AR210 won't start and rough idle ***UPDATE SOLUTION***

Murf'n'surf said:

Swap ECU yet?

Click to expand...

Not yet. I'll head down that path if the compression test looks good. Thanks though for the insight.

itsdgm said:

Well, I HATE to revive your old thread @ToddW850, but I fear that I might be in the same "boat". I've been trying everything I can to get my port engine to fire. Next step will be a compression check. But so far I've swapped all switches, coils, fuel pumps, new spark plugs, and a few electronics on the engines. It runs just as yours did. Stumbles and fumbles for a few seconds then stops. Seems to do a bit better after sitting. So I'll try to id the "bad cylinder with a compression test and try using some type of oil to loosen it up (if the compression test dictates).

Click to expand...

Oh no @itsdgm I hate to hear that. At least a compression test will rule it out, or rule it in, right away. Hope you figure it out. Good luck.

ToddW850 said:

Oh no @itsdgm I hate to hear that. At least a compression test will rule it out, or rule it in, right away. Hope you figure it out. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Well...............not good, compression showed the #4 cylinder at 0 psi.

Assuming that I probably have some valves sticking I tried putting a bit of anti-corrosion & lube into the cylinder, kicking the motor over (with lanyard disconnected) and letting it sit for a while. No luck.

I called a shop that I used for carb parts on my old SeaDoo boat and could tell then that he knows his stuff. He's been around for 27 years and seems to have positive reviews. But when I called him he said that he doesn't do Yamaha boats because they take up so much space. However, he will do the job if I bring the motor to him. This is what I intended to do anyway since my boat is parked in a fashion that it would take me over an hour to extricate from the side of the house, don't want to empty all of our stuff and couldn't imagine trusting that the boat wouldn't get neglected/stolen sitting in a parking lot somewhere.

Looks like it should be easy to get the engine out. So far I've disconnected most of the wiring, air intake & exhaust. Just a few more hoses & wires and I should have it out. I'm not in a big rush anyway. The mechanic said it would probably take him 3-4 weeks to order the parts and do the work. I won't really need the boat until June/July anyway.

The good news was that he figured that it would only cost about $500 if it needed a complete valve job. Hopefully I heard that correctly. I'd feel pretty good if I can get away only paying $500.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread @ToddW850, but my issue seems identical to yours and I didn't see a need to duplicate a thread. I do plan on posting a detailed "how to remove engine" thread after I'm all done.

Wish me luck, here we go.

Dennis - good luck! Thank you for sharing, that is a bummer, but a very informative thread for the rest of us!

@ToddW850 and @itsdgm, just curious, prior to your issues, were you fogging your engines? I havent fogged my engines yet this winter, but this is making me think I should do it sooner than later...

@itsdgm sorry to hear about your trouble, here is a link from the FAQ about pulling an engine,
https://jetboaters.net/threads/how-to-removing-an-engine-alone.3863/#post-65777

If you need a 07 service manual pm me.

Scottintexas said:

@itsdgm sorry to hear about your trouble, here is a link from the FAQ about pulling an engine,
https://jetboaters.net/threads/how-to-removing-an-engine-alone.3863/#post-65777

If you need a 07 service manual pm me.

Click to expand...

Thanks @Scottintexas. I do have the service manual. I did read that link that you posted and learned a few things from that. Thanks.

Good luck, @itsdgm May the jet thrust be with you again very soon.

itsdgm said:

Well...............not good, compression showed the #4 cylinder at 0 psi.

Assuming that I probably have some valves sticking I tried putting a bit of anti-corrosion & lube into the cylinder, kicking the motor over (with lanyard disconnected) and letting it sit for a while. No luck.

I called a shop that I used for carb parts on my old SeaDoo boat and could tell then that he knows his stuff. He's been around for 27 years and seems to have positive reviews. But when I called him he said that he doesn't do Yamaha boats because they take up so much space. However, he will do the job if I bring the motor to him. This is what I intended to do anyway since my boat is parked in a fashion that it would take me over an hour to extricate from the side of the house, don't want to empty all of our stuff and couldn't imagine trusting that the boat wouldn't get neglected/stolen sitting in a parking lot somewhere.

Looks like it should be easy to get the engine out. So far I've disconnected most of the wiring, air intake & exhaust. Just a few more hoses & wires and I should have it out. I'm not in a big rush anyway. The mechanic said it would probably take him 3-4 weeks to order the parts and do the work. I won't really need the boat until June/July anyway.

The good news was that he figured that it would only cost about $500 if it needed a complete valve job. Hopefully I heard that correctly. I'd feel pretty good if I can get away only paying $500.

Sorry to hi-jack your thread @ToddW850, but my issue seems identical to yours and I didn't see a need to duplicate a thread. I do plan on posting a detailed "how to remove engine" thread after I'm all done.

Wish me luck, here we go.

Click to expand...

Well dang it! I sure was hoping that wasn't it, but the symptoms sure matched. At least you know what it is now.

Little curious about the parts the mechanic has to order. Only parts my mechanic ordered were some gaskets and maybe one other thing. Regardless, I think $500 is a great deal for this. Plus you'll end up with fresh oil and an engine that runs like new.

Hoping for a good outcome and absolutely NO apologies needed for reviving my Thread. That's why they are in here.

Good Luck!

PaulyB said:

@ToddW850 and @itsdgm, just curious, prior to your issues, were you fogging your engines? I havent fogged my engines yet this winter, but this is making me think I should do it sooner than later...

Click to expand...

@PaulyB yes I fogged my engines that winter, before the issue showed up. But I had some kind of mud type substance in the #3 cylinder. He had never seen anything like it.

@PaulyB sorry, I forgot to mention that I don't fog my engines. But I might start I'll have to see what the valves look like. Stay tuned.

Please try to get the mechanic to take pictures as he tears down. It would be helpful for us to actually see what went wrong.
I pulled one of my engines a few years back with my then 14 year old daughter. It is not difficult but having a fork truck really helped lift it out. Plan on renting a engine hoist. I found that the Yamaha service manual was pretty accurate.
We are going through this with you, brother.

buckbuck said:

Please try to get the mechanic to take pictures as he tears down. It would be helpful for us to actually see what went wrong.
I pulled one of my engines a few years back with my then 14 year old daughter. It is not difficult but having a fork truck really helped lift it out. Plan on renting a engine hoist. I found that the Yamaha service manual was pretty accurate.
We are going through this with you, brother.

Click to expand...

Thanks @buckbuck for the encouragement. I was pretty down about it a few days ago. But having spent an hour or two disconnecting most of it, and talking with the mechanic I feel much better. I did see a few pics of you pulling an engine on another post. It does seem like lifting the engine out will be my next big hurdle. I'm borrowing an engine hoist from a friend but I'm not sure if it'll have the lift and reach necessary. A fork lift would be awesome I will insist that the mechanic take tons of pics and I'll swing by and do the same before authorizing any work. Seeing as how I have an identical second engine, I'm very interested in what happened here too.

I woke up this morning thinking about your adventure and remember that you will have to align the engine when you reinstall. I found it helpful to use a Sharpie to trace around the motor mounts and carefully watch for shims and which mount they came from. It wasn't difficult if you knew how to put it back together.
I wish I was there to help you.

buckbuck said:

I woke up this morning thinking about your adventure and remember that you will have to align the engine when you reinstall. I found it helpful to use a Sharpie to trace around the motor mounts and carefully watch for shims and which mount they came from. It wasn't difficult if you knew how to put it back together.
I wish I was there to help you.

Click to expand...

Thanks @buckbuck for the tips. I was going to try and remove the engines with the motor mounts to keep the shims in place. It appears that it will be easier to rest the engine on 4x4 blocks and load it into the truck like @CrankyGypsy did in his pic below from his thread https://jetboaters.net/threads/how-to-removing-an-engine-alone.3863/ but I will keep track of the shims if I have to separate the motor from the mounts.

Again, thanks for thinking of me. Please keep the advice coming if you think of anything else.

i was not able to get the engine to separate from the mounts (not that i spent a lot of time doing so) - to do it all over again, i would still remove them the same way.

@fairpilot i think he was able to pull one of his MR-1 engines by himself and without a rig by draining the oil, removing the oil cooler, the airbox, and maybe the exhaust.

you can also try using mechanical advantage if you don't have a forklift or winch. just get a couple of decently-rated snatch blocks (i used one from Smittybilt), clevises, and a good rope. build yourself a simple rig utilizing the wake tower like i did and get a friend to help hoist it up. you can add what are called "prusiks" (google: how to tie prusik) that will allow you to lift the engine out and then temporarily hold it in mid-air as a safety while you get the boards under it.

Thanks @CrankyGypsy im hoping an engine hoist will work. But I have been looking over your engine removal thread. Thanks for documenting it so well.

Thanks for the updates @itsdgm . Still hoping for a quick and easy repair for you.

If you spend some time taking stuff off engine, i.e. oil box, exhaust, head etc you should be able to lift it out, I used a lot of towels to rest it on areas as i got it out, i was able to carry it to the back deck set it on towels and then off the boat, note where your shims are, also I use a straight edge on the coupling for alignment. FYI I have a head gasket brand new i believe it will fit PM me we can discuss if you can use it part #60E-11181-01-00

fairpilot said:

If you spend some time taking stuff off engine, i.e. oil box, exhaust, head etc you should be able to lift it out, I used a lot of towels to rest it on areas as i got it out, i was able to carry it to the back deck set it on towels and then off the boat, note where your shims are, also I use a straight edge on the coupling for alignment. FYI I have a head gasket brand new i believe it will fit PM me we can discuss if you can use it part #60E-11181-01-00

Click to expand...

Thanks @fairpilot. For offering up the gasket. I'll let you know when I cross that bridge.

I'm not 100% sure but the engines on my 21'er are tucked in a bit tighter than that of the pics of the 23' boats I've seen. Removing the engine cover on the 23'ers seems to give a wide open window above vs the obstructed access on my 21'er. So I'll need to lift, move the engine forward a bit, then lift again. So I think the safe thing to do would be to hoist it out which would enable me to stop and move things without having to rest the engine. At least that will be plan "A". Holefully I'll have a plan that works before I get to plan "Z"

I store my boat in a 10' wide concreted side yard. House on one side and wall on the other. Best access for me would be to pull the engine from the rear of the boat (but I don't think a lift would have enough reach), second best from the side (I don't think I will have enough width), and third would be to mount a 4x4 post to the walls on each side and run another beam across the top and lift from there. Of course I could always pull it out to the street too, but that's a process in and of itself and I'd want to be quick about it since my HOA doesn't allow boats to be stored next to the house and without question would have issues with pulling an engine in front of the house. So somewhere in there lies the answer.

So, if anybody out there has pics of pulling an engine I'd love to see them. It would help give me a better understanding of what will work in my situation.

Thanks in advance

On a positive note: I spent another hour in the boat yesterday and have everything disconnected and labeled where it goes. So it just needs to be unbolted and lifted out.