Are 1.8s ( 360 HP ) really enough power ?

[yam240sx]

Theres an old saying " theres no replacement for displacement " seeing all these out board guys with twin 350s and 400s totaling 700 , 800 hp !! supercharging 1.8s is ehhh ... maybe yamaha should start putting in 2.2s or something with bigger impellers and housings ... thoughts ?

 

[fatboyroy]

I think twin 1.8 on 21ft is ideal.

 

[Evil Sports]

My 212 is a ripper with 2x1.8s

 

[yam240sx]

mine rips too .. but maybe its "time " for yamaha to update and grow with times .. bigger impellers . bigger engines ...

 

[tdonoughue]

Thoughts:

This is really I think a much more complex topic than many may credit. Seems to me it will depend on not only the length of the craft, but the weight, hull shape, beam--even freeboard (and/or how high the hull sits on plane). Current, wind speed and direction... I am sure there is also something to the impeller size, intake path efficiency.... etc.

I think it would be very tough to conclude that size X is what you need for length Y boat, even when you just look at Yamahas.

 

[yam240sx]

I know the outboard guys look at our boats as toys .

 

[octavio3311]

I believe that MAYBE Yamaha should look at an update of some sort in the future. I can see a 2.0L or a 2.5L which is common across the car world.
BUT - I will say - my twin 1.8’s absolutely RIP. I have yet to come across a challenge that I have not been able to meet. I’ve put down many 5.7’s, 6.0’s, 6.2’s, a 7.4 and my brothers 350OB. Yes - some of those will do more than 60 - my buddies bass boat with a 300OB does 70mph+. But out of the hole - I got them everytime. All day.

 

[yam240sx]

twin 2.2s with updated internals (lighter stronger ect maybe higher reving ) with bigger Impellers ..

1.8s are legendary but are dinosaurs now

 

[HangOutdoors]

That would be hot. 2.2's instead of the 1.8's and then put the 1.8's in replacing the TR-1's. If I had to take a wild guess, when they go to a 22' model, which would most likely be the next major revision and scrap the 21' footers, that would be the time to introduce a new engine. No way they would put the TR-1 3 cylinder in a 22' boat that weighs probably another 300 or more pounds. It wouldn't be good. Price is going to kick pretty good, I would bet if it happened.

 

[octavio3311]

Funny story.
I put them all down, so they stopped asking me. They call me jet ski on steroids.
So 1 day in a cove, my buddies were throwing down the challenge. It was a 21’ Crownline with a 5.7 vs a 23’ Cobalt with a 6.0 vs a 24’ Chapparell with a 7.4.
Chapparell dude was talking WAY too much junk. So while they were jabbing away (keep in mind we’ve known eachother and our families for 15 years) - I swim behind Chapparell dude and tie a Home Depot 5 gallon bucket to 1 of his transom loops.
Challenge is thrown - idle out to end of cove. I will drop the flag. I drop - Crownie and Cobalt take off. Chapparell can’t break loose. Lot of noise with his captain call exhaust - but no propulsion. He’s perplexed. Crownie wins.
Everyone comes back in formation.!
I let Chapparell sulk for a good 1/2 hour before I showed him the bucket still tied to his transom loop.

 

[octavio3311]

twin 2.2s with updated internals (lighter stronger ect maybe higher reving ) with bigger Impellers ..

1.8s are legendary but are dinosaurs now

I agree.

 

[212s]

Theres an old saying " theres no replacement for displacement " seeing all these out board guys with twin 350s and 400s totaling 700 , 800 hp !! supercharging 1.8s is ehhh ... maybe yamaha should start putting in 2.2s or something with bigger impellers and housings ... thoughts ?

More is always nicer - ripping around at 70mph+ is nice but hull design is a big factor in going fast and our hulls are not made for those speeds. Yamaha would have to add a lot more reinforcement and weight, hull shape, deadrise, bigger engines, etc., jacking up the price a lot too. At that point you might as well buy the boat made for that scenario - there's a reason a 70mph Baja weighs twice as much and costs 4x as much as our boats. And all those CC's with twin/trip/quad outboards are big, heavy, and expensive too. Sure they have hundreds of hp but the boats weigh 10k lbs and need all that power to get up and go.

I'm more than happy with the small and light twin 1.8's in our 212s - she launches like a scared rabbit on steroids and mid-range punch still brings a grin to my face every time as we leave most other boats behind. The only times we actually use the full power though is ripping on to plane and the occasional WOT run. 99% of the time we're at no wake, or tubing, or cruising speeds (25-30mph). I used to punch it to plane, but 6000 rpm is plenty of power to jump up and take off. No need for all that extra hp with our boats.

 

[212s]

1.8s are legendary but are dinosaurs now

The engines are not the same old original design - Yamaha has been updating over the years. For instance the intake manifold and throttle body is larger and lighter than before. The ribbon is substantially bigger too...I'm still debating if the ribbon delete is even needed on newer engines.

I bought a jetboat in large part BECAUSE of the smaller, lighter engines. If all I wanted was top speed, I'd buy a performance speed boat built for that. If I wanted a comfortable cabin for sleeping, I'd buy a cruiser. If I wanted a large deck for a party boat, I'd buy a pontoon...etc.

 

[wTheOnew]

A single 425 XTO costs almost as much as I paid for my boat. Can't imagine there are many boats out there sporting two of those at a price anywhere near what anyone on here paid.

Can't say there are any boats on my lake that are similar in price that are as fast. Definitely many boats out there with a lot larger engines that cost a lot more that are significantly slower.

 

[zipper]

I know the outboard guys look at our boats as toys .

Well then, just try the shallow water challenge. Step 1, know the shallows. Water depth, bottom condition, logs etc. Step 2, get on plane and run thru 12" of water while the big mouth has to raise his OB or lower unit and walk it thru the shallows. Step 3, you arrive at the same marina as the big mouth 15 minutes before him, he docks and comes over to you and asks, "how did you do that"? My reply was, as I chuckled "It's a jetboat". His last comment "Wow, I did not know you could do that.

That is how it went leaving the Sandbar State Park in 2018. We went under the bridge in no wake speed, he was right behind me, but while I was still in the channel, I "hit it" and got up on plane before I got to the 12" deep water, I know this area and had just come thru the other way a couple of hours before. I skipped across the shallows at speed while he had to raise his lower unit and walk thru below knee deep water. I had the boat all put away and covered by the time he got back to the marina with his rooster tail between his legs.

This picture was taken in 2016 when it dried up. Two Pro Bass boats with big OB's, in a tournament, were pulled off this sandbar this past Saturday in 6" of water. You can give them all a black eye, just know what you are getting into and what your boat can do.

This is a bit too shallow to try, lol, I paddle boarded under the bridge with the Yamaha on the other side.

 

[yam240sx]

Well then, just try the shallow water challenge. Step 1, know the shallows. Water depth, bottom condition, logs etc. Step 2, get on plane and run thru 12" of water while the big mouth has to raise his OB or lower unit and walk it thru the shallows. Step 3, you arrive at the same marina as the big mouth 15 minutes before him, he docks and comes over to you and asks, "how did you do that"? My reply was, as I chuckled "It's a jetboat". His last comment "Wow, I did not know you could do that.

That is how it went leaving the Sandbar State Park in 2018. We went under the bridge in no wake speed, but while I was still in the channel, I "hit it" and got up on plane before I got to the 12" deep water, I know this area and had just come thru the other way a couple of hours before. I skipped across the shallows at speed while he had to raise his lower unit and walk thru below knee deep water. I had the boat all put away and covered by the time he got back to the marina with his rooster tail between his legs.

This picture was taken in 2016 when it dried up. Two Pro Bass boats with big OB's, in a tournament, were pulled off this sandbar this past Saturday in 6" of water. You can give them all a black eye, just know what you are getting into and what your boat can do.

This is a bit too shallow to try, lol, I paddle boarded under the bridge with the Yamaha on the other side.

View attachment 156137

dude i would never even attempt this jet boat or not ..

 

[1WetBoat]

I believe that if Yamaha doesn't upgrade the powerplants for waverunner's i doubt we will see an update on our boats first. These powerplant designs have come from the wave runner world first and migrated over to us.

The Coast Guard limits the speed on waverunners to under 70 as part of a gentleman's agreement so it makes no sense to build a larger powerplant just to stick under 70mph. Right now Yamaha has the largest displacement at 1.8, Kawasaki is at 1.4 and Rotax/SeaDoo is at 1.6.

 

[anmut]

There's a bigger factor IMHO - that's maintenance. High displacement engines require more upkeep. The 1.8's are pretty set-and-forget motors. Lot's of punch for the money! Where I think Yamaha could make some improvements in performance is the drive system - the pumps themselves should be looked at from an engineering standpoint for improvements in efficiency, power, planing ability, and control. Jet fighters have variable fins on the rear of their engines - why not the same principle on a water pump?

 

[Wake_Dude]

Overall I'm happy with the way this little boat performs. Would be nice to have more bite down low, but I can't complain.

Now, my midlife crisis boat is gonna be a 22' Liberator with a Merc 450R on the back. That will give me enough scoot. LOL

 

[Ronnie]

Isn’t 180 hp what the NA (non CA) 1.8s put out and the SC 1.8s put out 220hp to 240hp? If so at least a few of the new models (270 and 252) put out 440hp to 480hp, correct?