Video: Yamaha throttle slipping from 2nd detent using No Wake Mode

[haknslash]

A member had messaged me that his AR192 throttle will slip out of the 2nd detent if using No Wake Mode and he was going to have his dealer look at it while he was getting them to winterize. I never use the second detent because it doesn't utilize TDE like the first detent is used for. But I was curious if mine would slip out as well so I decided to test that last weekend. Sure enough it does. I know you can take apart the throttle housing and tighten the tension screw but to be honest I doubt I will even do that as I simply don't use the 2nd detent so this is a non-issue for me. However I felt it's good info to show people are not alone if they have this issue with their new boats.

Without looking into this further I would suspect 2 things are at play here. 1. The bucket (slop) may need to be slightly adjusted. 2. The throttle tension screw could be adjusted inside the housing. Reason I think my bucket may need to be adjusted is because sometimes if I'm just past the 2nd detent and (very) slowly add throttle I can feel a pulsating from the lever. What I think i'm feeling is just the bottom edge of the bucket being blast with jet thrust. As you add more throttle the bucket will raise enough out of the way so that it's away from the thrust and opening of the nozzle entirely. My boat has been like that since day 1 but I always forget to look into this as it's such a rare time it happens or that I slowly add in that much throttle that it's noticeable. I'll look into adjusting my bucket in the winter.

 

[Scottintexas]

I'm not sure since this is a newer boat, the older boats had slipping throttle issues and this was a cure,
from our FAQ
https://jetboaters.net/threads/throttle-dropping-check-here.299/#post-2412

 

[haknslash]

Yes that's why I mentioned you can adjust the "tension screw". I would suspect (and hope) the 1.8L boats have them just like the older ones did. Seems the same problem. If someone on here with a 1.8L that has pulled apart their housing to see if there is a tension screw would confirm that would be great to know for others.

 

[Scottintexas]

I think speedling's fix was more than just adjusting the tension screw, that was tried and didn't solve it.

 

[haknslash]

Personally I think mine is more reverse gate/bucket than throttle tension but the reality is it's likely a mixture of both. The fact I can feel pulses and see movement in the throttle if I turn the boat and slowly apply more throttle beyond the second detent tells me my gate is still not fully out of the way and is likely leaving an edge exposed to get hit by turbulent jet of water. At least my theory on it since I can feel movement and we know there are no moving parts in terms of gears or transmission.

 

[viper15]

I'd bet you are right with the bucket needing adjustment. My 2017 AR195 does not have that issue at all. It will stay in either detent when using the no-wake mode.

 

[druppert]

My 195 has both problems, the slip out of 2nd decent as well as the pulsating. I can keep it from slipping by bringing it out of the throttle (past 2nd detent) very slowly to the point where it drops to idle but has not “clicked” into the 2nd detent.

However, I have not found a solution to the pulsing of the throttle. I know the bucket is completely out of the jet stream because when I slowly pull back it stays all the way up, as opposed to hanging down slightly if I go to the 2nd detent from neutral.

@haknslash do you have any ideas for reducing bucket slop? I took a look at it but there are spacers which seem to prevent a simple tightening of the bolts. I thought of installing some nylon washers but that doesn’t seem to be a durable long term solution.

 

[haknslash]

Holy crap guys!!

Looking through the service manual I found there is a friction adjustment screw located off the back of the throttle housing! This is great as you won't have to tear into the housing like on the older models! Note it says "Turn the friction screw so that the operation....and the lever remains in position when it is released". Hmm looks like I'm going to have to make another boat trip before winter to see if I fixed it.






Also this is the periodic maintenance section of checking the right gap for the bucket. I will check mine to see if I'm within spec and let y'all know.

 

[druppert]

I found that the “perfect” bucket adjustment for mine is 1/2 of a rotation of the adjustment screw so I cannot get an absolutely perfect neutral. However, I decided to settle for a slow creep backwards rather than a slow creep forward since the boat has far less control that way so the steering wheel position is not as important to keep the boat straight. That may change when I get my Lateral Thruster. Just something to consider when adjusting the bucket gap.

 

[druppert]

I tightened the friction screw & while I would definitely recommend this to anyone with throttle drop, this doesn’t help with the lack of tension in the idle positions. I opened up the throttle control box & I will see if there’s anything that can be tightened inside. If I have any luck I’ll try to document what I did.

 

[druppert]

I took the throttle control apart & the only part of the bucket control cable that can be adjusted was the circled 10mm bolt in the pic. This bolt was finger loose which made me very optimistic that this was the source of the issue we’ve been discussing. Unfortunately when I put it back together there was no discernible change in the friction between the 1st & 2nd detents. Maybe mine is as good as it gets. Mine does not fully disengage as @haknslash video but it will eventually droop down & block the jet stream.

In order to access this bolt I had to push the throttle cable assembly (1) out of the way to access the bucket cable assembly (2). For good measure I highlighted the inside of the tension adjustment assembly (3) that can be performed from the access plug in the back of the control. Now it makes sense why this doesn’t have an affect on the bucket friction.

Maybe someone more mechanically inclined than myself will go further than me, into the white plastic assembly at the top of the pic, to see if anything can be adjusted in there. If anything in there is spring loaded I don’t want to find out the hard way.

 

[gmtech16450yz]

I haven't liked the throttles in my '17 212 since the very first time I put it in the water. Damn near launched it into the dock because you can't tell where the throttle starts. I tried tightening up the tension and it just made it from totally vague to overly sticky. It's just a cr@ppy design, plain and simple.

I was going to open up my throttles and see what I could do to them, thinking I could go extreme with maybe replacing some of those cam wheels with bearings or even machine better parts, but I don't think I'm going to bother. I like and understand the simplicity of forward is forward and back is back with throttle applied both ways, but the downside is the throttle range. The limited amount of travel once you get the buckets open or closed simply doesn't leave enough room for good throttle control. So what you end up with is too sensitive initial travel. And it's worse when you can't even tell where the start of the throttle opening range is. I've had this new boat out 6 times now, and I've already had 3 situations where I ended up giving it an obnoxious burst of throttle either because I thought I was still in the bucket movement part of the travel, or the initial throttle movement was just too touchy. Sooner or later I think it's gonna cause an accident.

Let's just say I REALLY don't like the throttles in these boats. My wife even says they feel like plastic toy handles! Actually, pretty much everyone that's driven my boat so far has mentioned the throttles. And the throttle drop-back and having to hold them forward when going WOT is annoying. I know there's a "fix" for that, but it wouldn't fix all the other issues.

So Monday I'm calling the guys at Livorsi and talking to them about using one of their controls on a Yamaha. I do R&D for companies on stuff like this, I'm hoping they're up for working with me on possibly building a "kit" for the Yamaha's. Their controls aren't cheap, but they clearly do not look cheap either. I doubt they work like a cheap plastic POS like the stock Yamaha ones do either. The biggest difference is separate forward and reverse handles. The biggest advantage to that is you can then have FULL RANGE THROTTLES. So down on the throttles is actually idle and full forward is actually WOT. And a nice wide range of movement all the way through too. I wasn't so sure about the idea until I saw you can have the throttles on one side and the F/R levers on the other. I like that much better than having the throttles in the center and the F/R levers on the sides.

And here's another thought, what about ditching the throttle cables all together and having the kit relocate your throttle position sensors from the engine compartment up to the throttle levers themselves! Yikes! Let's not jump into the '80's too soon! haha. I'd like to talk to the guy that thought running cables to sensors 10 feet away was a good idea.

Anyway, I think it might work really well on our boats, I'll find out more tomorrow. Just for kicks, how likely would any of you guys be in wanting to spend somewhere between $1000 and $1500 on something like this? Here's the website. There's others too, Teleflex makes some nice throttle/trans controls too.

http://www.livorsi.com/catalog/controls_platinum.htm

 

[druppert]

I’d like to see an electronic throttle control adapted from the e-series boats. I’m not a fan of mechanical links in throttle applications in general. I’ll sacrifice the increased reliability of a mechanical link for the smoothness of operation of an electronic control. I’d gladly hand over a grand for that.

 

[haknslash]

@gmtech16450yz a few members have gone the Gaffrig control route. I've driven @Bill D's 242 Limited with them and they are night and day compared to stock Yamaha controls. His has individual levers and control for both buckets and the throttle for each engine, so it allows for a lot of control and maneuvering options that you can't get with stock controls. Take a look into them. They ain't cheap though

@druppert I thought the E-series boats still use some mechanical linkages or parts? I'm sure someone will correct me but I want to say they aren't fully electronic. Thanks for tearing into your throttle and posting the pic. Hopefully we can't find the fix. I doubt a dealer will go to this level and will chalk it up as "they all do it".

 

[druppert]

@haknslash i have no idea about the design of the e-series. I assumed it was fully electronic. Otherwise it sounds like the worst of both worlds (less reliable & less precise/smooth). Oh well, at least she still floats.

 

[gmtech16450yz]

E series throttles do not have throttle cables, the position sensors are right in the throttle assembly. There's a chance simply buying the E series control and running the wires from the APS in the engine compartment to the throttle control would work, but I'm not sure that's really going to be enough for me. I really don't like the super short lever range to be able to control engine speed. I'm going to pull the control out of my boat today and either mod it or buy a completely new unit with separate throttles and forward/reverse controls. I'm working on getting a new unit right now, I think that's the best approach.

BTW the Gaffrig units look ok, they don't look quite as good as the Teleflex/Morse or Livorsi units though.

 

[Beachbummer]

I replaced my controls on an sx230 with gaffrig. Difference in control is incredible.

 

[Beachbummer]

I got mine used.

Something like this

https://m.ebay.com/itm/GAFFRIG-ENGINE-CONTROL-Throttle-Shift/182892859038?hash=item2a95438e9e:g:lZYAAOSwO9JZ9HU8

 

[Neutron]

I like the simplicity of the stock throttles. And when giving the controls to someone else it makes it less confusing for them.
Mutiple levers will confuse most when not familiar

I would like to see if there is some "mod" for the stock setup to make them better.

 

[Beachbummer]

The challenge with the stock controls is that you have very little travel to control a range of 7-8800rpm (depending on the boat)

Even with it working as best as it can, that design constraint is just hard to overcome. These look to me very much like the outboard version (where they work great, we had the same on a 90s twin 140hp outboard) that was grabbed from the parts bin to lower cost.

Bear in mind that limitation.

Best of luck.