never had an issue with the bolts loosening or cross threading... although I sympathize with @swatski and his issues, I think your odds are petty good you'd have a tower that operated safely. But the risk is obviously there... I'm still considering options for making it safer, but after 2 seasons I feel petty confident about my tower staying erect.

As for water sports behind the boat and its handling. Due to the keel design it handles very much like an I/O. Of the riders in my family, I would be the boarder to put strain on the boat. Despite the fact I have no additional steering enhancement installed the boat stays completely composed. The key to the jet spray is having the correct length rope to put the rider just past it. Ballast also helps sink the jets down and build the wake. Ridesteady is awesome, don't hesitate to install it.

 

[cj3737]

My cobra jets stick the back end in the water. You will not be able to run cobras with the jbp laterals. No worries.

I think you may be over thinking things. Just buy one and smile.

Is there a clearance issue with the 2 installs? Only worried about when others(wife) drive the boat

All depends on your use case. What percentage of the time will you be doing different activities? In retrospect a forward drive Cobalt R7 surf boat may be the best for us but by no means was the Yamaha a bad choice.

Prolly 75% playing 25% floating. Skiiing, Wakeboarding, tubing and surfing IF my kids get in to it..
Unless its a used Cobalt Surf..WAYYY out of my price range....

What age used Yamaha would you be looking for? It's the 2015+ AR240's with the forward swept tower's that have had any issue. Only 1 reported collapse

I have a 2016 AR240 and I am required each outing to drop the tower to clear the eve of my house. I personally have never had an issue with the bolts loosening or cross threading... although I sympathize with @swatski and his issues, I think your odds are petty good you'd have a tower that operated safely. But the risk is obviously there... I'm still considering options for making it safer, but after 2 seasons I feel petty confident about my tower staying erect.

As for water sports behind the boat and its handling. Due to the keel design it handles very much like an I/O. Of the riders in my family, I would be the boarder to put strain on the boat. Despite the fact I have no additional steering enhancement installed the boat stays completely composed. The key to the jet spray is having the correct length rope to put the rider just past it. Ballast also helps sink the jets down and build the wake. Ridesteady is awesome, don't hesitate to install it.

My guess when the 1/2 decade debt payoff wait is over, Ill be looking in the 2012-2017 range as far as price.. Kinda depends on what pops up..Preferably a twin of some sorts. If I do land on a 2015+, I will definitely look close at the tower.

 

[Ancient canoe]

You'll have to get JPB's thrust vectors if you want fins that are compatible with the lateral thrust.

 

[cj3737]

You'll have to get JPB's thrust vectors if you want fins that are compatible with the lateral thrust.

Think I remember reading that somewhere...
Id rather the cobras... Like the idea of the fangs being in the water... plus I think I read something along the lines that the upper bracket on the cobras diverts a little bit of spray too..

 

[CAM212SS]

i feel with the lateral thrusters you have more control around docks. straight line is the same to me going slow with cobras and vectors. i have had both

 

[djetok]

Think I remember reading that somewhere...
Id rather the cobras... Like the idea of the fangs being in the water... plus I think I read something along the lines that the upper bracket on the cobras diverts a little bit of spray too..

I don't have spray issues wake boarding. We use a 60foot rope too.
I tried to post a vid of my daughter boarding but cannot from my phone.

I have cobras ultimate with fangs. I am most likely upgrading to a ar240 and will put hydrophase on it. If we keep our current I will install it as well. It will be awesome for throttle control.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Curious about 2 things:

1. Budget
2. You talked about V drives but it sounds like what you are describing is a direct drive inboard (engine in the middle). My v drive rides smoother in chop than my Yamaha did and it is a dry ride. Those things come down to hull design, freeboard, etc - not necessarily drive type. I also find the low speed handling to be MUCH easier than my jet was.

That said, if you are looking for an all around fun boat, watersports aren't a primary concern, and you don't mind some extra noise, the Yamahas have plenty to recommend them.

 

[haknslash]

Yea I was about to say there are some v drives that handle chop very well. The older direct drive boats will tend to be kind of like ski boats and will not have a deep V. A friend of mine has an older Direct drive Malibu Outback like that and it can ride rough on windy days. Depending on your budget there may be a more modern v drive you can get into that would handle chop fine. The deeper the v the better the wave, the better it will handle and take chop. Supra, Supreme, MB, Tige, Centurion and more have nice deep V hulls for a dry and comfy ride.

 

[cj3737]

Curious about 2 things:

1. Budget
2. You talked about V drives but it sounds like what you are describing is a direct drive inboard (engine in the middle). My v drive rides smoother in chop than my Yamaha did and it is a dry ride. Those things come down to hull design, freeboard, etc - not necessarily drive type. I also find the low speed handling to be MUCH easier than my jet was.

That said, if you are looking for an all around fun boat, watersports aren't a primary concern, and you don't mind some extra noise, the Yamahas have plenty to recommend them.

budget... Most likely 20k and under
Will mainly be water sports but I dont need a huge wake. Aint no one a pro on my boat.... If I need a bigger wave for surf, I can add bags.
Dont usually get too much chop on the local lake but we do get enuf for white caps...BUT... once that starts we will prolly head back to the dock.

Creature comforts and layout will also be a big factor... Ive seen a few Masters with the J layout but most have the mid engine so the layout isnt suited for more than a few bodies in the cockpit.
Noise is another...I know yammys are loud so Ive been looking up ways to sound proof... My stern isnt terribly loud but once you get up to speed and have your head above the glass, you cant hear anything anyways..

 

[swatski]

budget... Most likely 20k and under
Will mainly be water sports but I dont need a huge wake. Aint no one a pro on my boat.... If I need a bigger wave for surf, I can add bags.
Dont usually get too much chop on the local lake but we do get enuf for white caps...BUT... once that starts we will prolly head back to the dock.

Creature comforts and layout will also be a big factor... Ive seen a few Masters with the J layout but most have the mid engine so the layout isnt suited for more than a few bodies in the cockpit.
Noise is another...I know yammys are loud so Ive been looking up ways to sound proof... My stern isnt terribly loud but once you get up to speed and have your head above the glass, you cant hear anything anyways..

I would go for something like this, I'm pretty sure you would love it:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/2009-232-limited-giveaway-atlanta.15042/#post-270642

Where you are, a 230 maybe the best option for several reasons. In a single, I think you may want a SC at that elevation - if you want to be happy doing water sports. I could tell you how to mod a 190 for a killer hole shot and pulling power at 400' but not sure what that would look like at 2,000' plus of elevation. Need a twin, and the MR-1s appear to suffer a bit less with elevation that 1.8s N/A, which kind of makes sense. The MR-1HOs are really just pure bred marinized racing engines straight of the factory floor. There is almost nothing in terms of performance mods that you can do - those are phenomenally well tuned and the internal parts are highest quality - basically you can not improve on what you get OEM.

That GA boat would need a tower for you, but that boat is very well maintained by a very skilled, adult owner. Some of the best soundproofing I have ever seen in a Yammie.
I'm still considering an "upgrade" to one of those myself - I almost bought a beautiful 2009 230LS off of ebay last year, but the owner pulled out. That would have been a fun boat to run and mod.

--

 

[haknslash]

There was a guy who posted yesterday on our local jet boat FB group that he may be interested in selling his 2007 AR230. He said it needs a little interior work "few of the top silver part of the seats needs to be replaced other than that it's in great shape and runs great". He said he was thinking of listing it at $21,500. I don't know a ton about the older boats or their market but it may be worth a look but we are far from Utah lol.

 

[FloJet]

So with all the talk about Yamahas customer service and @swatski tower crashing down, I kinda pushed ARs to the back burner in my search for the ultimate rig. Been looking at local stern drives, v-drives and the occasional yammer...

I promise there is question coming, so keep reading...


Im in a stern drive right now and learning the ins and outs of operation and it seems to be ,while time consuming, pretty easy to work on. Merc parts are really easy to find and if you can manage to cram your hands in tiny places and contort your body into a pretzel, nothing seems too difficult to replace. Aside from a ton of moving parts and an un-surfable design, I can see why alot of people go with sterns. Good all around boats, with a decent shapable wake with the right set up...

Looking into Vdrives... Ideal for slower speed water sports but if chop comes up, you get soaked to the bone. Most rides that fall in my price range are older models with the motor in the middle, not conducive to a family gathering with small children that need to be held on to... Plus the slow speed handling looks to be a major pain especially around the dock... eesh... Still on my radar tho...

Always seem to gravitate back to Yamaha is some form or fashion.... Havent actually been on one yet, but I can tell the layout is awesome... Yes, customer service is terrible... Yes it may not be as aesthetically pleasing as a Cobalt, 4 Winns, or SeaRay, but still a well put together boat. Im not planning on buying brand new so Customer service is pretty much out the window and will DIY most everything if I have to.

Every type has positives and negative but ss you can see there is a major decision I must make when I purchase the new boat in a few years..

Heres the question for all...
If I decide to go with a yamaha, I plan on upgrading it immediately provided none of this is installed already.
CobraJet Ultimates
JBP Lateral thruster
Trim Tabs
Hydrophase RideSteady
Does anyone currently have all these upgrades installed and do you have video of how your boat performs with and without someone in tow?

My biggest concerns are the amount of spray from the jets, skiiers being able to pull the boat around, wake shaping ability, and cockpit noise. I was thinking of putting some DynaMat under the preexisting foam to help with the cockpit noise...

I can help and comment on all the things you want to go with except the Lateral Thrusters. First You cannot use the Cobra jets with Lateral thursters from what I've heard. Maybe that would change soon. That was the main reason I did not go with the Lateral Thrust. With cobra fins, and practice, I just don't see the need to the lateral thrust. I can get my boat to manipulate that all day lol. Getting rid of Cobra Fins is a no go for me. I like the ability to have power steering at high speeds. Plus why turn in reverse when boat does it 10 times better in forward. But we all have our own tastes and I've heard great things about them. Just not feasible for me.

Trim tabs you will absolutely love it. I just installed my few weeks back and I'm mad I didn't do it earlier.

Hydrophase, again something you will absolutely love once you get used to it. It's truly is remarkable in how it operates. It keeps me within .2 mph of set speed usually .1 if there is any difference on turns. That's amazing.

Now for the cockpit noise, I don't see it that bad. Plus if you going to be doing water sports, get you a nice set of tower speakers and let the music take over everything. Good luck to you and you will find all the answers you need in this forum. Just speak up. Closed mouths can't be fed.

 

[FloJet]

i feel with the lateral thrusters you have more control around docks. straight line is the same to me going slow with cobras and vectors. i have had both

Not to be a party pooper but what you mean by "more control around docks"? Sure if your turning in reverse but I highly doubt going reverse has better control or turn radius than the forward motion. If someone is not utilizing reverse turning, I see those lateral thrusters pointless unless I can be proven wrong. I am curious to see them in action more tho. All the videos I've seen is turning in reverse, which can be done without them. lol

 

[FloJet]

I guess what i was trying to say is these Yamahas do an excellent job turning in place 360 degrees so not sure what the reverse fuss is all about. If you can turn 360 standing in place forward, why bother with reverse? lol.

 

[swatski]

Not to be a party pooper but what you mean by "more control around docks"? Sure if your turning in reverse but I highly doubt going reverse has better control or turn radius than the forward motion. If someone is not utilizing reverse turning, I see those lateral thrusters pointless unless I can be proven wrong. I am curious to see them in action more tho. All the videos I've seen is turning in reverse, which can be done without them. lol

I think what @CAM212SS meant moving the stern "sideways" afforded by the LTEs.
That is a very nice feature in and of itself.

However, I agree with you completely - the lack of compatibility with Cobra AKs makes it an absolute no go for me. I would think that losing FANGS would be acceptable in the AK system in 2015+ keeled hulls, but NOT in the singles with the Cobra Ultimates.

Just my 0.02

 

[FloJet]

Oh gotcha. The sideways movement.

 

[haknslash]

Reverse turning is laughable at best compared to forward thrust on Yamaha boats, especially with a single engine. That is why the LTE helps as it directs the thrust to the SIDES.