2021 AR190 Underpowered

[LakesideLaw]

if you can still bump the price… I would ask $39k… guarantee you will get it. Boats are a great loan asset as well… they depreciate much slower than cars. Banks love to loan on boats.

 

[bigwaves]

I don't have a seething hatred for this boat. I was pretty disappointed the day I wrote the initial post. I was disappointed in how it puled the tube, filled to weight capacity, and tow capacity. I still am. I really did have one speaker that wasn't even plugged in and a cup holder that just floats in the hole and the cockpit drain that drips into the engine compartment.

I also bought the boat, due to the low and easy maintenance, the beautiful swim deck, the seating, and I have the white and blue one, and I think it is beautiful. I understood buying the boat, that would be a little underpowered. I have custom reg numbers, dock lines, and fenders with the same color blue. Its gorgeous, especially on the lift next to my dock, makes my lakefront look nicer. There are lots of things I love about this boat. I still wish it had better power.

I didn't know how underpowered the boat would be, but I knew what my priorities were when I was shopping for the boat we'd keep at our house. I did not want to take a 15-20k shot at a used 20 year old boat. I did not want a 3-5k shot at a used 40 year old boat. I do not want payments on a brand new 100,000+ dollar boat. I wanted something I could tow behind my Highlander with ease. I wanted something that was so reliable my wife felt like she could take it out without me along. This Yamaha is all of that.

I am really surprised at all of the comments this thread garnered. I now see the appeal of being an internet troll. So much attention. I kind of wish I hadn't of gotten on here and thrown a fit a few days ago with the original post. I apologize if my negativity upset any of you, most people were constructive, there were a few posts that were personal attacks on me. I hope you all find your happiness, I wasn't looking for sympathy, or trying to insult you, I was just looking for an outlet to vent my frustration that day, and this was here. So thats that.

For anyone who is still interested, I'm gonna get my big boy pants on, suck it up, appreciate the value in all the reasons I wanted the boat, get over the fact that I'm not gonna jump it outta the water with a tube behind, and we're gonna keep it. I'm gonna live with my decision. Time is valuable too, and we have fun with this boat. At least for this season. It pulls skis and wakeboards very well, its beautiful, its relatively cheap. Its not even that loud anymore, now that I filled the engine compartment with kilmat and egg crate, definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

I like the Bahama videos too. I don't think I'd attempt a crossing with this boat myself. I live in MN, I'll never trailer this boat to Florida or put it in saltwater. We do love those waters though, I've been setting my sights on sailing through my winters there, scuba diving for gold.

I've decided to filter the email notifications from this thread to the trash can in my email account. Hopefully I can put this out of my mind and get with the rest of my life. Thank you to everybody.

Peace!

??Your first post sounded like deep, seething, hatred to me??But all is good and you have some buyers lined up. That’s great! Maybe check out some Scarab models. Doesn’t Scarab have some boats with twin 300hp engines? That should pull some big tubes around pretty well. Good luck, Simon and don’t be a stranger.

 

[adrianp89]

if you can still bump the price… I would ask $39k… guarantee you will get it. Boats are a great loan asset as well… they depreciate much slower than cars. Banks love to loan on boats.

realistically he could pull 40k+ right now. Summer is a week away and there are zero boats on the market.

 

[RobbieO]

I’m sorry you hate your new boat. That must really suck, I can’t even imagine. But I have felt like that at times with my 212SE for numerous reasons. If your trim rings on the cupholders are like mine, they twist lock, there is no adhesive. In addition to my boat being loud AF, I noticed this weekend that the whole hull is vibrating like grounded motor mounts. It’s unacceptable and I’ll be addressing it with the dealer on Saturday. It’s bad enough I lost my voice trying to have a conversation while underway. Hopefully your dealer will find the issue and correct it for you. These boats are gorgeous. Don’t lose hope, think positive. Love thy Yammy.

 

[212s]

@bruue1 Missed this thread earlier, but seems everything is working out for you anyway.

Must mention that we have had the opposite experience...having owned I/O's for many years, going to a jet has been a fantastic experience. Love the seating and layout, it's plenty big enough for us, handles great, and these twin 1.8L engines are monsters - takes off like a scared rabbit. We love this boat and will never go back to a prop again.

 

[Nightmare]

I was looking hard at the Vortex boats with the 300 HP ACE motor, but you can’t buy a new one in California.
Sane with the Yamaha AR210s
Bruue1, see if you can get a demo ride some time in any of the dual engine jets. I think you would have plenty of power with an AR210.

 

[SCP1]

My recommendation is this. If you want to fix the problem get a Lucky cone 13 and the Cobra fins (the fins have a plate which help the boat plane faster and improve turning while towing tubes). Obviously slow speed as well. If you really want to sell, sell now there is no way you should lose 10k right now. I'm sure I could make money right now in this market, however I have never seen anything like this. Put it on FB marketplace for what you have into it, it should sell quick. In this market I would not have a dealer sell it.

 

[2kwik4u]

I bought this 2021 AR 190 and it sucks. It's loud. It vibrates. It has never gotten above 36mph in 13 hours for me. Yesterday I had 7 x 13 year old boys in the boat and my wife. Trying to tow a 2 seat Big Mable, 5 kids in the boat and two on the tube, we could not swing the tube over the wake. In fact in almost any sort of turn the boat would bog down to like 14-15mph at full throttle. In the straights it would take longer than it should to recover.

There is no power until around 6500 RPM and my engine never revs higher than 7200 rpms?

No torque.

Yeah it can pull one adult water skier or wakeboarder or knee boarder with 2-3 in the boat. But so can a tin boat with a 30 hp tiller steer outdrive.

F****n joke for a $38,000 dollar brand new "8 person" boat with a wakeboard tower.

I should have known better, no matter the type of engine, or how high it revs, it is 1.8 ltr. That is less than half the size of my previous 1983 3.7ltr Merc 470 which could push my old Rinker, with 7 grown men in the boat and one dragging behind on the tube. I never owned a jet before. It's stupid.

I'm serious. I wanted to love this boat. It has been nothing but a disappointment. I just did the 10 hr oil change at around 11 hrs two days ago. This boat has sucked since I got it. The very first day, putting in the water, the first thing my wife asked "Is there something wrong with the engine?" Reading through these blogs it sounds like there is but it is no different than anything anyone else is experiencing and that it is running as well as it can.

I am calling the dealer tomorrow. Going to bring the boat back. Luckily they are in short supply, hopefully they can sell it to someone else. I still expect to be out almost 10 grand between the purchase and sale of the boat, I'll feel lucky if I do that well. Regardless, I just cant take running this thing anymore, I should have driven one first, I never would have purchased. The thing is a big, pretty, floating, joke.

I'm sorry but we'd be better tubing behind a pontoon.

Yes I saved the day for the boys, it's pretty intuitive to widen your turns and figure out how to nurse 18-20 mph out of the boat, but it wasn't much fun. Heck, I even saw 22 once or twice. After dropping half the weight at the beach, we were able to do a little better.

I am looking to buy anything with a propeller in place of this. Wish I still had my old boat. This boat was a huge mistake.

So that's my sad story. I'm posting this in case you are thinking about purchasing one, and because I'm pissed. I feel like there is a lot of "it's not so bad" from people trying to deny their mistake, any boat with just a chipmunk's worth of balls (torque) can blow these things right out the water.

I personally do prefer the low speed handling, it's fun to spin the boat at the dock. But that's it.

Also, my cockpit drain seeps water into the engine compartment, many of my cup holder rims are loose, not properly caulked down, and my depth finder is as inaccurate as anything I've ever seen more than half the time, and one of my four speakers was not hooked up to the wire. It was all there, I just had to pull the speaker and plug it in, that was all on a new boat from the factory.

I got the blue and white one; I think it's beautiful, the fit and finish is lacking.

I can't believe they sell so many of these.

Yamaha: My name is Simon B. Thanks for wasting my time and money. One more thing, 13 hours driving on a 1000 acre lake in MN 2.8 ave mpg. As if its a yacht.

Clearly not the boat for you. Sorry it wasn't a better experience. I hope you find what you're looking for.

I personally love my '17 AR190 even as I creep past 175hrs and a few tanks into my 5th season with it.

 

[Sean R]

@bruue1 Missed this thread earlier, but seems everything is working out for you anyway.

Must mention that we have had the opposite experience...having owned I/O's for many years, going to a jet has been a fantastic experience. Love the seating and layout, it's plenty big enough for us, handles great, and these twin 1.8L engines are monsters - takes off like a scared rabbit. We love this boat and will never go back to a prop again.

I am with 212S, my 212 jumps out of the water, 70 plus hours only issue was (I fixed) the anchor locker drain.

 

[Mandiime]

I am with 212S, my 212 jumps out of the water, 70 plus hours only issue was (I fixed) the anchor locker drain.

I agree... my 212 riiiippppsss

 

[SCP1]

One other question, how much weight do you have in the bow? These 190’s are very sensitive to weight up front, if you move the weight behind the windshield your top speed and slow steering will be greatly improved.

 

[mraz72]

That is TOO many people for that boat. I know what the sticker says (8 person). My boat says 12 person but I would not plan a water sports day with that many. I take that number to mean the number of people you can boat with without sinking. If you want water sports with that many people you need more horsepower period.

At least that's my opinion.

 

[2kwik4u]

That is TOO many people for that boat. I know what the sticker says (8 person). My boat says 12 person but I would not plan a water sports day with that many. I take that number to mean the number of people you can boat with without sinking. If you want water sports with that many people you need more horsepower period.

At least that's my opinion.

I've had (6) teenagers, myself, and another parent in our AR190 before. It's absurdly crowded and the 190 feels low on power in that situation. Still had enough grunt to pull one of the teenagers up on a wakeskate from a deep water start, and enough holeshot to pull the handle from his hand if I hit it too hard. He's a farm hand, so I don't think grip strength was the issue either.

I've had a couple days to think on this, including an 11hr tow home from FL. I really think it's just a really really bad case of misplaced expectation. Dude came from a big block powered bowrider with a prop. Possibly a Bravo 3 outdrive (twin counter-rotating props) which are known for having VERY low slip coefficients. Those things pull like a tractor, and the big block has torque for days. I would guess redline on the motor to be in the 5k range, if that. To make the jump from that boat to an AR190 is absurd to even compare. The jet slips a LOT compared to a B3 outdrive. The 1.8L makes only a fraction of the power (well under 1/2), and that power doesn't even come on until after the big block is out of breathe (6k+).

If you want a boat to pull like a tractor, then jets aren't for you. Period. Clearly OP didn't get a test drive, or, honestly do even about 20min of research on Google. In this market, he'll most likely not lose much cash, and he can move back to a propped boat.

Secondarily, as a previous Rinker owner, I used to be "deep" into thier product line. You can't get the 7.3 in anything smaller than a 24ft boat. The AR190 punches above it's weight class when considering interior space, but it is NOT going to compare favorably to a 24ft from Rinker. They're jsut significantly larger.

I really hope OP finds the boat he's looking for, I also hope that future buyers aren't swayed by this post. I'm somewhat biased, however I really do think the AR190 is a great little boat. We did a shade over 60mi with it on a single tanks worth of fuel on Wednesday. had 2ft-ish waves in the bay we were in with 4 adults and 3 kids aboard. Ran 30mph, stayed mostly dry, and listened to music and chatted while on plane. We've pulled tubes with it, we wakeskate with it. We cruise with it. It's cheap to purchase (lot of value in a $30k price tag), cheap to operate, cheap to tow, cheap to maintain, and cheap to store. t is NOT for someone with a giant family or tons of friends. It's NOT for someone that wants to win drag races. It's an ENTRY level jet boat from a value brand. It's great for what it is, but you're not getting a Cobalt quality 60mph surf boat.

</rant>

 

[212s]

I've had a couple days to think on this, including an 11hr tow home from FL. I really think it's just a really really bad case of misplaced expectation. Dude came from a big block powered bowrider with a prop.

Actually it's a 470 which is an i4-cyl engine with 3.7L displacement and about 170+ hp...I think you flipped the displacement numbers.

We had a 19' with a 4.3L v6 making 205hp and it was a slug taking off, but could pull easier since the prop has less slip. Fuel consumption wasn't a lot better than our twin 1.8L engines cruising or WOT - did about 7gph in the v6 and 9gph in the 212s both doing about the same 27mph speed. But huge difference in performance - the twins take off like a rocket and hits 50mph easily while the v6 was a slug out of the hole and hit 46mph scaring the crap out of the wife since the hull had a poor 8degree deadrise and would rock back and forth over a ripple nevermind crossing a wake or a choppy day on the water.

that power doesn't even come on until after the big block is out of breathe (6k+).

Yup, first drive in a jet was a bit of a surprise...I knew they revved higher but didn't realize they don't produce big thrust until 5k or more and the thrust builds more exponentially rather than linear. Just like a motorcycle where 2k is gutless and 5k is a wheelie.
?
But either way, I agree, a prop is more efficient than a jet for towing. I didn't buy my 212s for efficiency though, no boat is efficient compared to vehicles, I bought the boat to have fun doing what we do and we love it.

If all I did was tow tubes and boarders, I might have considered a propped wake boat - you need the right tool for the job.

 

[2kwik4u]

@212s I sit corrected. I've never heard of a 3.7L 4cyl before now. I figured he flipped the numbers and that was part of the reason OP was so dissatisfied.

I came from a 3.0L 4cyl 19ft Rinker with an A1 out drive. My AR190 is an improvement in almost every single measure compared to that last boat. The only thing it really did better was maintain speed consistently for wake sports. I've adjusted my driving style a little (as one should when operating different machines), and have nothing but praise for the change.

A quick thought on fuel burn. Are you really getting 9gph at 30mph in your 212? I just ran from Navarre to Pensacola on Wednesday. Was burning about 11gph at 32mph in my 190. Had 4 adults and 3 kids on board and was probably a little heavier than normal. Guess the twins just don't have to work so hard to get that speed compared to the single.

 

[212s]

The only thing it really did better was maintain speed consistently for wake sports.

Yeah they bleed off speed easily when turning hard as the jets try to maintain pressure. Props can bite into the water all the time. But open up the turn radius and no problems with a jet. We often do sweeping turns at 40mph and friends are amazed at how well it rides, then crank over and turn hard, bleed off some speed, then straighten out and take off like a rocket again. I see big grins all the time, and sometimes a few white knuckles. Best faces come from cruising at 25mph and punching the throttles and rocket to 40mph in seconds - midrange punch is impressive.
?

A quick thought on fuel burn. Are you really getting 9gph at 30mph in your 212?

Pretty much...I was monitoring fuel numbers last year and was surprised to get as high as 3.1mpg indicated while cruising around 25-27mph and 8.8-9.0gph. Granted that was best case with just the two of us and a full tank of fuel and calm seas. With more people, wind, and chop that drops a bit to about 2.8mpg at 27mph, but not a huge drop.

You're right that the twins work less hard and produce more thrust, speed and mpg at similar rpm levels, although the 212 weighs 1000lbs more adding more people doesn't greatly affect performance. At 32mph I'm running about 5500rpm and 11gph or so combined consumption...I didn't do a full sweep of consumption range, just looking at the best cruise and increases at 5500/6000/6500rpm to get consumption numbers and compare to online results. All the way up to 40+mph the consumption rates are fairly linear so I don't worry about maintaining ideal cruising speeds much anymore...I just drive whatever we want from 25-45mph and not worry. Only reason I cap at 45mph is the bimini rating. With it closed, hitting 50+mph consumption is still reasonable and I have no reservations of going WOT to rip across the water in a hurry if needed...only difference is we get there twice as fast.

Below is a pic from the Boattest.com website of the 2017 212 Limited S and the curve they show for speed vs gph is pretty accurate and shows how consumption is not as dramatic as one would have thought. Note how the blue speed curve jumps at 5k when the boat gets up on plane. Except when doing water sports or riding through 3-4ft chop in high winds, I don't spend much time in the 2-4k range.

 

[anmut]

How did you fill your towable?

 

[2kwik4u]

@212s That really is a strong case for getting a 21ft vs the 19ft.

Last week on our trip from Navarre to Pensacola, I was worried about fuel burn as it was scheduled to be a shade over 55mi trip there and back. I've put as many as 75mi on a tank, but that was on DEAD FLAT water on the Cumberland River in Nashville. This was on the bay side of the gulf, and the water was significantly rougher. We had 4 adults and 3 kids under 10, bimini deployed into a 6-7mph headwind, and probably an extra 2-300lbs of gear than normal. At WOT I was getting only about 7300rpm, and ~33mph. Instruments were telling me I was burning around 12gph. The single 1.8 was working really hard to maintain that speed, and I honestly would've like another ~10mph or so to stay more "on top" of the chop. I'm really curious how the 212S compares to the AR240 in terms of fuel burn. Essentially the heaviest 21ft with twin 1.8's as compared to the lightest 24ft with the twin 1.8's.......I'm going to have to research a bit and see what I can dig up.

In thought related to the original post about the 190 being underwpowered.......I did some testing on Fathers Day. 3 Adults (one over 300lb), and 2 kids (10, 3). Put the lightest adult (~140lb) and the 10yr old (~55lb) on the tube. had the largest adult sit in the bow with the 3yr old. Tubing SUCKED. Bled off speed horribly in the turns, had to work to regain speed, had cavitation in the turn pretty bad. It worked, but I had to seriously change up the technique. Was still able to get them outside the wake somewhat easily, and was asked to slow down a few times. Clearly it was doing it, but it required a little more effort on the drivers part to make it happen........then we stopped for lunch and swimming.......After that, we put the same two back on the tube, but this time, largest adult and toddler were in the stern seats. All the way in the back. It was like a totally different boat. Traction (no cavitation) for days, felt like the power was very "on point" with plenty of midrange punch. Getting them outside the wake required much less effort as there was little to no speed bleed off in the turns, and zero cavitation in the turns. It really was a MUCH better experience. Just goes to show how sensitive the 19ft boats are to weight in the bow.

I really really like my 190. It's a great boat. This is season 12 for us in a 19ft boat though, I think the wife and I are both ready to upgrade at this point. We're starting to look at new houses, and the neighborhood we like has houses with 3 car garages. 2 "main" bays, and then a "toy bay" that is offset both to the side, and to the rear of the house. A few have them turned 90deg with a side entrance and positioned "behind" the main 2 bays. Builder says they can easily put a 10ft door in there, and have 30' depth. Should hold a 212S or AR240 just fine for us I think

 

[bruue1]

I’m sorry you hate your new boat. That must really suck, I can’t even imagine. But I have felt like that at times with my 212SE for numerous reasons. If your trim rings on the cupholders are like mine, they twist lock, there is no adhesive. In addition to my boat being loud AF, I noticed this weekend that the whole hull is vibrating like grounded motor mounts. It’s unacceptable and I’ll be addressing it with the dealer on Saturday. It’s bad enough I lost my voice trying to have a conversation while underway. Hopefully your dealer will find the issue and correct it for you. These boats are gorgeous. Don’t lose hope, think positive. Love thy Yammy.

I did sell it the Yamaha. Bought a 1996 Rinker with a 4.3 Merc Thunderbolt, no tears or stains and no cracks in the gel coat, I paid a little over Blue Book but I feel I did all right given the market, and I paid cash, so no interest. I did drive to look at a lot of boats that were junk that people were asking lots of money for, so you have to shop and be careful. I tell ya, first time on the water with the Rinker and the boat flew! And we can talk while under way. Lovin it! This boat rips!

Also; I suspect there are many people on this site solely to promote Yamaha boats. Thats jut what I've come to believe about it, I don't have any proof. Yamaha has done a good job of generating hype about these big jet skis.

 

[bruue1]

One other question, how much weight do you have in the bow? These 190’s are very sensitive to weight up front, if you move the weight behind the windshield your top speed and slow steering will be greatly improved.

I sold that boat and bought one with a 4.3 Merc engine. I didn't want to spend all that money to spend all my time inventing work arounds for no power. My new used Rinker with a 4.3 hauls ass! And we can talk while flyin. This was an expensive lesson for me, at least I learned it well.