Drove a lightning yesterday...

[HangOutdoors]

Ford is offering a $7500 rebate on the top trims of Lightning now, with most dealers doing discounts of $2500 or more. That's in addition to the $7500 EV tax credit.

All that adds up to a Lightning Lariat that's loaded to just under $80k working out to closer to 60, which is a much more reasonable price.

The real shame is the light ing lariat interior is kinda down market from the ICE lariat, and of course they're not getting the 2024 updates... Or the 2021 update. I think Ford would have been wise to just make Lightning a powertrain option that goes under any f150. There's a price point where I'd buy an electric truck over an ICE one, and frankly they're getting close. Just wish they had the nicer platinum under the MSRP cutoff...

I am still not sold on it as a truck with truck use for me. I will agree the price point you have listed is much nicer.

 

[BlkGS]

I am still not sold on it as a truck with truck use for me. I will agree the price point you have listed is much nicer.

Totally agree, it's only useful as an around town truck. I could use it to do home Depot trips and stuff like that. You know, the kind of stuff that doesn't justify owning a big money truck vs renting one for $20 an hour at home Depot.

We are probably gonna sell our boat, but even if we didn't, we would likely be using the the expedition to tow it anywhere as it has more space for the family and our stuff.

If the EV truck was a cheaper option than the gas truck, it could make sense. I drive like 100 miles a week, so I'm never gonna make up anything on charging vs gas, so the EV has to be cheaper for me to maybe buy it. But it also has to be just as good, and right now it isn't.

And yes, I know I could get a standard range, but that seems against the whole.point of a truck. A truck isn't about "just what you need and nothing more" anymore, it's "the 300 gallon fuel tank is only $350, I may as well get that". They're about excess, more towing than you need, more space, more power... The compromise battery pack doesn't make sense there.

Another weird tidbit. I looked at the lightning forums, and they have some weird stuff going on there. One guy was complaining that another lightning owner had the audacity to CHARGE HIS TRUCK FULLY AT A PUBLIC CHARGER. Apparently, the last 20% takes longer and is done at a slower rate, and these weirdos think that the "code of conduct" is to only charge until your charge slows, then limp along to your next charge. They had a whole thread talking about this, and how it could give them a bad name in the EV community. They also think it has flopped because it isn't a clean sheet BEV. They're delulu. They said "it looks like any other f150 like that's a bad thing, lol. Weird people over there

 

[TimW451]

Totally agree, it's only useful as an around town truck. I could use it to do home Depot trips and stuff like that. You know, the kind of stuff that doesn't justify owning a big money truck vs renting one for $20 an hour at home Depot.

We are probably gonna sell our boat, but even if we didn't, we would likely be using the the expedition to tow it anywhere as it has more space for the family and our stuff.

If the EV truck was a cheaper option than the gas truck, it could make sense. I drive like 100 miles a week, so I'm never gonna make up anything on charging vs gas, so the EV has to be cheaper for me to maybe buy it. But it also has to be just as good, and right now it isn't.

And yes, I know I could get a standard range, but that seems against the whole.point of a truck. A truck isn't about "just what you need and nothing more" anymore, it's "the 300 gallon fuel tank is only $350, I may as well get that". They're about excess, more towing than you need, more space, more power... The compromise battery pack doesn't make sense there.

Another weird tidbit. I looked at the lightning forums, and they have some weird stuff going on there. One guy was complaining that another lightning owner had the audacity to CHARGE HIS TRUCK FULLY AT A PUBLIC CHARGER. Apparently, the last 20% takes longer and is done at a slower rate, and these weirdos think that the "code of conduct" is to only charge until your charge slows, then limp along to your next charge. They had a whole thread talking about this, and how it could give them a bad name in the EV community. They also think it has flopped because it isn't a clean sheet BEV. They're delulu. They said "it looks like any other f150 like that's a bad thing, lol. Weird people over there

RE: Public charging, there is a lot of weird, far from reality POV on using public chargers. I’d be hesitant to even call it etiquette. When I has a Chevy Volt 10 years ago EV people insisted it and other PHEV should not be allowed to us public chargers, as they could still use gas and EVs couldn’t. I read in the past week that somewhere with chargers with differing charge levels people are posting signs complaining about the fast chargers being used by slow charging cars.

RE: clean sheet BEV. I’ve read that a lot also. (@2kwik4u weren’t you of that opinion?) Net new would be nice, but with it being body on frame I didn’t think it was as big of a deal. I think the frame was modified enough. I’m just out on it. As you said, it’s for people who want a truck, but don’t need one. If I had to buy a new truck today it would be the hybrid Ford or Toyota. Just wish they were PHEVs.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I almost fell like the whole EV vehicle mantra will eventually fail........

 

[2kwik4u]

RE: Public charging, there is a lot of weird, far from reality POV on using public chargers. I’d be hesitant to even call it etiquette. When I has a Chevy Volt 10 years ago EV people insisted it and other PHEV should not be allowed to us public chargers, as they could still use gas and EVs couldn’t. I read in the past week that somewhere with chargers with differing charge levels people are posting signs complaining about the fast chargers being used by slow charging cars.

RE: clean sheet BEV. I’ve read that a lot also. (@2kwik4u weren’t you of that opinion?) Net new would be nice, but with it being body on frame I didn’t think it was as big of a deal. I think the frame was modified enough. I’m just out on it. As you said, it’s for people who want a truck, but don’t need one. If I had to buy a new truck today it would be the hybrid Ford or Toyota. Just wish they were PHEVs.

Yea I think the full clean sheet BEV result is a Rivian or SilveradoEV. They've rethought all of the major components at some level with various levels of success. I like both of those, but use case and price point don't work for me personally. Does work for a LOT of people though.

For me, I won't buy a PHEV until I can get 100-ish miles on a charge. 30-45mi just gets me one way to work, and feels like a compromise without a huge upside. Lots more complexity in a PHEV over a BEV or an ICE. It's BOTH systems all at once. Again, works for a LOT of people, and I'm likely an outlier.

If I crash the Q7 today, or it blows a motor, etc.......Then I'll likely walk into the nearest Nissan dealership and buy an Armada for the wife to drive, and I'll take over her Rogue until it dies or is crashed. Then I'll get a BEV for commuting. I'm fairly convinced the biggest difference I can make is to just keep what I have as long as I can.

 

[2kwik4u]

I almost fell like the whole EV vehicle mantra will eventually fail........

I don't think this is the case. We're only a decade into the push towards EV at this point.

The plentiful infrastructure you see around you to support ICE powered vehicles has taken 90+yrs to get to where it is.

 

[zpaul]

Chinese are starting to build manufacturing plants in Mexico. Sooner or later they will start pushing those vehicles into US.
Their electric vehicles and quality is night and day what it was even couple years ago.
I feel like having EV for local everyday driver make sense, but you heed a long range gasser that can tow for the trips.

 

[HangOutdoors]

I don't think this is the case. We're only a decade into the push towards EV at this point.

The plentiful infrastructure you see around you to support ICE powered vehicles has taken 90+yrs to get to where it is.

the infrastructure is still in its infancy and I would argue that it is plentiful

 

[2kwik4u]

the infrastructure is still in its infancy and I would argue that it is plentiful

Eh, it's not as plentiful as it should be, and the reliability and standardization is still somewhat in shambles. NACS looks like it's going to win the protocol race, however there are multiple providers with varying levels of success. Tesla on the top end with a very reliable and robust system. Then down to Chargepoint and some of the smaller companies that have less than stellar reliability and deployment.

We've got a long way to go to make EV charging as ubiquitous as a gas station. We'll get there, but it'll take time.

 

[TimW451]

Eh, it's not as plentiful as it should be, and the reliability and standardization is still somewhat in shambles. NACS looks like it's going to win the protocol race, however there are multiple providers with varying levels of success. Tesla on the top end with a very reliable and robust system. Then down to Chargepoint and some of the smaller companies that have less than stellar reliability and deployment.

We've got a long way to go to make EV charging as ubiquitous as a gas station. We'll get there, but it'll take time.

Our gov has all but declared EVs are the future. Too bad nobody asked the people. I look forward to using something good and clean, but I think in 50+ years our roads will look like Cuba.

Half of EV owners will go back to an ICE vehicle (not counting you, Tesla drivers) – study — Electrek

In a seemingly bizarre yet tragic twist, a new study says that EV owners are a fickle bunch. After purchasing an electric vehicle, half of EV owners go back to ICE vehicles as either a replacement car or a second vehicle for their household – all with the exception of Tesla owners, who are (no...

apple.news

 

[2kwik4u]

Our gov has all but declared EVs are the future. Too bad nobody asked the people.

When has legislation ever asked the people what they want before moving forward?

 

[BlkGS]

I don't think this is the case. We're only a decade into the push towards EV at this point.

The plentiful infrastructure you see around you to support ICE powered vehicles has taken 90+yrs to get to where it is.

I think the rampant govt spending of the past 4 years all but assured the doom of the EV push. The insanely high inflation, coupled with high interest rates has pushed them out of the realm of affordability for the people that they need to want to buy these vehicles.

I think PHEV and hybrids have a better chance of making a difference, the cost for them is massively lower than a full electric due to battery costs, and they don't have to be a ground up design, which saves massive amounts of money.

That said, some driving habits will lend themselves to a specific type of vehicle. Some people, gas is all that will work. Some, BEV will work. For me, a PHEV would work great. The real issue is the government (and it's big bank masters) forcing BEV as the only option.

 

[BlkGS]

When has legislation ever asked the people what they want before moving forward?

That's kinda sorta exactly how our government is supposed to work. Elected officials get there by listening to, and representing what their constituents want.

 

[@JC!]

I almost fell like the whole EV vehicle mantra will eventually fail........

It's a boondoggle, plain and simple, the "Elite" have brainwashed the masses into believing that the fate of Earth is at stake and the only cure is more socialism. Thankfully many are finally catching on to the big con...

Automakers Have Big Hopes for EVs; Buyers Aren’t Cooperating

Sales growth has slowed in the U.S. as car companies are finding a limited pool of consumers willing to pay more for these models.

www.wsj.com

Automakers Have Big Hopes for EVs; Buyers Aren’t Cooperating
Sales growth has slowed in the U.S. as car companies are finding a limited pool of consumers willing to pay more for these models

As expected, the early adopters are driven more by virtue signaling and having the latest, greatest status item to show off. Also most EV vehicles are sold to customers as a 2nd or even 3rd vehicle, not many customers buy them as their sole mode of transportation.

The auto industry’s push to boost sales of electric vehicles is running into a cold, hard reality: Buyers’ interest in these models is proving shallower than expected.

While EV sales continue to grow—rising 51% this year through September—the rate has slowed from a year earlier and unsold inventory is starting to pile up for some brands. [ed. if you sold 2 last year and 3 this year it's be a 50% increase too... ? ]

…The first wave of buyers willing to pay a premium for a battery-powered car has already made the purchase, dealers and executives say, and automakers are now dealing with a more hesitant group, just as a barrage of new EV models are expected to hit dealerships in the coming years.

“The curve isn’t accelerating as quickly as I think a lot of people expected,” said John Lawler, Ford Motor’s chief financial officer at a conference in September, on the EV adoption rate. “We’re seeing it flatten a bit.”

In other words, most people don't want to buy our overpriced, under-performing junk and they only way we can push these on consumers is with government subsidies and peer pressure.

Ford Motor (F.N) said on Friday it will temporarily cut one of three shifts at the Michigan plant that builds its electric F-150 lightning pickup truck [ed. Yes the same one that was just reopened in August after a 2 month furlough], citing multiple constraints, including supply chain issues.

Sales of the EV truck did indeed tank during the third quarter of the year, dropping by a fairly amazing 45.8%. The company halted production of the vehicle entirely during the summer, but later claimed it was ready to ramp back up and actually quadruple the number of units produced from this year’s 150,000 (which is probably will not meet) to an absurd 600,000 in 2024.

The tanking sales for Q3 came even after Ford had cut the base price of the F-150 L to around $50,000, reversing the March increase that had raised it to $60,000. Fully loaded, an F-150 Lightning costs the buyer more than $100k, pricing out all but the wealthiest virtue-signal seeking consumers.

Auto manufacturers (except for Tesla... now) lose big money on every EV they produce, if they're forced to cut prices even more there's either going to be another big bailout or the companies are going to go bankrupt chasing this foolish endeavor. And it's not just Ford with issues selling EVs to customers who don't want them...

Europe’s largest automaker is struggling to keep up as the industry goes electric. Although Volkswagen’s EV sales climbed in September, new orders are failing to keep up.

Volkswagen sold 531,500 electric vehicles in the first nine months of the year, up 45% compared to last year (366,600).

…Despite the success in the third quarter, Volkswagen is still struggling to attract new EV orders.

“Our order intake is below our ambitious targets due to the lower-than-expected overall market trend,” Hildegard Wortmann, who oversees VW’s marketing and sales, explained.

[ed. new sales orders are almost non-existent, VWs sales in the previous quarter were almost solely based on fulfilling their previous orders which were unfulfilled on time in previous quarters.]

EVs are a bad investment, predicated on a lie, hopefully the rest of the people wake up and this bad idea will die a well-deserved death along with the careers of the politicians who've pushed the "Big Lie".

 

[2kwik4u]

That's kinda sorta exactly how our government is supposed to work. Elected officials get there by listening to, and representing what their constituents want.

Doesn't mean it does.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Guys, I just don't think it will ever be what the vision that is being put forth and what the ideology is. I just don't see it. Perhaps it is just a waypoint on the road to something else. It is unrealistic. The infrastructure for everything EV will never be in place.... I don't see how. Even the populus isn't buying in on it all.

 

[BlkGS]

GM announced it's pushing back their EV truck production to 2025. Weak demand and all that.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/ford-rival-gm-delays-ev-pickup-production-in-michigan/

 

[Billtex2000]

GM announced it's pushing back their EV truck production to 2025. Weak demand and all that.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/10/ford-rival-gm-delays-ev-pickup-production-in-michigan/

Shocker

 

[HangOutdoors]

It seems to me that MFG's just started building shit that they didn't even consider if there was a high enough demand or want. Just to follow suit. Kind of feels like it.

 

[BlkGS]

It seems to me that MFG's just started building shit that they didn't even consider if there was a high enough demand or want. Just to follow suit. Kind of feels like it.

They did. Nobody wanted to be seen by wall st as "falling behind". Wall St can't run a car company, but analysts there sure think they can, and if you don't do what they think you should, your stock tanks and you lose your job as CEO or any other high level exec.