Tow vehicles - maximum tow rating

[TY Farm]

I have a titan xd and as said above don’t feel anything when our boat, tractor, cattle trailer, etc...is hooked up. I had a F150 v6 eco boost before this truck and it was not set up to tow really anything. It had the power but my issue was the transmission constantly down shifting on even the slightest incline and the rear suspension was not stiff enough. It is an unsettling feeling when you have a load (tractor, cattle etc..) causing your rear end to move around/bounce. I had moved down from a f250 to that truck and said never again. The more truck the better and more importantly a stiff suspension. Just my opinion...

 

[Scoop]

What are you using to tow your boat and is it close to the maximum rating?

I’m considering downsizing from my F-150 to a smaller truck or possibly SUV with a 5,000 lb tow rating. That is still more than the weight of my 21’ boat plus trailer, fuel, etc... but it is close.

Is anyone else in a similar situation and have you had any problems towing close to max rating?

I just posted this video a few days ago in the towing section - it should answer a lot of your towing questions and is a good review for all.

Towing weight video

 

[AZMark]

Don’t do it. If you want a smaller vehicle than the f150 at least get something with 6-7000lb capacity.
I started with a 5000lb rating when I got my boat and didn’t make it half a season before upgrading.

 

[Woodsy]

I pull my 2017 AR210 with a 2020 4Runner and it tows great. It had a little sag with the tongue weight, but a set of air bags in the rear springs fixed that. 4Runner might be the last mid sized suv‘s still built on a frame Now that the pathfinder is a uni-body.

This is actually my 3rd 4Runner. Had a 2015, 2018, 2020. Toyota calls me up every few years offering to put me in a new one for the same payment plan. They have on of the best resale values out there. I always get them to install a 3” lift and 33” tires for delivery.

 

[RobbieO]

What are you using to tow your boat and is it close to the maximum rating?

I’m considering downsizing from my F-150 to a smaller truck or possibly SUV with a 5,000 lb tow rating. That is still more than the weight of my 21’ boat plus trailer, fuel, etc... but it is close.

Is anyone else in a similar situation and have you had any problems towing close to max rating?

My 2020 Explorer has a 5600lb rating and tows my 212SE no problems.

 

[AZMark]

I pull my 2017 AR210 with a 2020 4Runner and it tows great. It had a little sag with the tongue weight, but a set of air bags in the rear springs fixed that. 4Runner might be the last mid sized suv‘s still built on a frame Now that the pathfinder is a uni-body.

This is actually my 3rd 4Runner. Had a 2015, 2018, 2020. Toyota calls me up every few years offering to put me in a new one for the same payment plan. They have on of the best resale values out there. I always get them to install a 3” lift and 33” tires for delivery.

I had a 2012 but same engine with a lift and I didn’t love it. I do have a lot of elevation to a few of the lakes here and that was the main issue.
I’ve had two 4runners and agree that they are awesome all around trucks. I sold mine for about 60% of what I paid new after 7 years and 120k miles.

 

[BDriver886]

Like everyone has said it’s best not to tow at max weight. You definitely don’t want to be over weight. If you have an accident you will liable.
Got a $6000 ticket for towing overweight in AZ, didn’t have an accident just over weight.

 

[2kwik4u]

Tow ratings don’t tell the whole story IMO. (I also think they’re inflated)

They've actually been standardized in the last decade or so with SAE J2807. When that standard was first implemented minivans saw huge increase, and fullsize pickups saw huge derates (or improvements in equipment). I trust a tow rating now more than ever. They are far less marketing than they used to be.

You should also consider wheelbase, wind drag and weight of the tow vehicle as compared to the size (not just weight) of what you are towing.

100% agreed here. Many manufacturers will list a maximum frontal area in their tow ratings for this reason. Boats are still an order of magnitude easier on a tow vehicle than a travel trailer, pointy nose and all. Wheelbase is more critical as you load gets longer and has more side area. Side loading from wind becomes the consideration there. Having acceptable control authority over the load is the difference between a white knuckle drive, and an easy Sunday afternoon cruise.

Case in point was my 2019 summer vacation. I towed my AR190 with a '15 GMC Sierra (5.3L/6spd/3.42 gears), and my neighbors towed their 24ft Tritoon with a '19 Silverado (5.3L/10spd/3.42 gears). He averaged around 10mpg, I averaged around 14. Same driveline and vehicle shape combination, same speeds, same terrain, same weather. His pontoon was like towing a giant sail, while my 190 with a cover was much closer to towing a bullet. He was never without power, however I always felt like I had plenty of overhead (even in TN mountain) he often said he was downshifting 2-3 gears on the uphill's. The aerodynamics of that giant sail just killed the trip for him.

Ford brags about their eco-boost, but they suck gas bigtime. More air=More fuel. My Explorer is a rocket ship, but an hour to the lake and back is 3/4 of a tank.

Boosted spark ignition engines under sustained load have a challenge with exhaust gas temps getting to high, and cylinder temps in general getting very high. You end up with things like sodium filled exhaust valves (phase change cooling), exotic alloy valve springs, and oddball shaped/polished exhaust manifolds. When that isn't enough, you throw fuel at it to keep those temps in check. It's pretty obvious Ford chose fuel as the cooling medium here for sustained high load applications. Makes sense to put the cost of keeping the engine cool on the customer instead of exotic parts (from a manufacturing standpoint). Kind of sucks for fuel mileage when towing though. Considering the lions share of F150 miles are driven under light/no load, it's still a win overall IMO.

I'll be doing my first towing with a forced induction engine this season. I've read nothing by good reviews, however I'm still slightly nervous about it. Q7 has a supercharged 3.0L V6. Ir produces very similar HP/Tq numbers compared to my outgoing 5.3L N/A V8. It does have more torque lower in the rev range, and an overall flatter torque curve. The Audi has a liquid based heat exchanger setup which is a mixed bag of good and bad. The liquid, in general, can take away more heat, and will lead to more consistent intake temperatures, however once heat soaked it's hard to get that heat back out of that liquid. I can feel the heat soak issues already in daily driving, I'm really curious how it does in a sustained load condition like towing. Ford (and many others) with turbo charged engines) use an air-to-air heat exchanging setup, which doesn't heat soak nearly as bad as a liquid setup, however it doesn't have the capacity to absorb heat like a liquid system does. It's also lighter, and less complex in general.........It's really interesting to see how forced induction has changed the game in terms of towing with gas engines.

 

[2kwik4u]

You definitely don’t want to be over weight. If you have an accident you will liable.

I'm going to respectfully disagree here. Following words sound harsh and are aimed at the mentality of "you'll get sued" not you as a person.

I've yet to see/hear/read/been told/or otherwise shown where ANYONE has been cited, sued, or otherwise charged in an accident for being overweight. People cite this as an issue ALL THE TIME. I can't remember a tow rating question thread WITHOUT this being brought up, and I've attempted to find evidence on my own with no luck. Even found an article some years back with a lawyer being quoted to the effect of "It would be significantly hard to prove", and continuing that he would not pursue that avenue as simple driver negligence of poor driving habits would most likely get him where he needed to go.

I've gone so far as to ask my insurance agent outright if I would be covered if I crashed while towing over the limit. First question was "which limit? Vehicle? Trailer? Road?" Second question was "Why wouldn't you be covered? People do stupid stuff every day and that is essentially why we're in business.". I explained my curiosity, and she "ran it up the chain" to her rep, who then went up to their boss. Got 2-3 levels deep, and essentially got the answer of "Dunno, we've never heard of it being an issue to cause a claim to not be paid before".

Seriously, I'm all ears for evidence to the contrary here from anyone.

Please keep in mind, I'm not advocating for towing over the limit, it's just a pet peeve of mine that the "You'll get sued" is always brought up as a justification for not towing over the limit. Sure there is a potential for liability here. The reason for not towing over the limit should never get to the point of "will I get sued or not", it should be "will I be safe or not?". If you're more worried about being sued than being safe, there is no level of prep/research/equipment that can help you, as the entire thought process is backwards and you're most likely making additional bad choices beyond exceeding your vehicles limits that will find you sooner or later.

Got a $6000 ticket for towing overweight in AZ, didn’t have an accident just over weight.

This is the very first time in over 20 years of towing (as long as I've been paying attention to these kinds of things anyway) that I have heard of a recreational boater getting a ticket for towing over weight.

Can you give us some details? Tow vehicle and rating, what was being towed. Were you speeding? Did they pull you over out of the blue? Was an obvious mismatch of ratings like towing a 30ft cabin cruiser with a Prius (sorry @Betik ). I'm really really interested to hear about this, not doubting the story, just extremely curious.

 

[Elliott]

Unfortunately, tow vehicle advice is often predicated on assumptions and advice from past eras that do not apply to modern vehicles.

The 80% rule -Modern vehicles are given tow rating based on the SAE J2807 engineering standard; in the past manufacturers were left to their own devices to assign a tow rating. In the past, those ratings tended to be inflated or best case, and so people use to advise to stay 20% under those old system ratings. There is no reason to do this with modern vehicles. Staying 20% under a modern rating does not improve your safety by any meaningful amount. For those that think otherwise, how much (give us some numbers) safety improvement is made by only using 80% of tow capacity? You will find that they cannot quantify it, and that tells you all you need to know about the claim.

Bigger/heavy vehicles make towing safer - Although it sounds logical, it fails to account for two things: the fact that the stability of the trailer is far below even the most maxed out tow vehicle with the proper tow rating and the tow vehicle cannot transmit its greater stability to the trailer through the hitch. A simple example, a 1/2 ton and a 3/4 ton truck are towing a trailer too fast through a curve. The speed at which or the point at which (both trucks traveling the same speed) the trailer either slides off the road or overturns will be the same. Again, the weak link is the stability of the trailer. You may feel more secure in the 3/4 ton truck, but trailer's stability will still be the limiting factor. If your trailer has brakes, the old advice about a heavy tow vehicle does not apply. Any maxed tow vehicle with the proper tow rating can exert more braking force than the trailer's stability can withstand. Slam on the brakes with the 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck, and once the unsafe level of braking force (which will peak well above the maximum the trailer can accept) is reached - you will lose control of the trailer. Remember you cannot transmit tow vehicle stability through the hitch. How could you? The hitch is designed to allow wide arcs (up/down and left/right) of movement. Similarly, a longer wheelbase may make your ride in the tow vehicle more comfortable, but it will not make the trailer more stable. Wheelbase is not part of the SAE J2807 towing standard, and you will not find manufacturers listing greater towing capacity for variants of the same vehicle with longer wheelbases (an 8 foot bed F150 will not have a higher tow rating than a 6 foot bed F150 - it will actually be less due to the extra weight of the longer truck)

Make sure all of your tow vehicle numbers are sufficient for your boat/trailer (and any payload inside/outside that you will carry), and you will have a safe set up. You may want a more capable tow vehicle for some perceived ride comfort, but it will not improve your safety.

 

[2kwik4u]

@Elliott Great post, and highly relevant for trailer boaters.

Emergency lane changes and braking maneuvers are the big events that, IMO, define your stability comments. I personally think emergency braking is made worse by reactive braking systems (surge brakes), instead of proactive systems (full electric, electric over hydraulic). A good parallel is the difference in corner speed between a superbike and a Miata. The Miata will have a higher corner speed based solely on contact patch. In emergency braking or lane change with a trailer, the weight, contact patch, and suspension dynamics of the tow vehicle are going to exceed that of the trailer in all but extremely rare edge cases. You're going to out brake and out turn that trailer, leading to a really sketchy overturn/slide/crash scenario. This is without even considering being over the limit or not.

For travel trailers where weight distributing hitches are concerned, there is SOME transfer of stiffness through the hitch. Check out Pull-Rite hitches, the have a hitch setup that creates two points of contact on the tow vehicle, and locks the ball horizontally. We had one of those on an old Suburban in the late '90's. Virtually eliminated trailer sway on our 26ft camper. Really cool system.

I would really really love to see a WDH with full electric brakes come to recreation boating. Would create such a safer/more predictable setup for so many people!

 

[Billtex2000]

2014 Durango Citadel V6 with the factory tow package (vented rear discs, load leveling suspension, etc) does nicely! Rated at 6200lbs.

 

[2kwik4u]

I just posted this video a few days ago in the towing section - it should answer a lot of your towing questions and is a good review for all.

Towing weight video

Great video. Very informative, and a really good primer on how the dammit towing works (by the numbers).

His calculator has some assumptions in there that are a little off, but overall not bad at all.

Dude's as dry as a popcorn fart though.

 

[suke]

I have a titan xd and as said above don’t feel anything when our boat, tractor, cattle trailer, etc...is hooked up. I had a F150 v6 eco boost before this truck and it was not set up to tow really anything. It had the power but my issue was the transmission constantly down shifting on even the slightest incline and the rear suspension was not stiff enough. It is an unsettling feeling when you have a load (tractor, cattle etc..) causing your rear end to move around/bounce. I had moved down from a f250 to that truck and said never again. The more truck the better and more importantly a stiff suspension. Just my opinion...

that's the polar opposite experience I've had with my F150 ecoboost. Did yours have the max tow? I've towed near the 13k limit hauling a small-ish excavator a couple of times and that thing yanked it around like it was nothing. I can haul at 70mph and my trans doesn't shift out of gear 10 for nearly any hill. The gas mileage while towing has been respectable at 12-14mpg.

Without it loaded I get 23mpg on the highway with the cruise set at 73mph all day long.

 

[Stevepro172]

I have seen people tow things that I personally wouldn't do but knowledge is key then you can decide. Not to pick on anyone but take this scenario:


The Chevy Colorado and Ford ranger have tow ratings of 7000+ lbs. I have the v6 colorado and regularly tow my travel trailer ~ 5000lbs wet and loaded, my truck bed full of toys, and cab full of family. I use a load leveling hitch with sway control and have full trailer brakes. The engine stays higher revs (3500-4500rpm) up hills at 55/65 mph but otherwise feels super stable handling and braking. I would not tow with anything smaller though.

A quick research say the 2021 V6 Colorado has a Max tow rating of 7700lbs and a MAX PAYLOAD rating of 1,550lbs. This means that the truck can be loaded up with 1700lbs of people and gear (note they include the driver at 150lbs!). So when towing a travel trailer you have typically between 10-15% of the weight on the tongue. Let's assume in this example its 15% of 5000 or 750lbs. So with a completely empty truck you are down to 950lbs of weight you can load. Add a wife and 2 small kids (est 400lbs) and your down to 550lbs left to load!

If you swap out the 5000lbs trailer to a 7000lbs one you are left with only 250lbs in the bed!

Do the math and make your decision on how much risk you want to take. Anything under the payload amount you are legally good, and perhaps safe. But I wouldn't risk towing long distances at close to max payload. But i'm not a big risk taker!

 

[RobbieO]

I have seen people tow things that I personally wouldn't do but knowledge is key then you can decide. Not to pick on anyone but take this scenario:


The Chevy Colorado and Ford ranger have tow ratings of 7000+ lbs. I have the v6 colorado and regularly tow my travel trailer ~ 5000lbs wet and loaded, my truck bed full of toys, and cab full of family. I use a load leveling hitch with sway control and have full trailer brakes. The engine stays higher revs (3500-4500rpm) up hills at 55/65 mph but otherwise feels super stable handling and braking. I would not tow with anything smaller though.

A quick research say the 2021 V6 Colorado has a Max tow rating of 7700lbs and a MAX PAYLOAD rating of 1,550lbs. This means that the truck can be loaded up with 1700lbs of people and gear (note they include the driver at 150lbs!). So when towing a travel trailer you have typically between 10-15% of the weight on the tongue. Let's assume in this example its 15% of 5000 or 750lbs. So with a completely empty truck you are down to 950lbs of weight you can load. Add a wife and 2 small kids (est 400lbs) and your down to 550lbs left to load!

If you swap out the 5000lbs trailer to a 7000lbs one you are left with only 250lbs in the bed!

Do the math and make your decision on how much risk you want to take. Anything under the payload amount you are legally good, and perhaps safe. But I wouldn't risk towing long distances at close to max payload. But i'm not a big risk taker!

My Explorer is in the shop and they gave me a new Ford Ranger to drive. I don't care what they say, this ranger can not handle 7500LB. It has a 2.3l and it a gutless wonder and the brakes and suspension are terrible. I've been a Ford guy my entire life (Ford Tech 35 yr), I would never pull a boat with this truck.

 

[Jameson Clark]

We tow our 212x with an Explorer Sport with the 3.5 Ecoboost. I tow the camper with my F150 that also has the 3.5 Ecoboost. Zero complaints on how both perform. I am a huge fan of the Ecoboost platform and the Explorer tows the boat way way better than expected!

 

[djetok]

that's the polar opposite experience I've had with my F150 ecoboost. Did yours have the max tow? I've towed near the 13k limit hauling a small-ish excavator a couple of times and that thing yanked it around like it was nothing. I can haul at 70mph and my trans doesn't shift out of gear 10 for nearly any hill. The gas mileage while towing has been respectable at 12-14mpg.

Without it loaded I get 23mpg on the highway with the cruise set at 73mph all day long.

What axle do you have 3.55 or 3.31? I've had both axles and went with 3.55 from. There on out, max mpg was 20.

To the op @TY Farm

Think hard about getting out of your truck. I sold my boat and got out of the truck. I figured , hey I own a roll off company and I have a couple small trucks 5500 and 6500. I will just throw a 5 yard contrainer on and haul furniture. We'll I ended up buying another truck just to haul stuff. I paid a premium for the truck. You may get a premium. For your trade , but I would suggest you think hard and long before you give it up. We really missed the truck this ski season. We hauled more people and less stuff, since we did not have a bed to haul everyone's stuff.

 

[Maineiac]

This is all great information, thanks!

I’m going to be storing the boat at the lake all season on a lift so I won’t be trailering daily anymore. Only trips to/from storage or the dealer for maintenance.

I was considering trading in my 2.7 ecoboost for something a little smaller to get better gas mileage and more creature comforts driving to work every day since I won’t be towing as much anymore.

 

[Yambers]

Great video. Very informative, and a really good primer on how the dammit towing works (by the numbers).

His calculator has some assumptions in there that are a little off, but overall not bad at all.

Dude's as dry as a popcorn fart though.

Isnt that Napoleon Dynamites brother???