High car payment? No problem…

[HangOutdoors]

I see a lot more kids, five or years out of college making 50K - 60K a year. On top of that, a decent (not extravagant) apartment in the Baltimore-Washington area costs about $1800 a month in rent. These kids are NOT living it up, they are focusing on their careers and their futures.

Jim

There is no reason at 60k per year you can't pay your debts and student loans. If rent is too high move to where it isn't as expensive. Get room mates, rent a room instead of an apartment, move out of the city, etc. Get a second job, trim back whatever you are doing to the minimum. Figure it out. If they don't like it or don't want to move or whine about it, whatever. Nut up and get it done.

 

[CanTex]

I see a lot more kids, five or years out of college making 50K - 60K a year. On top of that, a decent (not extravagant) apartment in the Baltimore-Washington area costs about $1800 a month in rent. These kids are NOT living it up, they are focusing on their careers and their futures.

Jim

People who graduate college/university and hold professional careers are NOT kids. We need to stop this enabling behavior, you make a commitment or obligation you follow through. If that obligation is repayment of your student loan, your mortage, or your car payment then follow through.

 

[HangOutdoors]

People who graduate college/university and hold professional careers are NOT kids.

Well Put!

 

[2kwik4u]

Let's get real on student loans. Most are held by young adults in the 20 - 30 year old age range. Many of them do not have expensive cars, boats, or can even afford to buy a house. Most of these young adults are just trying to make ends meet. Ten years is the norm for these loans. I had them 40 years ago and my daughter (a civilian employee with the Coast Guard) also has them.

Jim

Sorta.......the problem, from where I sit is equally shared between students who are too uneducated to make the commitment in the first place, and overly greedy lenders that gave out unsecured loans on what amounts to futures trading. Forgive them or not, I don't really care. So many other issues to deal with IMO this doesn't even blip the radar.

The real issue is we keep making excuses for people who haven't paid their loans. I paid off my student loans and bought my first house in my 20s. If people can't pay their loans off in 10 years, it's because of a lifestyle they chose. Whether it's living in an expensive city rhey can't afford, or frequent travel, or any number of other things... it's on them. They're CHOOSING to not pay off their loans, because they have other priorities that they feel are more important than paying back the money they borrowed.

Or they got a degree that is a non-value add because they did what they were told and went to college and pursued their passion.......instead of pursuing a profitable future. Many, including myself were pushed this way. Just so happens my passion is also profitable, that's luck not planning.

OR......

They overpaid for a degree that MIGHT have been profitable at some point, but they didn't do great in school, eeked by on Cs, and find themselves with $50k of debt and the skill set to get a $40k/yr job.

OR......

Life happened and they dropped out 3/4 of the way through to take care of life kind of stuff (sick relative, abuse victim, pregnancy, etc) and are now saddled with tens of thousands in debt and they're crushed to the point they can't get back to good to even begin to start over.

It's pretty arrogant to say they need forgiveness because they choose to be in debt due to lifestyle choices. I choose to be in debt because of my lifestyle choices. I've financed a camper a boat two cars and a house and still have $40k in student debt. I don't need the bailout. If you want to give me shit about taking my $10k of your tax dollars fine, let me have it, but don't act like I'm the only situation that exists. You gotta look around a bit further and see the rest of the picture here.


*Edit* looks I had two replies merged somehow. It doesn't read right up there. No idea what's going on*/edit*

*Edit 2*
Fixed some words, like skillet to skill set. Stupid mobile formatting/autocorrect.*/edit2*

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I commented on student loans and interest rates NOT debt forgiveness. This is the reason that I ignored the other thread on student debt, its because of these stupid comments that y'all have made. As my daughter is one of those kids in my last post, y'all have made this personal and you can fucx off as I have ignored this thread as well. My daughter is not an idiot (thanks @BlkGS) nor has a useless, non-valued degree (Economics). I'm proud of her and what she does (she is a civilian working for the Coast Guard who helps keeps their boats afloat).

Jim

 

[BlkGS]

Sorta.......the problem, from where I sit is equally shared between students who are too uneducated to make the commitment in the first place, and overly greedy lenders that gave out unsecured loans on what amounts to futures trading. Forgive them or not, I don't really care. So many other issues to deal with IMO this doesn't even blip the radar.


Or they got a degree that is a non-value add because they did what they were told and went to college and pursued their passion.......instead of pursuing a profitable future. Many, including myself were pushed this way. Just so happens my passion is also profitable, that's luck not planning.

OR......

They overpaid for a degree that MIGHT have been profitable at some point, but they didn't do great in school, eeked by on Cs, and find themselves with $50k of debt and the skill set to get a $40k/yr job.

OR......

Life happened and they dropped out 3/4 of the way through to take care of life kind of stuff (sick relative, abuse victim, pregnancy, etc) and are now saddled with tens of thousands in debt and they're crushed to the point they can't get back to good to even begin to start over.

It's pretty arrogant to say they need forgiveness because they choose to be in debt due to lifestyle choices. I choose to be in debt because of my lifestyle choices. I've financed a camper a boat two cars and a house and still have $40k in student debt. I don't need the bailout. If you want to give me shit about taking my $10k of your tax dollars fine, let me have it, but don't act like I'm the only situation that exists. You gotta look around a bit further and see the rest of the picture here.


*Edit* looks I had two replies merged somehow. It doesn't read right up there. No idea what's going on*/edit*

*Edit 2*
Fixed some words, like skillet to skill set. Stupid mobile formatting/autocorrect.*/edit2*

Like most issues, I think this one boils down to "how big do we think each group is". Some people think the majority of student loan holders are people struggling to get by, other that the majority are people who through their own fault chose not to pay them off.

There's a REALLY simple solution for this all. And it's not just blanket forgiveness. It's a more thought out approach, which won't happen because we don't think things through in the US, we just expect our God king to will it so with their unlimited power (ironically because the very same colleges don't do a good enough job).

So, the thought out approach is as follows

Eligibility: 10 years of full (not income based or similar) payments with no late or missed parents (including times that parents were deferred). 20 years with missed payments deferment, etc.

Income: No higher than median. 2x median for couples, no adjustments.

Who pays? This is most critical. It MUST be charged back to the issuing schools. Ideally, adjusted for inflation and interest. Otherwise, it just encourages their predatory lending to continue.

There's probably some.other smart things that should be added, but that's my first cut at it.

 

[2kwik4u]

Like most issues, I think this one boils down to "how big do we think each group is". Some people think the majority of student loan holders are people struggling to get by, other that the majority are people who through their own fault chose not to pay them off.

There's a REALLY simple solution for this all. And it's not just blanket forgiveness. It's a more thought out approach, which won't happen because we don't think things through in the US, we just expect our God king to will it so with their unlimited power (ironically because the very same colleges don't do a good enough job).

So, the thought out approach is as follows

Eligibility: 10 years of full (not income based or similar) payments with no late or missed parents (including times that parents were deferred). 20 years with missed payments deferment, etc.

Income: No higher than median. 2x median for couples, no adjustments.

Who pays? This is most critical. It MUST be charged back to the issuing schools. Ideally, adjusted for inflation and interest. Otherwise, it just encourages their predatory lending to continue.

There's probably some.other smart things that should be added, but that's my first cut at it.

I agree with most of this actually.

The portion at the beginning about understanding the true demographic groups is pretty key IMO.

I think the income at median is a close hit. I would add adjusted for location to a cost of living index. Bay area folks will come out like bandits, and southern Alabama will get hammered, but in general it should get us close.

I'm on board with laying some of this blame on predatory lending. No loans for doctorates in cultural studies, full rides for the trades.....or some sliding scale. I'm not equipped to answer it, and I fear those that are won't get their voices heard through all the political BS.

I think blanket forgiveness isn't quite right, but again, I'm not sure the critical thinking required to pass this sort of thing will get past the politics involved.

Clearly I don't need it, but I think there are many out in the world that do, and this will make a positive impact on how life proceeds for them. Maybe this frees enough budget for them to buy a house, have a kid or otherwise improve their situation. I'm cool with some of my tax money going to help some others.

The bigger political issue that we, as a country, need to stop speaking in hyperbole. Everything at this level is nuanced and detailed, and when we boil it down to a single point and then compare it to something outrageous a great deal is lost in the message.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

 

[BlkGS]

There are definitely people out there struggling under the weight of their debts, but we also can't throw away the concept of debt. There is nothing about a student loan that makes it any different than a loan for a car or a house except the fact that you can't be foreclosed on your degree. If an 18 year old can take out a 50k car loan, they should be expected to also pay back a 50k education loan. A loan is a loan.

That said, people who don't finish their degrees are at a major disadvantage, the school got their money, and not they often have majorly compromised salary to try to pay it back. These are the sorts of people I think student loan relief should be trying to help, people who a truly up a river without a paddle (obviously not a blanket situation, they may have dropped out of college and become a plumber and make buttloads of money, gross pun intended).

We don't need to do forgiveness for the new grad who has a good job and haven't even started paying their loan. We don't need to do it for the guy who chooses to drag it out for 40 years to spend their money on investments, cars, trips, drugs, expensive apartments, etc. We don't need to do forgiveness for people who make enough to pay their loans but choose not to because they'd rather gamble on forgiveness and drive a BMW.

And above all else, we have to recover the money from the colleges that issued the loans. I'd be fine woth a system where the college has to refund all costs paid for schooling in exchange for invalidating your credits. That way colleges have a financial incentive time to keep kids going. Qhile.people not paying their debts may be our Darth Vader, the educational industrial complex is the Palpatine pulling all the strings.

 

[I_squared_r]

I thought about this thread yesterday. I recently traded in my Tacoma for a RAM 1500 Laramie (love the truck btw). I took off the Tacoma's tonneau cover and listed it for sale. A guy comes to my house with a new Tacoma TRD Pro <200 miles on the odometer. He likes my RAM and asks me the monthly payment .. $590 .. He is shocked and says "mine is $1400 a month". He works at Dunkin' Donuts 7 days a week to pay for this. His english wasn't good so some things could've been lost in translation. He insisted to speak English although I can speak Spanish.. He tells me that he paid $60,000 on a 5.5 year loan (I dont think that exists?) $60k is probably right because the TRD Pro's are usually marked up 10k from their 47k MSRP. Out of curiosity, I ran the numbers and this puts him at 10-15% interest rate. Wow.. People really will sacrifice every last bit of their financial freedom for a vehicle.

 

[BlkGS]

That's insane. Assuming he's working 40 hours a week (probably isnt, probably more) then 8.75 an hour of whatever he makes is pure car payment. If he's making 12 bucks an hour, he's basically only paying his car note after taxes.

That's wild

 

[I_squared_r]

That's insane. Assuming he's working 40 hours a week (probably isnt, probably more) then 8.75 an hour of whatever he makes is pure car payment. If he's making 12 bucks an hour, he's basically only paying his car note after taxes.

That's wild

The minimum wage in Long Island is $15 an hour. Even still, I can't imagine his finances to make that TRD Pro happen

 

[Southernerd]

I commented on student loans and interest rates NOT debt forgiveness. This is the reason that I ignored the other thread on student debt, its because of these stupid comments that y'all have made. As my daughter is one of those kids in my last post, y'all have made this personal and you can fucx off as I have ignored this thread as well. My daughter is not an idiot (thanks @BlkGS) nor has a useless, non-valued degree (Economics). I'm proud of her and what she does (she is a civilian working for the Coast Guard who helps keeps their boats afloat).

Jim

There's a whole lot of I just ate so you aren't hungry going around. I don't see how anyone can take an honest look at the situation and not conclude that the entire system is f--ked and students/graduates are basically getting robbed. Education "used to be" an opportunity for anyone, not just kids with rich parents, but thats what it is now. If daddy is rich, get your degree, but if you had to grind it out on your own, you're f--king stoopid and should have just stayed in the trailer park and flipped burgers for the rest of your life. Even if you grind it out and outperform everyone else, you start you're career with mortgage level debt but no roof over your head. The rich win, and he poor are stupid because they can't live on daddy's dime.

 

[drober30]

Never ever never put any money down on a lease. Leased my wifes car and my kid totaled it with 980 miles on it. Only 4 months old. The 4 grand I put down on it evaporated with the car. Insurance company just dealt with the leasing company because they own the car. Won't make that mistake twice.

True!

If you want a "lower" payment on a lease, don't ever put money down, always get a "Sign and Drive" with Zero Up Fronts, that means NOTHING due at signing. Then take the money you would have used as a down payment and put it in an account and supplement your monthly payment with it, that way if you do total the vehicle or it gets stolen, you're not out money.

 

[drober30]

I've never been interested in leasing, but I thought they always required some type of down payment?

Jim

Leases don't require a down payment anymore than buying a vehicle does, it all depends on a persons credit worthiness. Dealers advertise lower monthly lease payments by showing money down in the small print.

 

[Joshua Miller]

There's a whole lot of I just ate so you aren't hungry going around. I don't see how anyone can take an honest look at the situation and not conclude that the entire system is f--ked and students/graduates are basically getting robbed. Education "used to be" an opportunity for anyone, not just kids with rich parents, but thats what it is now. If daddy is rich, get your degree, but if you had to grind it out on your own, you're f--king stoopid and should have just stayed in the trailer park and flipped burgers for the rest of your life. Even if you grind it out and outperform everyone else, you start you're career with mortgage level debt but no roof over your head. The rich win, and he poor are stupid because they can't live on daddy's dime.

It’s actually more like “I just ate now you go find your own dinner”. I didn’t come from money but now have two degrees and zero college debt. Most of us just want to live our lives without government overreach.

 

[Southernerd]

It’s actually more like “I just ate now you go find your own dinner”. I didn’t come from money but now have two degrees and zero college debt. Most of us just want to live our lives without government overreach.

As I mentioned, if you look at the entire system it is f'd and not the fault of the students who seem to be the only people folks want to criticize. I guess its more comfortable to live in a society where its only a problem when it hurts me.

 

[BlkGS]

As I mentioned, if you look at the entire system it is f'd and not the fault of the students who seem to be the only people folks want to criticize. I guess its more comfortable to live in a society where its only a problem when it hurts me.

View attachment 187928

I think everyone recognizes that the colleges are the issue. We also recognize that ha ding out free money does nothing to rein them in, it just sets a precedent that they can take more advantage of.

 

[BlkGS]

The minimum wage in Long Island is $15 an hour. Even still, I can't imagine his finances to make that TRD Pro happen

I'd wager to say that the taxes take that difference away pretty quickly, let alone housing costs.

But yeah, I feel for the guy. I knew a few guys that were 1st generation Americans like that. They felt like even though they worked a ridiculous amount of hours, they were still so far ahead of the game by moving to the US. I had a co versatile with a friend who moved here from Colombia once, I asked him why he worked 6 or 7 days a week and never took any real time off. He said that he moved to the US to work and build a future he couldn't in Colombia, so why would he waste time not working. Can't fault his logic I suppose. He also had some quirks about this gs he would spend insane money on, I think it was just his version of the American Dream.

 

[Joshua Miller]

As I mentioned, if you look at the entire system it is f'd and not the fault of the students who seem to be the only people folks want to criticize. I guess its more comfortable to live in a society where its only a problem when it hurts me.

View attachment 187928

I blame them because they aren’t just students; they are adults. Public community college, trade schools, or the military are all cheaper options that in some cases result in higher paying jobs on the back side.

 

[adrianp89]

I blame them because they aren’t just students; they are adults. Public community college, trade schools, or the military are all cheaper options that in some cases result in higher paying jobs on the back side.

Adults with still undeveloped brains that have been brainwashed their entire life. Luckily the college narrative is finally starting shift. The government, colleges, parents, and society are to blame as well.