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Bimini 2018

bronze_10

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The data:
So I took the liberty of a looking at each interval on @Bruce's inreach ( Propless) and recorded speed. I also did the same for my inreach ( Yonder ). For mine I also had 2 minute intervals. I started the first observation east of port everglades and stopped at the last observation before making temporary stop outside Bimini Sands. The 10 MI ( minute intervals) I tried to match them as closely as possible between the 2 boats based on proximity of the coordinates.

Boat similarities:
I also included some key metrics which in my opinion show that both boats had more or less the same weight load.

Why go through the trouble?
After Bimini there was some discussion about fuel consumption and how we could explain the variability between someone running out of fuel 10 miles prior to Bimini and other using less than 70% of the fuel supply. The top 5 attributes seemed to be:
  • speed
  • steady hand
  • weight load of the boat
  • new engines Vs. old engines
  • tabs vs no tabs
How did examine each attribute?
  • speed = speed from inreach explorer ( line 1 on the table)
  • steady hand = standard deviation of speed ( line 2 on the table)
  • weight load of the boat = (lines 5,6,7 on the table)
  • new engines Vs. old engines = lines 8 on the table
  • tabs vs no tabs = I asked and we all had tabs deployed 100% for the majority of the trip.
Observations:
  • clearly the average speed between the 2 boats is very very close. This makes sense as both boats where part of same group. Speed on its own does not seem to explain the difference in consumption.
  • the variability on speed between the 2 boats is 1.6% ( 2.76 vs 2.72) which indicates that the speed variability between the 2 boats was very similar. These results will not support the "steady hand effect" as a explanation for the variability in fuel consumption. Furthermore,we can say 70% of the times the speed of the boats was between 11.77mph and 17.29mph
  • Given the size of the boats and occupants and baggage I want to say that both boats were very similar. Hence, the weight on its own is not explaining the 15 gallon difference in fuel.
  • clearly here there is a difference on the engines. I would have a hard time believing that the newer engines are 44% more efficient than the old ones, let alone believing that the older ones are 44% more efficient than the new ones. Although, statistically someone could attribute the difference in fuel to the engines I disagree. Further soouport on my argument is that @swatski has the same new angines as me and consumed less than 40 gallons.
  • I had my trim tabs ( 12x12) deployed 100% for about 95% of the trip. As fara s I know @Bruce has the same metrics. From what I recall Swatski ( 9x16) had the same metrics
Conclusion:
In my opinion the only consistent difference between Yonder and Propless way that I took waves and the way that Bruce did. I recall that the first hour of the trip my fuel needle was moving rather fast and the remaining 3 hour it was rather steadier. Given the results results that I am seeing here, I am more and more inclined to believe that I was battling the waves while Bruce was skimming them. Especially given the second part of the trip where I was hitting clean water. I am sure for the seasoned this conclusion is obvious, but for me I needed the data. And so far the data cannot disprove it.

Footnote 1: I touched my throttles very very few times. I deliberately avoided touching them that is why I was not 100% sold on the "steady hand" ( I am sure there is argument to me made here that steady does not equal do not touch the throttle) and that is why I was itchy to see the st. deviation on speed.
Footnote 2: notice that the st. dev on speed between 2 Minute Interval & 10 Minute Interval on the Yonder !!!! The difference between boats is 1.6% whereas the difference within Yonder is 12.6%. I would expect to this difference to increase but by a 10 fold it just too much. Given this info, someone could argue that I have not disproved the "steady hand effect". My come back will be that the 10 MI interval between the boats are random and therefore representative. The this other person will say that I am full of sh!t and the only way to proof anything is to run an experiment in 2018. To which I will agree 100% :D


Final note for the newbie who is making the 2018 crossing. No matter how comforting Emma's life jack might look 50 feet in-front of you, put some more space between the lead boat and your boat.


View attachment 65692

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Sooo... uhhh... am i gonna need to take extra fuel or nah? That was way over my head!
 

Bruce

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Betik

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Sooo... uhhh... am i gonna need to take extra fuel or nah? That was way over my head!
No need for extra fuel on a properly function boat.
Unfortunately, I do not have enough data to be 100% certain .
If I were to go, I will bring 10 to 15 gallons (just as a piece of mind and just in case we have a 192 in our group). I personally tern to over compensate. For example, if I were to go again, I will probably have 2 fixed VHF and 2 GPS units. The Bermuda triangle is real .....:eek:

How was that for a straight forward answer? LOL
 

swatski

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robert843

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Sooo... uhhh... am i gonna need to take extra fuel or nah? That was way over my head!
No @bronze_10 you will not need fuel not likely we will cross in conditions that require extra fuel. As long as you leave with a true full tank (you don't go cruising the day before and do not fill up when pulling into Bahia Mar for the night) you will be fine but nothing wrong with carrying an extra 5 gallons as a security blanket if you feel more comfortable.
 

swatski

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I'm not sure if that's important, but FWIW I did not have my tabs deployed all the way. Probably 30-40% for about 2/3 of the way, but in some roughest parts I had them pulled up/retracted completely as I was more concerned with stuffing the bow. (we were the last group out and got hit pretty hard for the first hour/hour and a half, with some 6-8ft easily for a period of time)
 

robert843

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I'm not sure if that's important, but FWIW I did not have my tabs deployed all the way. Probably 30-40% for about 2/3 of the way, but in some roughest parts I had them pulled up/retracted completely as I was more concerned with stuffing the bow. (we were the last group out and got hit pretty hard for the first hour/hour and a half, with some 6-8ft easily for a period of time)
We did notice there was a noticeable fuel burn difference with tabs deployed versus not this year on the Abaco trip.
 

Bruce

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My tabs were heavily deployed for most of the 2017 crossing when I burned 38 gallons and perhaps 1/3rd deployed in 2015 when I burned 34 gallons.
 

Bruce

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No @bronze_10 you will not need fuel not likely we will cross in conditions that require extra fuel. As long as you leave with a true full tank (you don't go cruising the day before and do not fill up when pulling into Bahia Mar for the night) you will be fine but nothing wrong with carrying an extra 5 gallons as a security blanket if you feel more comfortable.
While we are unlikely to cross under conditions where a second generation 230 might need extra fuel we have twice crossed in conditions where other Yamaha's needed extra fuel. For anyone who plans to carry extra fuel please do so safely.
 

Betik

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@robert843 I agree but was it 20% more? 11 gallons more for 60 mile trip.....

@swatski original I started with 0% tab but after going a couple of times air born with hard landings ( see Bruce video minute 1:15) I decided I should protect the boat. The only thing that I can say with certainty was that we were fully prepared was to take in water. The maximum height my crew reported was about 6 inches in the cockpit. To put things in perspective we took so much water that besides the vacuum bags everything else in the boat was wet. Regardless on the compartment. Even the aft storage had wet items. The ski locker probably was an aquarium ...

So yes I agree that 100% turn you to a sub. I did have the bow cover on but after the storm it had turned to great flag that was flopping uncontrolably.

I think we were lucky with no 8 footers although they were a couple of times where all I could see was the Bimini from Bruce's boat. Sarah actually had to stand up in order to ensure visual contact with his boat.

Fun times. LOL
 

bronze_10

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No need for extra fuel on a properly function boat.
Unfortunately, I do not have enough data to be 100% certain .
If I were to go, I will bring 10 to 15 gallons (just as a piece of mind and just in case we have a 192 in our group). I personally tern to over compensate. For example, if I were to go again, I will probably have 2 fixed VHF and 2 GPS units. The Bermuda triangle is real .....:eek:

How was that for a straight forward answer? LOL
I can relate to a dumbed down answer better! Lol
 

Drift Away

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The data:
So I took the liberty of a looking at each interval on @Bruce's inreach ( Propless) and recorded speed. I also did the same for my inreach ( Yonder ). For mine I also had 2 minute intervals. I started the first observation east of port everglades and stopped at the last observation before making temporary stop outside Bimini Sands. The 10 MI ( minute intervals) I tried to match them as closely as possible between the 2 boats based on proximity of the coordinates.

Boat similarities:
I also included some key metrics which in my opinion show that both boats had more or less the same weight load.

Why go through the trouble?
After Bimini there was some discussion about fuel consumption and how we could explain the variability between someone running out of fuel 10 miles prior to Bimini and other using less than 70% of the fuel supply. The top 5 attributes seemed to be:
  • speed
  • steady hand
  • weight load of the boat
  • new engines Vs. old engines
  • tabs vs no tabs
How did examine each attribute?
  • speed = speed from inreach explorer ( line 1 on the table)
  • steady hand = standard deviation of speed ( line 2 on the table)
  • weight load of the boat = (lines 5,6,7 on the table)
  • new engines Vs. old engines = lines 8 on the table
  • tabs vs no tabs = I asked and we all had tabs deployed 100% for the majority of the trip.
Observations:
  • clearly the average speed between the 2 boats is very very close. This makes sense as both boats where part of same group. Speed on its own does not seem to explain the difference in consumption.
  • the variability on speed between the 2 boats is 1.6% ( 2.76 vs 2.72) which indicates that the speed variability between the 2 boats was very similar. These results will not support the "steady hand effect" as a explanation for the variability in fuel consumption. Furthermore,we can say 70% of the times the speed of the boats was between 11.77mph and 17.29mph
  • Given the size of the boats and occupants and baggage I want to say that both boats were very similar. Hence, the weight on its own is not explaining the 11 gallon difference in fuel.
  • clearly here there is a difference on the engines. I would have a hard time believing that the newer engines are 29% more efficient than the old ones, let alone believing that the older ones are 29% more efficient than the new ones. Although, statistically someone could attribute the difference in fuel to the engines I disagree. Further soouport on my argument is that @swatski has the same new angines as me and consumed less than 40 gallons.
  • I had my trim tabs ( 12x12) deployed 100% for about 95% of the trip. As fara s I know @Bruce has the same metrics. From what I recall Swatski ( 9x16) had the same metrics
Conclusion:
In my opinion the only consistent difference between Yonder and Propless way that I took waves and the way that Bruce did. I recall that the first hour of the trip my fuel needle was moving rather fast and the remaining 3 hour it was rather steadier. Given the results results that I am seeing here, I am more and more inclined to believe that I was battling the waves while Bruce was skimming them. Especially given the second part of the trip where I was hitting clean water. I am sure for the seasoned this conclusion is obvious, but for me I needed the data. And so far the data cannot disprove it.

Footnote 1: I touched my throttles very very few times. I deliberately avoided touching them that is why I was not 100% sold on the "steady hand" ( I am sure there is argument to me made here that steady does not equal do not touch the throttle) and that is why I was itchy to see the st. deviation on speed.
Footnote 2: notice that the st. dev on speed between 2 Minute Interval & 10 Minute Interval on the Yonder !!!! The difference between boats is 1.6% whereas the difference within Yonder is 12.6%. I would expect to this difference to increase but by a 10 fold it just too much. Given this info, someone could argue that I have not disproved the "steady hand effect". My come back will be that the 10 MI interval between the boats are random and therefore representative. The this other person will say that I am full of sh!t and the only way to proof anything is to run an experiment in 2018. To which I will agree 100% :D


Final note for the newbie who is making the 2018 crossing. No matter how comforting Emma's life jack might look 50 feet in-front of you, put some more space between the lead boat and your boat.


View attachment 65698

View attachment 65693

View attachment 65695
View attachment 65691
Mind blown
Mind-Blow-2.gif
 

Drift Away

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Sooo... uhhh... am i gonna need to take extra fuel or nah? That was way over my head!
After my Experience last year come hell or high water (pun Intended) ill be taking 10 Gallons without question.
 

Bruce

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@Julian, @Betik in 2015 on the second attempt all the boats formed into a duck trail running in the wake of the boat ahead at 9 mph. I found that if I moved to the clean water at the side my boat would accelerate to 14 mph at the same RPM. Tim H's boat was somewhere ahead of me. I ran to the side of the group a lot in the first half and finished the second half on my own. That duck trail was ineffecient and uncomfortable. I burned 35 gallons on that's crossing. Some boats who stayed in the duck trail ran out of fuel others arrived very low after accelerating in the second half.
 

robert843

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@robert843 I agree but was it 20% more?
20% seems about accurate. @Bruce numbers appear to indicate about the same as he had a 10% difference between full deployment and partial deployment so I would bet the was another 10% difference between partial and not using the tabs. In 2016 the boats had plenty of fuel left between the run from Bimini to Chub Cay about 100 miles this year using the tabs the boats arrived in Spanish Cay about 100 miles from West End on fumes literally both had maybe a gallon or two left in the tank.
 

Andy S

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20% seems about accurate. @Bruce numbers appear to indicate about the same as he had a 10% difference between full deployment and partial deployment so I would bet the was another 10% difference between partial and not using the tabs. In 2016 the boats had plenty of fuel left between the run from Bimini to Chub Cay about 100 miles this year using the tabs the boats arrived in Spanish Cay about 100 miles from West End on fumes literally both had maybe a gallon or two left in the tank.
To go along with what @robert843 said, the 2016 Bimini to Chub Cay run had much rougher seas than the 2017 West End to Spanish Cay run. I suspect that if we had tabs for the 2016 Bimini to Chub Cay run we might have run out of fuel just short of Chub Cay.
 

Speedling

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What is meant by battling waves vs skimming them exactly?
I mean, basically what fo we need to do according to your data
 

Speedling

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Or was that all a fancy way of saying get tabs people?
 
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