Water in Oil

[Keith Andoos]

Guess what I found in my 2006 SX230 HO starboard engine: water in the oil! My neighbor said, "I've been working on diesel, gas and marine engines for 40 years, this is no big deal!" He tore into that engine and I could tell right away by his methodical mannerisms that he knew what was what. Head: good Head gasket: good, but while its apart lets replace it. Thermostats on both engines: clogged with salt!!! And I run fresh water through the engines EVERY TIME I come home after a day on the water. I use salt away once a month. I have a guy welding up the corroded section (he can weld aluminum) but, how much does a new exhaust manifold cost? My friend already showed me the head, its on his workbench. Clean as a whistle, and he's putting in new shims and measuring the cam clearances. Oh, and valves on number three cylinder: burned. New valves going in. I called Georgia and they pleaded ignorance, so I'm writing to Japan. I have had tremendous luck that way: the Japanese really care! (My brother once received a coupon for a brand new Toshiba 30" monitor ((back in the day)) after the local guys could not repair his TV). I'll keep you all posted!

 

[itsdgm]

That's a bummer @Keith Andoos Were you able to figure out where the water came from?

 

[fairpilot]

Ahh i hope you read my story and looked to manifold first. Still a mystery why this is happening to manifold, my theroy is salt a way, and you used it only makes me feel stronger that is the cause

 

[txav8r]

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear about your issues! But like @fairpilot , my first concern is not using salt away or similar EVERY time you come out of salt water. And a 30 minute flush is probably needed. You have two issues going on here. One, clogged passages due to salt. The second and more serious, water intrusion. So far, other than the head gasket, I haven't read anything related to where that may be getting in the oil. If it has overheated, the head gasket may be good, but any warp in that head could explain how the water is getting in the oil. So replacing the gasket may not fix that if it is still warped. The number 3 cylinder runs warm on the MR-1, and it is most likely to be the cylinder that gets the abuse if water is not blown from the exhaust manifold after being in the water or on the hose. If water sits in the exhaust section between the water box and the engine, the water vapor travels back to the engine and it is generally the #3 exhaust valve that takes the brunt of that when the engine isn't running. Once again, welcome to the forum, and keep us posted on your discoveries and fixes!

 

[CrankyGypsy]

So far, other than the head gasket, I haven't read anything related to where that may be getting in the oil.

i had one of the four short manifold cooling lines coming off the plastic rail below the airbox spring a leak - it was a laser-fine stream (hard to notice) continually pumping directly into the airbox. the OEM air filter soaked it up, saturated, and allowed water in through the intake, past combustion, and into the case oil.

 

[CrankyGypsy]

i just saw/replied to your more recent post over at YJB...

@Keith Andoos , when you say "header" are you referring to the manifold or the collector?
salt or fresh water?

your exhaust deterioration: not many of us have actually torn them down, but i suspect this is more prevalent in us salt-goers than we are aware. both of my manifolds were on the verge (so i replaced them) and i have lately begun wondering if one of my collectors has a leak somewhere (the collector is far enough away from the cylinders that i am not overly concerned with it right now). some are blaming Salt-A-Away for this, but i am more apt to first blame salt getting left in there and slowly breaking down the aluminum - the salt-damaged aluminum, which is off-color and softer, is then further attacked by the Salt-A-Way. if the boat is in salt, there's really no way to guarantee this damage won't happen. why? because all of the salt is nearly impossible to flush out, even with Salt-A-Away ...or pure Sulfamic Acid, for that matter. and if you had a previous owner that didn't bother to flush properly (like i suspect mine), you're behind the eight ball.

i'm not sure welding is the answer (or if possible) because there's probably more damage. you can find clean ones pulled from fresh-water vessels on eBay.

 

[Peter Lukasavage]

So I took my boat out one day about 1 month before I was going to take it to the keys for a week, boat ran great to whole time. I got home and decided to change the oil. Took out dipstick and engine was loaded with water, View attachment 88 oil was like milk, needless to say I knew right away big issue. I ran to store and got like 3 gallons of oil and started changing it, run engine then change it over and over getting all the water out I could.

I figured Yamaha would charge me a fortune so I solicited a big name local school that specializes in motorcycle, ATV and Watercraft repair. Called them they put me in touch with main instructor. He came to my house was impressed with condition of boat and clean motors, told me all about the engines how good they are really built confidence in me that he was well capable to repair boat. He would do it personally. Took boat to his place and tore it apart, couple days later I stopped by, showed me motor and told me I overheated it and warped the head. I thought “really’ Boat ran fine, no warning of overheat at all. Anyhow I figured he new what was up. So replaced head gasket, machined head and put back together, still leaking water into engine. Took apart again and took head to the school, called me and said the head had a crack in it and would need to be replaced, I drove 6 hrs and got a new one(remanufactured) put it all back together and still leaking water. Took head off and sent back to company for testing because he swore it was cracked in valve guide, got new head and still leaked, all this time engine never would run.

So one day its all apart again in my garage and I’m just sitting there looking at parts and look at exhaust manifold and it has a corroded spot in #3 cylinder. There is my water leak. Replaced that and could never get engine to run hardly, I was told to take it out and run it so I did and it was not pretty, very noisy, so They took it apart, not the cylinders are all scratched and valves had been hitting pistons. I told them they are done don’t touch another thing.

Finally, a $300 dollar part cost me almost 5 grand and a year of no use. Finally put a new motor in it and had Yamaha do the work. Lesson learned I should have taken to dealer first

So if you ever have water in oil, please please pull the manifold off and check it thoroughly for corrosion. And save yourself a major headache.View attachment 87View attachment 88View attachment 89

I have a 2005 SX230 HO and I think I may have this condition on my starboard engine since I am getting water in the oil. Does anyone know what is the best way to remove the exhaust manifolds? I tried starting it and was thinking maybe you need to lift the motor to get at all the bolts or do you just take off the entire exhaust pipe in one piece if you can get to all the manifold bolts? Any help is appreciated. thanks

 

[fairpilot]

That's the harder side due to no room. Prob have to pull motor. And verify it's maifold. I would also check port side, but you can prob get that one while it's in boat. My other side was on the verge of leaking also. Do you boat in salt or use salt away to flush

 

[Peter Lukasavage]

That's the harder side due to no room. Prob have to pull motor. And verify it's maifold. I would also check port side, but you can prob get that one while it's in boat. My other side was on the verge of leaking also. Do you boat in salt or use salt away to flush

I bought the boat new in 2005 and it’s used in salt water hundred percent of the time thanks for the input I knew that it did not look easy I do use salt away.

 

[fairpilot]

Man I swear the salt away is causing this problem. This is 3rd or 4 case. I think the salt a way is doing something to the aluminum. Do you always rinse the salt a way out or have you let it sit in motors.
I use to use it faithfully and some times I would flush with then just shut down thinking I would be doing some good to help dissolve any salt in engine. Instead I believe it attacked the aluminum in any little casting pits.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Man I swear the salt away is causing this problem. This is 3rd or 4 case. I think the salt a way is doing something to the aluminum. Do you always rinse the salt a way out or have you let it sit in motors.
I use to use it faithfully and some times I would flush with then just shut down thinking I would be doing some good to help dissolve any salt in engine. Instead I believe it attacked the aluminum in any little casting pits.

Should be easy to test that theory.... get some aluminum and let it sit in a solution of salt-a-way. I have seen lots of aluminum damage from salt since moving to SW Florida so there is no doubt in my mind that salt is the major component. I would like to see how well the water flows through these jackets in the flushing compared to while running on the water.

 

[swatski]

Man I swear the salt away is causing this problem. This is 3rd or 4 case. I think the salt a way is doing something to the aluminum. Do you always rinse the salt a way out or have you let it sit in motors.
I use to use it faithfully and some times I would flush with then just shut down thinking I would be doing some good to help dissolve any salt in engine. Instead I believe it attacked the aluminum in any little casting pits.

This is interesting! I wonder though if penetration of the Salt Away when flushing on a hose is a problem.
There was a discussion recently of whether or not adding a shut-off valve in the exhaust intake would permit a better flush (on the hose) - by preventing a flushing solution from running away through the exhaust without passing through the engine/exhaust manifold passages.

Maybe that is the issue!

I agree with @Murf'n'surf. But, a better test might be to drop two pieces of metal in the saltwater every day, take them out and rinse one down with freshwater and the other with Salt Away. See what the difference is after a while, as far as any corrosion.
Metal siting in saltwater is going to corrode, we know that.

--

 

[Boyd95]

Wonder if this could be my issue as well. About a month ago I dropped off my 08 Sx230 at the yamaha dealer to get the oil changed and winterized. A couple days later I get a call from them saying my port engine is loaded with water in the oil. They stated they changed the oil twice to get most of it out and took it on a sea trial. They give me a call back saying all is good and the water did not come back and it could have been a one time fluke. So fast forward a month I finally get time to going to the shop to pick up the boat (this saturday). I drive it back to my marina and the first thing I do is check the oil and it still is milky. So I call them back and tell them Im dropping it back off and want them to change the oil a few more times until its gone. So now my concern is how much damage was caused by the boat sitting for a little over a month with milky oil and a couple of nights have gone below freezing. Ive always flushed properly after every use and I checked the oil every other weekend all throughout the summer and never noticed any water at all in either engines. These are low hour motors with around 90 hours. I would hate to have to replace a motor that has been running great all summer, i just bought the boat in the spring so this is pretty discouraging. Any tips are greatly appreciated.
Thank you

 

[Scottintexas]

Wonder if this could be my issue as well. About a month ago I dropped off my 08 Sx230 at the yamaha dealer to get the oil changed and winterized. A couple days later I get a call from them saying my port engine is loaded with water in the oil. They stated they changed the oil twice to get most of it out and took it on a sea trial. They give me a call back saying all is good and the water did not come back and it could have been a one time fluke. So fast forward a month I finally get time to going to the shop to pick up the boat (this saturday). I drive it back to my marina and the first thing I do is check the oil and it still is milky. So I call them back and tell them Im dropping it back off and want them to change the oil a few more times until its gone. So now my concern is how much damage was caused by the boat sitting for a little over a month with milky oil and a couple of nights have gone below freezing. Ive always flushed properly after every use and I checked the oil every other weekend all throughout the summer and never noticed any water at all in either engines. These are low hour motors with around 90 hours. I would hate to have to replace a motor that has been running great all summer, i just bought the boat in the spring so this is pretty discouraging. Any tips are greatly appreciated.
Thank you

Boyd- I'm sorry to hear you're having problems. I would ask them how they are removing the oil because if they're just sucking it from the top they're only getting half the oil out. If I had milky oil I would be working to pull the drain plug no matter the mess it made.

Was your oil level increased or just milky. If it increased I would suspect water penetrating increase the volume. If the level is near the same I would suspect they just didn't get enough of the water/oil out.

If they were just sucking it from the top I'd be concerned about taking it back to them because that doesn't seem competent.

 

[Boyd95]

It was in between the L and the F. They said they are just taking it out from the top. I'm calling first thing in the morning to tell them to do a complete drain. they are the only place close by that services yamahas but after this experience I am a little concerned. You would think they would have done everything they can to get all the water out in the first place. If I had the knowledge and time I would try to do it myself but I don't want to mess anything up. But at this point the damage may already be done..

 

[Speedling]

It was in between the L and the F. They said they are just taking it out from the top. I'm calling first thing in the morning to tell them to do a complete drain. they are the only place close by that services yamahas but after this experience I am a little concerned. You would think they would have done everything they can to get all the water out in the first place. If I had the knowledge and time I would try to do it myself but I don't want to mess anything up. But at this point the damage may already be done..

Do a search on the members map and look for people near you that seem knowledgable and competent. Send them a message to see if anyone can help you out!

 

[Scottintexas]

they are the only place close by that services yamahas but after this experience I am a little concerned. ..

remember also, if there is a Yamaha jet ski mechanic they can help also, it's the same stuff just a bigger body, they may be hesitant at first or because they can't work on them a trolley but it might be worth talking to them,

 

[fairpilot]

When i had my problem I went and bought 2 gallon of castrol 10w30, (does not matter what weight or quality just trying to get water out for now) I sucked oil out, then ran moter for about 10 seconds (no hose) and got more out, then refilled and same thing ran motor sucked oil out ( did not put of hose) i did this several times, any water left over after that will burn off when boat is running. Please them check exhaust manifolds for corrosion around water jackets.

 

[Boyd95]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm about to call the shop it's at now and tell them not to touch it any further and take it some place else. How hard is it to remove the manifold?

 

[fairpilot]

Which motor? Port one can prob be done in boat Starboard prob will need to come out.