UGH - was just told I need to replace MR1 Starboard engine in 2008 212x (no compression in #4)

[netcourt]

Took a "new to me" 2008 212x to a certified Yamaha shop for some repairs and to investigate some things I wanted looked at. He just called and said they've found no compression in cylinder 4 in the Starboard engine. Says it's in bad shape and they can't repair/rebuild it. New engine is $10-12K - might be able to find a reconditioned model "from Florida" for around $5K (but no warranty). Just bought the boat from Georgia (I'm in Ohio) last February for $26,500. Mind you - the boat seemingly to me, runs fine and is fast. I haven't noticed any power difference or RPM output difference in the engines while running at any speed (low or high). I'm just shocked.... Any advice? Questions I should ask to shop, suggestions, etc. You're all my best resource, thank you.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Validate their findings, with your own compression test or another shop. You may be able to find a totaled boat on CoPart or other site that you could buy on the cheap and take the engine. Just some ideas.

 

[Cambo]

Get a compression tester and test it yourself



Was he a forum member ?

 

[netcourt]

Get a compression tester and test it yourself



Was he a forum member ?

The shop is a Yamaha dealer in Northeast Ohio - a reputable place that also performs service. Whether the specific mechanic is a member here I'm not sure. The boat is still there onsite -waiting for me to calm down and decide what to do next.

 

[Cambo]

the boat seemingly to me, runs fine and is fast. I haven't noticed any power difference or RPM output difference in the engines while running at any speed (low or high). I'm just shocked...

If one cylinder was at zero it would not run like you describe

The question was directed to the previous owner if he was a member here. For anyone buying a used boat a compression check takes about 20 minutes and would be best if tested after a water test when the engines are warm.

I think the jet ski motors can be swapped as well if you find the correct model.

The other possibly incorrect info is the warranty the motors can have upto a 2 year warranty but the install removal and shipping are not covered.

Buy the ski with the same motor put that in the boat install the SBT motor in the ski and sell it

 

[dgfreeze]

I'm sorry, but a 4 cylinder engine with one completely dead cylinder will be massively noticeable. Possible faulty compression tester?? I'd be retrieving the boat, checking the compressions myself, and taking it out for a water test. That engine would barely even want to run, much less generate any power/rpm's. I'm not saying anyone's trying to screw you, I'm just saying something doesn't add up. I'm not a big fan of compression tests, they're not as accurate as leakdown tests. If you do have a cylinder that's off, request a leakdown test. It will tell you if the compression is coming out the intake valve, or the exhaust valve, or past the rings, etc...

 

[netcourt]

I'm sorry, but a 4 cylinder engine with one completely dead cylinder will be massively noticeable. Possible faulty compression tester?? I'd be retrieving the boat, checking the compressions myself, and taking it out for a water test. That engine would barely even want to run, much less generate any power/rpm's. I'm not saying anyone's trying to screw you, I'm just saying something doesn't add up. I'm not a big fan of compression tests, they're not as accurate as leakdown tests. If you do have a cylinder that's off, request a leakdown test. It will tell you if the compression is coming out the intake valve, or the exhaust valve, or past the rings, etc...

Excellent suggestion - thank you. I'll ask for the leakdown test.

 

[mark_m]

I'm sorry, but a 4 cylinder engine with one completely dead cylinder will be massively noticeable. Possible faulty compression tester?? I'd be retrieving the boat, checking the compressions myself, and taking it out for a water test. That engine would barely even want to run, much less generate any power/rpm's. I'm not saying anyone's trying to screw you, I'm just saying something doesn't add up. I'm not a big fan of compression tests, they're not as accurate as leakdown tests. If you do have a cylinder that's off, request a leakdown test. It will tell you if the compression is coming out the intake valve, or the exhaust valve, or past the rings, etc...

It may not be as noticeable as you think. I’ve changed plugs and forgot to click in a coil before and only noticed because she wasn’t able to rev to 10k. Wouldn’t go past 7200.

 

[Scottintexas]

. Says it's in bad shape and they can't repair/rebuild it.

did they tell you what they saw that made it appear so "bad" ?? couldn't a bad head gasket cause no pressure on a cylinder ?

 

[dgfreeze]

It may not be as noticeable as you think. I’ve changed plugs and forgot to click in a coil before and only noticed because she wasn’t able to rev to 10k. Wouldn’t go past 7200.

the dynamics might be different with a second engine relieving a lot of the load. It could “hide” some of the glaring signs, and make it less noticeable, perhaps. But that said, the OP stated nothing was wrong, no difference in rpm, good power, good speed…. There has to be a disconnect somewhere, things just aren’t adding up to me. A dead cylinder will at a minimum, create a noticeable difference in rpm output. Even for someone who’s not mechanically inclined, that’s a pretty significant indication of an issue.

 

[netcourt]

the dynamics might be different with a second engine relieving a lot of the load. It could “hide” some of the glaring signs, and make it less noticeable, perhaps. But that said, the OP stated nothing was wrong, no difference in rpm, good power, good speed…. There has to be a disconnect somewhere, things just aren’t adding up to me. A dead cylinder will at a minimum, create a noticeable difference in rpm output. Even for someone who’s not mechanically inclined, that’s a pretty significant indication of an issue.

Just to reinforce your point - absolutely no noticeable difference in output or power. I can put both engines at the same RPMs and it'll track straight as an arrow, especially in calm water. Full throttle they're running at the same RPMs and humming like it wants to stay there.

 

[Yambers]

As reputable as a dealer might be, they might be looking to make as much money as possible to offset the loss of revenue from sales.

 

[Beachbummer]

I would rescue that boat stat before they touch it again. I hope I'm wrong, but few things more harmful to boats than incompetent mechanic. Reporting zero compression on fine running boat is HIGHLY suspect.

 

[adrianp89]

Why were they looking at this in the first place?

 

[dgfreeze]

As reputable as a dealer might be, they might be looking to make as much money as possible to offset the loss of revenue from sales.

While I haven't investigated myself, It seems like most dealers are so backed up with service work that if you experience a failure at this point of the year, you might be out for the season, so I wouldn't think they're searching for failures? Take the easy money on a service, and move to the next one. And I also wouldn't describe anyone who fabricates a blown engine to be reputable... Not saying that's what is going on here, there's just too many unknowns and variables, and the whole situation stinks to high heaven. I would be retrieving my baby as quickly as possible. I trust nobody to work on her as much as myself, and these boats are super easy.

 

[netcourt]

Why were they looking at this in the first place?

Among other smaller items (scupper replacement, ballast bag repair, bilge float switch install, battery switch install, etc.) - I wanted them to investigate why the No Wake Mode wasn't working, and if there was a mechanical issue related to the throttle. I have a very hard time making subtle adjustments to speed. The boat wants to go from 3000 rpms to 7000 with just a small move on the throttle. "Feathering" the speed is very hard, and makes it challenging moving around the docks. I'm a jet boat newbie, granted, and I'm learning - but controlling the speed is harder than mastering the steering in and of itself. First thing I hear after they start to investigate is this - and that I "need to replace the engine."

 

[netcourt]

Here's an update after conversations I had today:
- I didn't notice any difference in RPMs or performance between the two engines because BOTH had cylinders not firing. The Port side was due to a bad spark plug. The Starboard side is due to the rust/corrosion, etc. of one cylinder.
- The corrosion/rust in cylinder 4 seems to be isolated to just that cylinder. The others on the Starboard engine have good compression and are in good shape. (How is that possible??)
- Tech said that somehow water got inside that cylinder causing the problem. If that's true - then wouldn't water then also make it's way to the other cylinders? Wouldn't it cause significant performance otherwise? The engine still starts right up and seeming was running fine despite one piston not firing.
- The tech/shop haven't taken the entire head off the engine yet to see the extent of the rusty cylinder. Said it's about 4 hours of labor to do so. For now, they're going to stick a scope camera down through to see what they can see using the scope. Hope to NOT see gouges or damage to the cylinder wall.
- Can the cylinder be rebuilt if the rust can be cleaned up and seals, etc replaced? Can these be rebored or re-lined and rebuilt? Trying to think of alternatives.
- Talked with outfit I bought the boat from in Georgia. They will do nothing - said the sale was "as is." Still - they said the shop that serviced the boat from the original owner before they put it up for sale "would have" caught anything that significant. Not sure about that at this point.

 

[WREKS]

I think, to start, you would be well served to bring your boat home and let the members here assist you in diagnosing the problem. It may just be a one-off occurrence from improperly flushing. If you are somewhat mechanically inclined, all the things the shop was/is going to do, you could do, with the help the this forum.

 

[netcourt]

I think, to start, you would be well served to bring your boat home and let the members here assist you in diagnosing the problem. It may just be a one-off occurrence from improperly flushing. If you are somewhat mechanically inclined, all the things the shop was/is going to do, you could do, with the help the this forum.

Sadly I'm not so inclined. Not unintelligent, just never got into mechanics. At minimum, I'm starting to call around to see where there may be other shops that I could take for 2nd/3rd opinions.

 

[jlcj7]

Seems weird. If both engines had a cylinder down that would be even more noticeable I would think vs. not noticeable at all.