Have you had a 1.8 timing chain failure, was it in warranty and how has Yamaha handled it?

[haknslash]

Hopefully they are replacing it with the 2016 upgraded parts.

I hope so too. @Harshhobgoblin recently had his "new-to-him" used 2013 SX190 break its timing chain at less than 50 hours IIRC. He bought it used and it didn't come with YES but Yamaha stepped up and will be giving him all new parts for a motor rebuild including the upgraded 2016 hardware.

 

[MattFX4]

Dropped off the ski at the dealer today, they informed me that I was the third victim of a failed timing chain within about a week and they could not understand why this problem is not a recall. I appreciated his candor. So now let the boater beware.

could it turn in to a recall if the issue becomes more common and widespread? Maybe X amount of units need to fail before a recall is issued.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Well they did tell me that the parts they are getting to fix the failed ones are the new parts so that is a good thing however people who frequent places like the gulf of Mexico or ocean waters could end up in a world of trouble if they break down alone like I was . There is no warning and I figure the oil changes I do every 50 hours and the warm up periods plus no revving the engine on the trailer is probably why my engines lasted as long as they did 350 hours as opposed to 50 hours like other had.

 

[Evil Sports]

Well if there is a Recall it will be the first time I had to bring it to the dealer since 2013

 

[djetok]

Since this has been a issue previous to this post but not known. Is there a typical amount of hours this happens at or is it just sporadic?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I doubt it my other ski is also a 2014 and it has a bit more hours than the one that just hatched, and I seriously doubt people have the hours on a ski like I do, however if the engine quits instantly on someone who has the misfortune of traveling around some channel marker or other fixed object and the engine just quits they could end up in a serious wreck. We had a fatality a few years ago under the bridge near the fort Desoto boat ramp when someone was traveling on a ski with a passenger and their engine quit abruptly. Boats are not as bad but a p w c is deadly in that type of situation and if a reasonable person knew or should have known of the danger but did nothing to address it there could be some serious fallout over it. I just hope my other ski holds out long enough for my first one to be fixed, and I guess it's time to be very careful with the grand kids on the ski since I don't trust them like I did in the past.

 

[bumpy]

I hope so too. @Harshhobgoblin recently had his "new-to-him" used 2013 SX190 break its timing chain at less than 50 hours. He bought it used and it didn't come with YES but Yamaha stepped up and will be giving him all new parts for a motor rebuild including the upgraded 2016 hardware.

How did Yamaha end up helping him? Did his dealer/repair shop go to Yamaha, or did @Harshhobglin contact them, and who? I think this is great info for the rest of us; it might be our boat next!

 

[haknslash]

How did Yamaha end up helping him? Did his dealer/repair shop go to Yamaha, or did @Harshhobglin contact them, and who? I think this is great info for the rest of us; it might be our boat next!

Here is his thread in the 190/192 section https://jetboaters.net/threads/engine-cut-out-while-cruising-update-1-broken-timing-chain-update-2-yamaha-claim-approved.10780/. We should probably have all of these merged into a megathread or something.

He was cruising along and his boat just quit all the sudden. He took his boat to his dealer and they confirmed his timing chain broke. He said his engine had 27 hours on it. Dealer filed a claim with pictures on his behalf to see what they could do. Yamaha came back to him saying it's a "known issue" and they will cover the engine repair and install the new 2016 timing chain and related part upgrades.

 

[MattFX4]

What about these two options for prevention?

http://www.lbmotorsports.com/product/valvetrain/lb-motorsports-cryogenic-treated-timing-chain-for-yamaha-18l

http://watercraftjournal.com/ape-releases-manual-cam-chain-tensioner-for-yamaha-1-8l-engines/

 

[bumpy]

Here is his thread in the 190/192 section https://jetboaters.net/threads/engine-cut-out-while-cruising-update-1-broken-timing-chain-update-2-yamaha-claim-approved.10780/. We should probably have all of these merged into a megathread or something.

He was cruising along and his boat just quit all the sudden. He took his boat to his dealer and they confirmed his timing chain broke. He said his engine had 27 hours on it. Dealer filed a claim with pictures on his behalf to see what they could do. Yamaha came back to him saying it's a "known issue" and they will cover the engine repair and install the new 2016 timing chain and related part upgrades.

Thanks for the info @haknslash! I probably have too many hours to get the same kind of mercy from Yamaha, but with luck I won't need it. Thanks again.

 

[haknslash]

@MattFX4 I've used APE Manual Cam Chain Tensioners on my Honda 996 Super Hawk and my Honda CBR600F3 as those bikes were also notorious for bad timing chains. At least with those bikes you could hear when your chain was slapping inside against the block and chain guide at idle or just off idle but with a boat it's a lot harder to hear something like that. The APE MCCT works the same as any other basic MCCT where you manually set the tension of the guide. Still though there was always a lingering feeling in the back of my mind "Did I put enough tension on the chain? Did I put too much? Did my locking nut back off the manual CCT today?". Those things always ran through my mind but I have a bit of OCD so it's expected lol. That being said the CCT's did their job and quietned down my timing chain. Any time it needed adjustment I was able to tell because the motor would have this faint rattle and you just finger tighten the MCCT and it goes away and you then tighten down the locking nut on the MCCT.

I know everyone is watching this thread but it's important to always remember that even though this is a known issue, it still has to be relatively small percentage of it happening, discounting PWC's as they are a bit more abusive on engines just by nature. Sure the timing chain could fail without warning but so could anything else inside the engine. I wouldn't worry yourself over it if you already have a boat and are enjoying it. I would however do some annual inspection if I had a vehicle that had a "known issue" like the pre-2016 boats so that I could perhaps know if my chain had a few missing or cracked links. Then it wouldn't be so much of a 'without warning issue' as I might be able to spot it a few rides into the season and save myself a ton of headache, time and $$$$ if you're outside of warranty. I know that sucks to hear but that's the only way to at least try to monitor what is going on inside the engine with the chain and how it's holding up. The only other option is to upgrade to the 2016 hardware. Some people spend that much on stereo systems on their boat or surf setups so I would just weigh the options.

 

[swatski]

It may be premature to consider an update to the 2016 chain as a cure all, anyway. If the cause of the failure is a new/different chain manufacturer, which has been suggested, what if that same company is making the 2016 chain?

The official answer will probably never be known, but let's not forget there are several parts that physically touch the chain, the chain guides, which may be responsible.

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[Evil Sports]

Just came back from visiting my local dealer as I was 3 minutes away visiting a client and these are the conclusions I came up with.
In my area of the country it seems that only the single engine crafts have been affected and not many at all. Yamaha has upgraded that gear, chain, cams and oil pan. If your chain goes and the boat does now show significant abuse I get the feeling Yamaha is not going to fight you on this. I saw a member of this sites new motor being assembled so he will have his boat back pretty quickly. I also saw the bent valves in the head and and the broken chain. I didnt think it was appropriate to take pics of someone elses stuff.

 

[haknslash]

It may be premature to consider an update to the 2016 chain as a cure all, anyway. If the cause of the failure is a new/different chain manufacturer, which has been suggested, what if that same company is making the 2016 chain?

The official answer will probably never be known, but let's not forget there are several parts that physically touch the chain, the chain guides, which may be responsible.

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I agree its too early to tell if the new one is better. I don't think it's a matter of supplier of the chain but in the inherit weak design of the chain itself being less wide than it should be for the forces that are being exerted upon it. The resulting parts also had to be revised to accept a wider chaain which is probably what took Yamaha so long to come around and accept the fact to do something. I work in design engineering and while it's not Mother Yamaha, it's still engineering and issuing a recall is not something you just waive a "OK let's do it" wand at and let it go out the door without a lot of thought, both financially and mechanically. It's a careful calculated decision that if you are going to change the design, you best be damn certain that the new (read: EXPENSIVE TOOLING CHANGES AND RELATED COSTS TO MOTHER YAMAHA) design is not only going to work but it's going to solve the problem for good, or at least beyond their safety factor. It would be even far worse for their reputation if their "new/improved upgraded parts" were to fail. This is something engineering departments do not take lightly when they are asked to revise things that have a huge impact. Engine timing on an interference engine is critical so I don't see them upgrading to parts without a lot of testing and feel confident in their changes. At any rate, that's why I have a YES warranty and will hope for the best

 

[ar240owner]

Is it more a 2014-2015 thing ?

 

[swatski]

Is it more a 2014-2015 thing ?

That's the big mystery, and the confusion.
Initially, it was thought to be primarily 2014 SVHO that broke TCs with any regularity.
But now - who knows. The problem is, outside the SVHO realm, it is basically anecdotal evidence (yes, it does happen, but it may or may not be the most frequent case of engine failure).

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[haknslash]

Is it more a 2014-2015 thing ?

If you do a search on the main forum page for "timing chain" you'll find members that have been affected have boats from 2010-2015 and from models SX/AR 190 all the way through to the 242 Limited S. So it's not a single Engine is more prone than twins thing or that Superchargers engine are more likely than normally aspirated engines. It really is hit or miss from any year and any model boat. There is one member here who had like 8 hours on his when it broke and other members who were at 200 hours or more and it broke. It does seem frequent with later boats in the 2o13-2015 range but who knows. I doubt we'll ever be able to nail it down to a definitive number or likelihood of it happening to any given member.

 

[McMark]

Can we get some data together regarding the brand of oil, type (synthetic, dino oil), oil filter brand, on the folks that have had a failure?

 

[Evil Sports]

Can we get some data together regarding the brand of oil, type (synthetic, dino oil), oil filter brand, on the folks that have had a failure?

Hate to say it Mark but I cant see a bigger waste of time

 

[haknslash]

Can we get some data together regarding the brand of oil, type (synthetic, dino oil), oil filter brand, on the folks that have had a failure?

When I read through some of the affected member threads the issue I ran into is that it seems they no longer post much after the issue happened. So it's tough to say how it was handled at the dealer/Yamaha/warranty, what type of maintenance they did, etc. I plan on sticking with Yamalube and stock oil filters even though there are cheaper and/or better oils and filters out there. My thinking is that if I ever have a engine issue I don't want Yamaha coming to me saying it's because XYZ oil or filter was used. Not that I think any of that really matters that much as like I said it's happened to people who haven't even had their 10 hour service yet using Yamaha oil and OEM filters and it's happened to people that had many hours with several oil changes done along the way I suppose. It would be interesting to know though so if those people could chime in with types of oil, filters and maintenance log that would be great.

In the big scheme of things I don't think it really matters of the oil. Perhaps this all stems from a tooling die wearing over time on production parts thus increasing part tolerances. Who knows? It's still a small percentage of people but it gets magnified on here because we are a relatively small, active group in the total amount of users on a daily basis. Imagine all the people out there that aren't members could be having perfectly fine engines in all the thousands of boats out there. I wouldn't worry yourself over it and if you want ease of mind you will need to upgrade the parts. As mentioned it's also too early to tell how the new parts will fare but looking at them and reading one of the big engine builders in green hulk say the new stuff is beefy and should solve the issue puts me at ease.