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***WARNING*** 2015-18 YAMAHA “AR” BOAT OWNERS WITH FORWARD SWEPT WAKEBOARD TOWERS

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by swatski, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. Chip F.

    Chip F. Jet Boat Addict

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Schuylkill Haven, PA
    Ratings:
    +146 / 5
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    SX
    Boat Length:
    24
    All it would have taken was someone stepping up and doing the right thing and cover it under warranty. Now they add insult to injury and that's were all the fun begins!
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. skrip345

    skrip345 Jetboaters Lieutenant

    Messages:
    253
    Location:
    Sedalia, MO
    Ratings:
    +321 / 0
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    Limited S
    Boat Length:
    24
    Its GOT to be an oversight by Yamaha. They tested it for loads behind the boat, not forward. Cross threads or not (though I seriously doubt that's the issue here, @swatski doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to feel a cross thread starting and keep blasting away) this should not be possible. Additionally, he went WAY out of the way to bring the tower and pieces home. For Yamaha to give him the middle finger and refuse any level of ownership here is a slap in the face. At least fix his boat and make an effort to make him whole.

    I don't know about you guys, but the Bimini trip is a dream trip, that WILL be happening for me in the future. It has a LARGE part in why I purchased a Yamaha. If its proven to your customers that their BEST selling 24' boats are unsafe in this manner, and shrug a guy off that has surely sold some boats for you, you're asking for bad press. That's what this thread is...
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Betik

    Betik Jetboaters Captain

    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Frisco, TX
    Ratings:
    +2,844 / 47
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2012
    Boat Model:
    SX
    Boat Length:
    24
    I am sitting on this conference call and it is almost identical to one we had last week. And then it hit me.
    Wasn't Yamaha saying that operators were not locking the plugs correctly?
     
  4. 4wheeldeal

    4wheeldeal Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Kingston Ontario
    Ratings:
    +52 / 1
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR192
    Boat Length:
    19
    Dido, Yamaha doesn't care which kinda pisses me off.
     
  5. Bruce

    Bruce Jetboaters Fleet Admiral Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    10,977
    Location:
    Royal, AR
    Ratings:
    +10,682 / 95
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2007
    Boat Model:
    SX
    Boat Length:
    23
    @Williamsone46, correct me if I am wrong but I believe the mount is aluminum. If so the female aluminum threads stripped out of the mount. Aluminum is a good material for light weight rigid structures, it is not a good material for threads. My guess is that the same hull flex (deflection) that allows for the center windshield section to lodge or break also causes stress on the tower mounts and specifically on those threads.

    I saw his boat and know Dr. Swat well enough to know that his boat was perfect, in better condition than when she left the factory, before departing for Bimini.

    So far #Yamaha is missing an opportunity to build customer loyalty and turning it into a customer relations and sales nightmare.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  6. swatski

    swatski Jetboaters Fleet Admiral

    Messages:
    8,326
    Location:
    Saint Louis, MO
    Ratings:
    +9,004 / 136
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    24
    Thanks, this is a very good point.

    Believe me, I have made a significant effort to be "quick to listen, slow to speak" on the subject of assigning responsibility, at least initially and up to a point. And if Yamaha simply told me: "dude, you should not have been there, doing that, these boats are not built for that" etc. - I would totally have taken a very soft tack. We were out there in very rough weather, and that was a huge factor.

    But instead, what Yamaha is telling me is: "the bolt has been cross threaded"...

    Seriously???? Then, let me ask you this: who did it? Me? Dealer? Factory? People who tried to help right my tower up after it collapsed?

    Also, I could find NO warnings (zero) about dangers of cross threading those AR tower bolts in Yamaha manual(s). Where are the warnings of cross thread danger? How am I supposed to know?Would you know if your tower lock bolts are cross threaded, or not? How do you tell?


    Besides, this is NOT about money, for me. I am very fortunate to be in a position that I own this boat out right and I can ditch it and move on - I am so much more interested in having a fun family recreational product I can use and abuse. I did not however pay my money to deal with this nonsense, when I could afford any boat in Yamaha lineup.

    In fact I have offered money to Yamaha and offered to pay them to upgrade my tower:
    during one of the first conversations with them, while I was still in Bimini, I said: "get me an X-like tower, I will pay the difference". I even offered to trade in my boat and pay the difference to get into a model with an X-like tower if the AR can not be retrofitted. Guess what? - they said no.

    And that is what I don't understand.

    Right now, I just feel kind surprised and not sure if they are really so stupid. But I don't really care. I do not report to Yamaha, I report to my wife and my children. And they will not sit under that tower.

    --
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. swatski

    swatski Jetboaters Fleet Admiral

    Messages:
    8,326
    Location:
    Saint Louis, MO
    Ratings:
    +9,004 / 136
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    24
    Yes, at least as judged by presence of debris on both sides of the stern/upholstery/swim platform. The strbd side might have given out first, I think. But it was a sudden event, the collapse.

    I believe Yamaha rep cited "a bolt" cross threaded, not "bolts", but that is where I would like to see a copy of their report.

    --
     
  8. Neutron

    Neutron Jetboaters Lieutenant

    Messages:
    1,227
    Location:
    New Bern, NC
    Ratings:
    +1,230 / 14
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    24
    @swatski , you are handling it way better than me. regardless of how, when, if, the threads were cross-threaded Yamaha should not be using a system that could be so easily Crossthreaded on something as dangerous as a falling tower. Even if that is in fact the reason why the tower fell. This whole situation really sucks
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. jsimanskey

    jsimanskey Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2017
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    19
    I agree this seems dangerous. They do know there will be load imposed opposite of the towing stresses - anyone who deploys a bimini top will be stressing the connections forward in the right conditions (though the fabric should hopefully give way first). I had a pretty thorough delivery recently and was not warned of the dangers of cross threading, though I suppose now I won't be able to rightfully claim ignorance. I don't really need to collapse my tower so I don't see a lot of wear imposed by me, but I am leaning towards supplementing with some sort of pin or bolt. Or finding a way to reinforce below the aluminum base with a stronger washer/nut from below somehow - I don't know how feasible that is but won't have the opportunity to look closely until I get up to my cabin in another week unfortunately.
     
  10. jcyamaharider

    jcyamaharider Event Sponsor Event Sponsor

    Messages:
    4,562
    Location:
    Gerald, Mo
    Ratings:
    +3,919 / 12
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2017
    Boat Model:
    242X E-Series
    Boat Length:
    24
    So working in manufacturing it is told to management that you need to make something to where I monkey could do it. If there is a point of failure even possible the design needs looked at. I understand that even accidents happen but choosing a threaded connection to hold the tower down is simply not a good option. Not looking at Yamaha because I know they do not design the towers. You are introducing something that wears every time the connection is made or loosened. The threaded connection is fine as long as there is a supplement lock to ensure a back up incase of a failure. Even my wake board rack has a back up option. If the handle unscrews it is still help in by a pin as to not loose it in the water.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  11. 4wheeldeal

    4wheeldeal Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Kingston Ontario
    Ratings:
    +52 / 1
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    AR192
    Boat Length:
    19

    Just have a locking bolt as well done no issues. Mine was cross-threaded when I first lowered it took me half an hour to put it back together. It was one of the issues that I took it back for warranty on.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  12. adrianp89

    adrianp89 Jet Boat Junkie

    Messages:
    1,281
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Ratings:
    +654 / 20
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2017
    Boat Model:
    SX
    Boat Length:
    21
    Are there Yamaha reps on this forum? I know on the Dodge/Ram forums they have manufacture reps that chime in to help with issues.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  13. jcyamaharider

    jcyamaharider Event Sponsor Event Sponsor

    Messages:
    4,562
    Location:
    Gerald, Mo
    Ratings:
    +3,919 / 12
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2017
    Boat Model:
    242X E-Series
    Boat Length:
    24
    I bet there is in the back ground. Yamaha you need to step up and do the right thing here. I bet we ( jetboaters.net members ) sell your boats more then you do. Just last week at the gathering @Julian and myself, along with some others, Were having a good conversation with a guy that seen us all pull up. We were the group to be with and everyone had questions. ( Sorry about that flag again Julian..... :( ) Having good customer satisfaction and a good product is key.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Betik

    Betik Jetboaters Captain

    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Frisco, TX
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    +2,844 / 47
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    Year:
    2012
    Boat Model:
    SX
    Boat Length:
    24
    @Williamsone46 please forgive my fury. I hate bickering and especially internet bickering.
    Swatski might be at the ACCEPTANCE stage, but I am still at the ANGER stage of grief and you obviously are still on the DENIAL Stage. I cannot blame you, deep inside of me I pray this was all Swatski's fault, so my kids will be safe on our future AR.

    I am glad to see you are analyzing my sentence structure and implication that posts do no equal warranty. For better of worse, I build profitability & risk scorecards for living. And yes the long term impact a 4000 post man can have on profitability is more than $2,000 worth of tower. My suggestion was based on expected losses. Didn't you see the guy from Chicago wondering if he should return his 2 weeks old boat ?

    Please understand that my frustration is not directed towards you, but rather Yamaha. Unfortunately you are the closest person to a yamaha rep at this moment. Although, I am 100% you sure are just trying to be rational about it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Ancient canoe

    Ancient canoe Jet Boat Addict

    Messages:
    320
    Ratings:
    +243 / 1
    Boat Make:
    Boatless
    Year:
    NA
    Boat Model:
    242 Limited S E-Series
    Boat Length:
    NA
    This seems very similar to the plug blowout posts and as far as I can read Yamaha never did anything about that as well, other than redesign years later. Granted there is only one instance of tower collapse here, and horrible conditions which 99% will never be in played a role. The fact that the other towers have secondary locking pins just goes to show you two bolts are not enough. I mean would Yamaha recommend an LS or X owner disengage their pins and cruise around? Are the LS/X towers heavier than the AR that they require secondary pins?
     
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Jetboaters Fleet Admiral Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    10,977
    Location:
    Royal, AR
    Ratings:
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    Boat Make:
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    Year:
    2007
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    SX
    Boat Length:
    23
    A plug blowout could swamp your boat and destroy your engines but is unlikely to break your back or neck.,

    It was rough but not that rough. I have often crossed larger wakes on a lake than the waves we were in.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Ancient canoe

    Ancient canoe Jet Boat Addict

    Messages:
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    Ratings:
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    Year:
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    Boat Model:
    242 Limited S E-Series
    Boat Length:
    NA
    I mean Yamaha's response to an obvious design flaw is similar not the results are similar. Clearly a collapsing tower is a more serious issue as the physical injury potential is scary.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. Betik

    Betik Jetboaters Captain

    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Frisco, TX
    Ratings:
    +2,844 / 47
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2012
    Boat Model:
    SX
    Boat Length:
    24
    I know right, had swatski been half an inch backwards, we could been attending a funeral these days. That rear part of our head is not meant to take such blows, defiantly not in the middle of a storm and 25 miles from the closest ER.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Slfmde

    Slfmde Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    103
    Ratings:
    +58 / 0
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2017
    Boat Model:
    AR
    Boat Length:
    24
    I'm assuming 18's have the same design? Just talked to dealer today and was considering putting down a deposit. Guess I will wait, I have two small kids can't risk it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Michael Rasmussen

    Michael Rasmussen Jet Boat Addict

    Messages:
    677
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Ratings:
    +202 / 3
    Boat Make:
    Yamaha
    Year:
    2016
    Boat Model:
    242X E-Series
    Boat Length:
    24
    If there is a positive here, it could have been worse, luckily there wasn't an injury serious enough to kill someone. I can imagine your family was traumatized by that incident, I'm sorry you guys had to deal with that.

    I wouldn't expect bouncing on waves to bring down the tower, regardless of how rough it is. I would hope Yamaha's testing was much more rigorous than that but who knows.

    Did you feel the waves were dangerous? Were you nervous about just "making it" (not about the tower coming down). I can imaging my daughter telling me I'm an idiot for going out in rough weather lol
     
    • Agree Agree x 3

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