Water in Oil

[Murf'n'surf]

The spark plugs on #3 are notorious for rusting and seizing in the head not anything with the piston

 

[itsdgm]

That's a real bummer for both of you guys. Hopefully you'll both be up and running again real soon!!

Out of curiosity, you guys stated that you flush after each use. Do you also "dry fire" the engines after flushing too. I've found that I can get a lot of water out of the water boxes and cooling jackets days after my last outing by just firing up the engines a few times. I try my hardest to get as much water out of there before storage to prevent that water from corroding or rusting anything inside the engines. I boat only in fresh water, but I'd imagine that salt water (even after flushing) would make the potential for corrosion even greater.

 

[-klb-]

The spark plugs on #3 are notorious for rusting and seizing in the head not anything with the piston

Just saying that if you look at the photo of the head, the chambers for 1&2 have carbon build up. 3 is the cleanest, 4 is somewhere in between.

Since water flows up through the block, through the head, and out a pipe between cylinders 3&4, the head around 3 has the hot water for cylinders 1&2 flowing around it. The fact it has the least carbon build up looks to me to be confirmation that the head is hotter around cylinder 3.

I think it is the higher operating temperature of the head in contact with this plug that is accelerating the corrosion of dissimilar metals. Not anything about trends in where the valve train stops.

 

[fairpilot]

It looks cleaner because water was pumping it it and high pressure and steam cleaned all the carbon off it.

 

[fairpilot]

My water pressue at house is 60psi plenty of water, I belive the water in the head and manifold is not removed by reving engines, maybe water in xhaust box but for water in the crevices of the exhaust manifold and water jackets. My boat was 6 years old when this happened, if you boat in 60% or higher salt water just beware of this issue, ever see water in oil i would suspect this first. Trust me you will save a ton of money if you check for this first. I spent almost $5000 for mis diagnoses, shotty attempts to repair, new engine and installation from yamaha. Also I was able to buy used mainfolds off ebay, I found parts from midwest that we lake only and they look brand new. I paid $60 each yamaha wants like $500.

 

[Speedling]

I do dry fire.
I also have played around with taking out the waterbox and it really isn't too hard if you feel like it's causing issues. You'll never get all the water out. Even with a vacuum.

I wonder if you put in fogging oil a couple times a year and dry fires with it that you would have less issues.

 

[fairpilot]

Not sure how that will stop corrosing inside the water jackets on manifold

 

[Speedling]

Fogging won't help the manifold.
I was just thinking the valves and cylinder walls mainly, but actually the mist would work its way down.

 

[fairpilot]

True, fogging prob never hurts not sure if it fouls the plugs or not or if you could do it on a regular basis. I think water sits in the entire cooling system except exhaust, i dont see a way to get it out of there. Reving wont do it we dont have water pumps. So im not sure how to or what to put in there to stop corrosion. I have heard running dish soap as a final rinse but not sure.

 

[hoosaroni]

I just discovered the same hole in my exhaust manifold. Yamaha place by me blamed it on flushing without engine running. I knew that was not the reason, especially after changing the oil or at least half of it a few times. Right now it seems the valves are stuck. Going to loosen them up and check the compression. 2007 AR210 in salt water since 2010. I'll have to figure out how to get all the oil out first. Thanks for this post!! Saved me a lot of time and maybe even a new SBT engine if that missing chunk wasn't noticed, whew!

 

[Scottintexas]

@hoosaroni glad to have you on board, sorry to hear about your problem but glad we were able to help. Update your profile with your location so we know where you are.

to drain the oil check this thread https://jetboaters.net/threads/oil-change-on-mr-1-how-to-perform-a-complete-drain.3805/

 

[hoosaroni]

@hoosaroni glad to have you on board, sorry to hear about your problem but glad we were able to help. Update your profile with your location so we know where you are.

to drain the oil check this thread https://jetboaters.net/threads/oil-change-on-mr-1-how-to-perform-a-complete-drain.3805/

I knew they had to have one, thanks!

 

[Big Shasta]

YIKES....Ok, I'm officially scared now. My boat is an 05 and has been in salt water since day 1. I'm a thorough flusher and have been using dawn dish soap during the last 2 minutes for a couple years after hearing it from a lot of locals.

If I can find a good deal on manifolds I'll just replace them both this off season. Are the Non HOs the same as the HOs?

 

[CrankyGypsy]

my oil is clean, but i've got an external water leak i'm trying to find and have been communicating with fairpilot on the subject.
i'm going to be pulling the starboard engine soon and removing the manifold to find the leak, so we'll see what i dig up.

 

[fairpilot]

Hoosaroni, how can yamaha say that is your fault, how would flushing with engine off cause that. anyhow. What makes you think valves are stuck. I would doubt this. being they are under a lot of mechanical force. It would be worth pulling the head off and taking a look. I would also look at manifolds. As noted before I flushed like crazy after every time out. there were a couple weeks at different times of year my boat was in salt water for a week at a time. I am going to install the valves so I can flush while boat sits in water.
I actually believe all the damage to these motors is done when you shut them off with salt water in them. My theory is this, I put boat in salt water, travel to an island 10 miles away, engines obviously heat up pretty good, when you stop and shut engines off, temperature still continues to rise due to not cooling water, all the water in the manifolds probably boils off leaving a very corrosive item behind for the day, then you repeat it going home depending on how long it takes to get there and flush, but 10-15 min prob lets water boil off. just my thought.Ps I noticed a boat at the island we go to in FL, it had a Honda Four stroke on it, this guy let it idle for about 2 hrs while there, made me think if it is not shut off salt cant do its damage. Thoughts from all please ??

 

[4x15mph]

@fairpilot , I am sorry to hear about all of the trouble and thank you for saving others by documenting this. I think you have helped one person out already.

Is there any chance that the corrosion started on the outside of the manifold (i.e. leaky gasket)? How did the gasket look and it was metal, right? Is there any chance water from the engine bay had been up/over the exhaust manifold area at any point?

I have recently had an experience with paying to have my boat diagnosed and serviced. It was very disappointing since I have learned that they essentially took guesses at what the problem was likely to be. The way the problem was triaged and diagnosed would not hold weight on this board as I am sure many repairs would not. I really can't think of anyone that cares more about any repair and how it is done than the owner.

I am sure there are great service dealers out there. I just wish ALL of us had access to those reputable and dependable service centers.

 

[fairpilot]

100% positive that it was internal. Never any leaks in compartment gasket was fine and was not metal. This is a Yamaha problem. Mechanic at Yamaha said he has seen this a couple times. My regret is that I did not go to Yamaha first on this issue. Iended up spending close to $5000 dollars to get it back to normal. If you boat in salt water this needs to be on your radar.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

So it could be a defect on the inside of the manifold like a pit that allows corrosion to start?

 

[fairpilot]

Exactly right. Because I ALWAYS flush thougholy and with salt a way and there is no reason that should ever happen. I could see if you went in salt then just left boat and never cleaned

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

F.P. did you add zinc to your pump and ride plate area?
You know all I do is run in salt water. In the bay and in the gulf. I add zinc to everything even the trailer. I rinse with dish soap , always did that and I also use car wash soap that contains wax to coat the water passages.
I put tons of hours on the engines.
I had 551hrs on my supercharged 1800 in 4 years and 240 hrs on the 2013 that was wacked on the interstate, it was only 10 months old when that happened, I have 130 hrs already on my 2014 fx cruiser in 4 months. And 8hrs on one I just purchased about a week ago.
One thing you can also do for reducing corrosion is to add a disconnect to the negative side of the battery and use it when the boat is not in use.
I can tell you that at 500 hours I had a bad heat sensor, so to check on the corrosion and the possibility of a bad thermostat. I removed and inspected it. To my surprise there was no visible corrosion inside the thermostat area of the engine. Yamaha replaced the sensor under the warranty.
I don't know if it is the same alloy as your mr1 but I was very surprised to see it looking so good inside the water jacket. Don't know if that is due to the zinc and the soap etc but it seems to do a good job , so does coating everything with white lithium grease on the outside of the engine.
I have a routine for each new engine I get before they ever see the water.
Pull the plugs and never seize the threads, coat the plug boots with silicon grease, spray down every part with white lithium grease" even the hose clamps", add zinc to the ride plate and pump area. Spray the top of the fuel tank and all electrical connections that are accessible.
Also every month I add a bottle of fuel injector cleaner and about 8 oz of Dextron 2 a. t. f. to a full tank of fuel .