Tow vehicles - maximum tow rating

[OrangeTJ]

As far as doing "truck stuff", I'd agree that the midsize trucks don't have a great cost:benefit ratio. They do, however, have a signficant advantage in ease-of-use for daily driving, particularly if you live somewhere with tight parking areas and narrow streets. Personally, I live in the 'burbs bordering on rural so I have no issues driving my diesel powered Ram 2500 on a daily basis. Having lived in the city, though, I can definitely appreciate the advantages of a smaller size. My Jeep Wrangler (TJ) was simply incredible in those confines.

As regards towing, having towed close to the limit with our 2004 GMC Yukon vs. less than half the limit with our Ram, I am firmly in the camp of getting the stoutest truck possible. Power and braking are one thing, overall stability and handling are another. The much stiffer suspension of the heavier duty truck make a HUGE difference in the overall towing experience, whether it's a 4,000ish pound 21 foot Yamaha, a 6000ish pound 22 foot MB wakeboat, or a 8000ish pound 28 foot travel trailer.

As an aside, I am always a bit leery of those "don't even feel it back there" comments. I can't remember towing anything of any substance and not being keenly aware that it was back there. Having it be a situation where it pushes the vehicle close to its limits vs. simply being something the vehicle was designed to handle well is obvious, but it always always always feels to me like something big is being pulled along behind the tow vehicle.

 

[dzeppos]

Its a combination of your truck's tow rating, your tongue weight, hitch and existing weight that you have on the boat and the two vehicle.
I'm on my second Ford Expedition Max with Tow package - rated at 9000 lbs. I tow a 242, so i'm figuring 5300 lbs with gear/fuel/trailer. Moving the bow stop a few inches helped (reduce the tongue weight which are overdone by Shorelander), but there's nothing worse than feeling under powered/braked towing in 110F heat on a 6% grade in the desert (CA to Lake Mead Run). If you two a few miles- fine - - otherwise having excess tow capacity makes the trip so much more enjoyable and safer.

 

[2kwik4u]

As an aside, I am always a bit leery of those "don't even feel it back there" comments.

100% agree. If you actually forget it's back there, then you're not paying close enough attention to what's happening with your vehicle and your trailer when you drive.

I understand there is a good bit of hyperbole in those statements, so I try to not jump on them too often. Even a 2500 will notice a "little" SX190 on the back. Maybe a 3500 lwb dually with a jet ski attached is a true "don't even notice it" situation. Either way, in the 19-24ft boat segment you need to be towing with something on the order of a semi truck to not notice it's back there.

 

[HangOutdoors]

As an aside, I am always a bit leery of those "don't even feel it back there" comments

Of course these are Hyperbole's and meant to be taken as such. Not sure what to say for those that don't get that.

 

[Stevepro172]

Like others have said, look at where and how far you're going. There's lots of comments in here about boat weight, but remember that's only 1 part of the equation. For me, I look at it this way:
Boat = 4200lb
Trailer = 900lb (this is on the sticker on the tongue)
Fuel = ~300lb when full (I usually try to pull with less than a full load except for the last few miles)
Treasures in the boat= 1000lb (approx guess)
That's about 6400lbs.

My SQ7 is rated at 7700lbs, so I figure I'm at about 83% of towing capacity

Max tow number is pretty meaningless. Ever seen the commercial of the tundra towing the space shuttle? That is what your 7700lbs means. That it could pull that weight if it had zero tongue weight. that is why you need to look at both payload (the max amount of weight you can put into the truck) and how much that weighs. the 2021 SQ7 only has a payload of 1356lbs. Forget about the boat for a second and look at a Travel trailer that weighs 7700lbs. at 12% tongue weight, that is 924lbs. or 432lbs left to load people and gear.

I'm sure it pulls fine and you are well within the numbers but just wanted to point out you are closer to max then you think. Just trying to educate and not judge!

 

[2kwik4u]

Max tow number is pretty meaningless. Ever seen the commercial of the tundra towing the space shuttle? That is what your 7700lbs means. That it could pull that weight if it had zero tongue weight. that is why you need to look at both payload (the max amount of weight you can put into the truck) and how much that weighs. the 2021 SQ7 only has a payload of 1356lbs. Forget about the boat for a second and look at a Travel trailer that weighs 7700lbs. at 12% tongue weight, that is 924lbs. or 432lbs left to load people and gear.

I'm sure it pulls fine and you are well within the numbers but just wanted to point out you are closer to max then you think. Just trying to educate and not judge!

Tongue weight on the Q7 is limited (rated) at 770lbs. If he's at 12% he's over. 12% is an "aggressive" tongue weight setting IMO. 10% is still pretty cautious, and anything down to ~5-6% is still stable (from a physics standpoint, each rig and setup will vary some). I know a LOT of folks here have moved the bow stop on the trailer back to get them to ~8% or so, with excellent results. Vehicle type, load weight and shape, and a myriad of other factors play into that too though.

Q7 also has a ridiculous "pin distance" requirement of like 6in or something. It's absurdly tight, and even the hitch Audi sells doesn't meet that requirement, so technically, you can't tow at all with it and be "within specification" unless you custom fabricate a tow bar. Completely assinine requirement IMO.

This is a fine example of making a judgement call about the factory ratings, your comfort level with risk, and deciding to tow "over the limit". Personal experience and judgement are large defining factors in that decision making process. I'll technically be towing "over the limit" with my AR190 and Q7 setup. I can't meet the limit of pin distance and still have the hitch physically fit on the vehicle, and be level. I'm making the judgement call to ignore that limit and move the ball rearward slightly (~4in). I'm making that judgement call based on my understanding of how load transfers within a welded and bolted structure, and relying on my years of experience designing and building those types of structures. Others might make the same judgement call based on other evidence (like reports of others doing it with no ill effects, previous experience with similar situations, or other metrics). Still a judgement call though.

 

[Stevepro172]

Tongue weight on the Q7 is limited (rated) at 770lbs. If he's at 12% he's over. 12% is an "aggressive" tongue weight setting IMO. 10% is still pretty cautious, and anything down to ~5-6% is still stable (from a physics standpoint, each rig and setup will vary some). I know a LOT of folks here have moved the bow stop on the trailer back to get them to ~8% or so, with excellent results. Vehicle type, load weight and shape, and a myriad of other factors play into that too though.

Q7 also has a ridiculous "pin distance" requirement of like 6in or something. It's absurdly tight, and even the hitch Audi sells doesn't meet that requirement, so technically, you can't tow at all with it and be "within specification" unless you custom fabricate a tow bar. Completely assinine requirement IMO.

This is a fine example of making a judgement call about the factory ratings, your comfort level with risk, and deciding to tow "over the limit". Personal experience and judgement are large defining factors in that decision making process. I'll technically be towing "over the limit" with my AR190 and Q7 setup. I can't meet the limit of pin distance and still have the hitch physically fit on the vehicle, and be level. I'm making the judgement call to ignore that limit and move the ball rearward slightly (~4in). I'm making that judgement call based on my understanding of how load transfers within a welded and bolted structure, and relying on my years of experience designing and building those types of structures. Others might make the same judgement call based on other evidence (like reports of others doing it with no ill effects, previous experience with similar situations, or other metrics). Still a judgement call though.
[/Q

Agreed with the boat setup, for some reason double axle boats only call for 6-10 percent tongue weight. I know first hand with travel trailers you want closer to 15% but I think it has to do more with greater cross section and the wind but I could be completely wrong. I just know I needed to load my toy hauler closer to the front to maintain 15% or it would wag its tail pretty bad. My AR240 is around 10% give or take how I load it and never once have had sway.

 

[2kwik4u]

Agreed with the boat setup, for some reason double axle boats only call for 6-10 percent tongue weight. I know first hand with travel trailers you want closer to 15% but I think it has to do more with greater cross section and the wind but I could be completely wrong. I just know I needed to load my toy hauler closer to the front to maintain 15% or it would wag its tail pretty bad. My AR240 is around 10% give or take how I load it and never once have had sway.

I read a great article awhile back (I'll try to dig it up at home tonight) that talked about how tongue weight recommendations got so high in the US. It was based around the premise that our licensing requirements are far far more relaxed than European standards, and adding tongue weight adds safety factor to the stability of the setup. It's not uncommon to see the same vehicle in Europe rated for 25-40% more total weight, and significantly less (5-8% total) tongue weight.

 

[digitalthug916]

I disagree with the cost/benefit argument here. Granted that EVERYTHING is getting more expensive it feels like the full sized trucks are increasing in cost more rapidly than most. They sure tout the entry price of the vehicle but as soon as you add a simple option like 4wd you’re adding nearly $8-10k because you have to step up from the base model. When I bought my Chevy Colorado in 2016 a similarly outfitted F150 would sell (not msrp) for close to $10k more than I paid. My midsize does everything I want/need it to from towing, trips to the HD for all my projects (and there are many!) to hauling kids to/from school.

I 100% agree with the ease of use vs full sized. I lived in downtown Seattle when I purchased and when I test drove the f150 I couldn’t get down my street without pulling the mirrors in. Now I live in suburbs in CA and I still love the size of it. Parking lots are getting smaller and population denser even in my slightly rural local.

In a few years when my kids get bigger I will consider moving up in size to accommodate them but for now I’m good.

And. BTW the new Ford ranger is a pretty good value even in the base model. Good engine and transmission.

As far as doing "truck stuff", I'd agree that the midsize trucks don't have a great cost:benefit ratio. They do, however, have a signficant advantage in ease-of-use for daily driving, particularly if you live somewhere with tight parking areas and narrow streets. Personally, I live in the 'burbs bordering on rural so I have no issues driving my diesel powered Ram 2500 on a daily basis. Having lived in the city, though, I can definitely appreciate the advantages of a smaller size. My Jeep Wrangler (TJ) was simply incredible in those confines.

As regards towing, having towed close to the limit with our 2004 GMC Yukon vs. less than half the limit with our Ram, I am firmly in the camp of getting the stoutest truck possible. Power and braking are one thing, overall stability and handling are another. The much stiffer suspension of the heavier duty truck make a HUGE difference in the overall towing experience, whether it's a 4,000ish pound 21 foot Yamaha, a 6000ish pound 22 foot MB wakeboat, or a 8000ish pound 28 foot travel trailer.

As an aside, I am always a bit leery of those "don't even feel it back there" comments. I can't remember towing anything of any substance and not being keenly aware that it was back there. Having it be a situation where it pushes the vehicle close to its limits vs. simply being something the vehicle was designed to handle well is obvious, but it always always always feels to me like something big is being pulled along behind the tow vehicle.

 

[Elliott]

I read a great article awhile back (I'll try to dig it up at home tonight) that talked about how tongue weight recommendations got so high in the US. It was based around the premise that our licensing requirements are far far more relaxed than European standards, and adding tongue weight adds safety factor to the stability of the setup. It's not uncommon to see the same vehicle in Europe rated for 25-40% more total weight, and significantly less (5-8% total) tongue weight.

FWIW, the SAE J2807 standard uses a 10% tongue weight.

 

[eastcoaster]

As mentioned tow ratings are not the only issue. I will give you my example. Toyota Tacoma 4x4 v6 with trailer tow package with a 6500# tow rating towing 5500# with boat trailer fuel etc. Truck has a payload rating of 1400. Tongue weight of 550#, Fuel in truck 100#, misc gear dog etc 300# leaving me with only 450# for passengers and anything else before I am overweight. Insurance is another issue . If you are exceeding the vehicle GVW or tow capacity and are involved in an accident your insurance coverage is likely void

 

[digitalthug916]

The problem is the truck in your example. You shouldn’t use a taco for anything but looking like a turd while driving?

As mentioned tow ratings are not the only issue. I will give you my example. Toyota Tacoma 4x4 v6 with trailer tow package with a 6500# tow rating towing 5500# with boat trailer fuel etc. Truck has a payload rating of 1400. Tongue weight of 550#, Fuel in truck 100#, misc gear dog etc 300# leaving me with only 450# for passengers and anything else before I am overweight. Insurance is another issue . If you are exceeding the vehicle GVW or tow capacity and are involved in an accident your insurance coverage is likely void

 

[Elliott]

As mentioned tow ratings are not the only issue. I will give you my example. Toyota Tacoma 4x4 v6 with trailer tow package with a 6500# tow rating towing 5500# with boat trailer fuel etc. Truck has a payload rating of 1400. Tongue weight of 550#, Fuel in truck 100#, misc gear dog etc 300# leaving me with only 450# for passengers and anything else before I am overweight. Insurance is another issue . If you are exceeding the vehicle GVW or tow capacity and are involved in an accident your insurance coverage is likely void

No - this is a common misconception about insurance. If you are negligent your insurance will cover you. Speeding, drunk driving, failing to maintain your vehicle, running a stop sign and essentially everything else will not void your insurance; in fact, some of those listed are crimes too.

I can go into a much longer explanation, but the whole point of insurance is to cover you when it is your fault. The insurance company is legally obligated to defend and indemnify (pay any settlement/judgment) you up to the terms of the policy.

In addition to all of the other terrible things that I am, I am also an attorney.

 

[rbarthur21]

Insurance is another issue . If you are exceeding the vehicle GVW or tow capacity and are involved in an accident your insurance coverage is likely void

I'm having Dèjà vu

 

[2kwik4u]

FWIW, the SAE J2807 standard uses a 10% tongue weight.

Good catch.

 

[2kwik4u]

Staying somewhat on topic.

Saw this driving home today.....triple axle trailer under a GIANT mastercraft being towed by a Land Rover Discovery. Best I can tell the Discovery is rated up to 8,200lbs when properly equipped. (3)-3500lb axles (guesstimate) would indicate a nearly 10k lb boat! Guy was cruising up the left lane at 75 in a 55. Wasn't swaying or acting poorly, just driving WAY to fast for traffic. On what is probably the largest hill we have in the Louisville metro area (I-64 westbound between 265 and Georgetown exit), and he had no issues maintaining speed.



We'll just skim right over the safety issues of me taking a picture while driving 70+mph to catch him. I did have lane assist and active cruise enabled, so the car was doing some of the driving for me

 

[BlkGS]

I towed my sx230 with a v8 Colorado. Plenty of power, enough cooling, and tow rating waswell within limits. That said, it SUUUUCKED. I did it once and then put it into the marina for storage. The short wheelbase and light weight tossed me around a good big. Stopping was doable but unpleasant (I later found out the trailer had no brakes). Overall, not a fun experience.

I upgraded that truck to a trailblazer ss, and have yet to tow with it, but suspect the extra size and weight will make for a bit more pleasant experience. I was looking at the explorer St, which was right around the limit with safety margin for weight, but skipped it and am glad I did.

I wouldn't downgrade to a mid-size truck except maybe a diesel Colorado. But probably not. My next upgrade from my tbss is like a v8 durango (like everyone else here has), or possibly an amg.

 

[BlkGS]

Staying somewhat on topic.

Saw this driving home today.....triple axle trailer under a GIANT mastercraft being towed by a Land Rover Discovery. Best I can tell the Discovery is rated up to 8,200lbs when properly equipped. (3)-3500lb axles (guesstimate) would indicate a nearly 10k lb boat! Guy was cruising up the left lane at 75 in a 55. Wasn't swaying or acting poorly, just driving WAY to fast for traffic. On what is probably the largest hill we have in the Louisville metro area (I-64 westbound between 265 and Georgetown exit), and he had no issues maintaining speed.

View attachment 149884

We'll just skim right over the safety issues of me taking a picture while driving 70+mph to catch him. I did have lane assist and active cruise enabled, so the car was doing some of the driving for me

My trailer has 2x 3500lb axles... Boat Is like 3000lbs... I doubt the boat weighs that much.

 

[2kwik4u]

My trailer has 2x 3500lb axles... Boat Is like 3000lbs... I doubt the boat weighs that much.

Gotta be over 7k otherwise why the third axle right? I bet the boat is near 8k and the trailer is another 2500 or so. It's getting up there for certain.

 

[mwalker4]

Get the popcorn ?. I tow my 190 with a minivan with factory tow rated at 3600# I know and observe my limitations. In the van it's just my wife and I. I drive like my mother, always giving plenty of room. I only go to ramps I am familiar with. I monitor all the temperatures on long trips . If more people are going there's second vehicle. I love my minivan and have towed 18 to 19 foot boats with minivans for over 25 years. Most times I tow flat under 10 miles. A couple of times per year I go 5 hours to KY. As many people have said above, there are many factors that go into towing safely.