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Blue Yonder Stereo Upgrade

David Analog

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OrangeTJ,
One of the things that Mel is accomplishing is that he is running acoustic suspension while being able to also run direct-radiation.
Typically with the much larger bass-reflex enclosure, woofer surface area plus port surface area, direct-radiation is difficult when and if it is even possible. Retracting the enclosure back into the console and using a detached vent creates more than enough losses and phasing issues to offset the benefit of bass-reflex. A direct-radiating port can invite water into the enclosure and certainly means more fiberglass modification over a greater area.
In the end, I believe Mel will have much sharper bass tonal construction with his approach. Not because of any inherent advantage of acoustic suspension over bass-reflex but because of the application in the boat.
 

txav8r

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I am making a little progress here. I finally filled the floor recess that holds the cooler in the 240 boats. That was in my way to having a clean install for the subwoofer enclosure. I won't repeat all the process of how I did it here. I will post a few pics of it here because it is relevant to how to do the sub in this boat in an enclosure.
The issue was filling that cooler hole so the sub enclosure had some support in the back corner to keep it from flexing the wall to the compartment where it is located. I finished this yesterday. Here are a few pics of that.
image-10.jpg image-11.jpg
And here is the thread to the build for this false floor, it includes how to support the back corner of the sub enclosure as well.
Filling the cooler hole in the compartment floor
 

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txav8r

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I also finished covering the enclosure in carpet. I didn't carpet the bottom of the cabinet or the speaker mounting face. The face is sealed against the interior if the wall, and the bottom not only can't be seen, but I want a solid surface to mount the HDPE feet to.
image.jpg image.jpg
 

redthumper9

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@txav8r ......did you ever install the mx650's in the combing pockets? I know you were considering it at one time. I am considering another pair for the cabin and I wanted to see if you determined they would fit or not.
 

txav8r

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I have not yet but I am trying to keep from Adding more upgrades before finishing the last one! I have all the components, the only thing in my way is the subwoofer. It has slowed me down but I am ready to get it done.
 

txav8r

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Subwoofer enclosure or IB sub speaker ring mount to wall:

@Addicted had asked me a question regarding my sub placement and this setup. He mentioned that I did not talk about how to install my enclosure in this thread. I haven't finished the install yet, so I had not posted anything on it yet. Until I do, here is how I intend to install the enclosure.

With either an IB (infinite baffle or free air) or an acoustic suspension enclosed sub, optimum placement would be the same. Getting 100% of the grille area into the listening environment will get 100% of the sub involved in musical reproductive support. Anything short of that is well, short of that. So choosing to to with a sealed enclosure vs IB would be a waste of time and money if I didn't achieve at least that. I won't get into ported designs as they just fall short of this as well. The mounting to follow gets 100% of what a 10" JL marine sub can deliver. The only way to get more bass is to have greater driver surface area (bigger sub or more of them), and/or more power behind the sub(s). Consider that putting a sound system in an open air boat is already a compromise of sorts, but life is full of compromise.

My mount will be the same as my IB install was in the Nauti Dawg, with the wall of the compartment sandwiched between the speaker itself, and either the birch speaker ring (IB sub), or the sealed enclosure (AS sub). In the Dawg, it was a speaker ring that the sub was secured to, not the wall. In the Blue Yonder, it will be the enclosure that the sub is secured to, not the wall. The enclosure with hole cut for the sub will sit flush against the interior wall of the compartment. It will be braced and supported from underneath to let it sit flush. The angles are not square, and the wall surface is fiberglass and not smooth. So I have used a grinder to just take the surface down a tad and will seal the box to the wall using silicone between them. Two screws will hold the box to the wall and in place, until the speaker is installed to actually sandwich the wall. The key is that nothing in this speaker mount is connected to the wall. Because the tremendous excursion of that driver will flex and crack a fiberglass wall easily if it is expected to carry the load placed on it. In other words, it can't carry that load long term. So you mount this speaker so that the wall is not part of the connection, and is merely sandwiched between the box and the speaker. I have said that now about 4 times in this post alone, because it is often missed and important to understand that having mounting screws that bite into the wall will chip/crack/splinter/spider and cause visible cracks in the wall eventually...and worse, it will counteract the travel of the speaker and you will lose performance from it. So mounting it where that won't happen is important. The way to do that, is to oversize all of the speaker mounting holes through the wall. So that the speaker mounting screw passes through the holes, and does not hold to the wall. The screw will hold to the box, not the wall. This requires test fitting and brings to mind, the chicken and the egg theory. Once the box is mounted and secured, you can't get behind it, but you need to align, drill, and check all of this. So set and drill your wall for the speaker mounting holes and make sure they don't hold and can be pulled out from the wall first. And very important...make sure you countersink and deburr all the edges of any hole through fiberglass to prevent it from chipping and spider cracking. Now that you know the mounting screws go through the wall and don't bite in it, you can silicone and secure the box for mounting. The speaker will mount to the box, through the wall, without the teeth of the screws pulling on the wall and cracking it.

I will take pics of the sub going in as I do it but I hope this helps some of you that have inquired how I was going to mount this box in the compartment.
 

Williamsone46

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Is this stereo ever going to done @txav8r?
 

txav8r

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@Williamsone46 the end of season was messed up with schedule and family stuff that took a precedence. But admittedly, getting out in the boat when it's cold had been a deterant as well as off season not pressing getting it done. It wi be ready for the spring!
 

Williamsone46

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Oh I see. Well we're all excited to see it.
 

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None more excited than me!
 

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Bump! ;););)
 

txav8r

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So some progress now. I wanted to do the transom speakers at the same time I did the new Garmin 70S because mounting the transducer was going to require removing the clean out tray. And that gets a new weatherstripping instead of caulking every time it is removed. This is the first on the 240 and I bet I removed it 7 times on the 230, and bought weather stripping to make removal SO MUCH EASIER. I just never got it installed before selling it. So @DawgDaze and @Suchawittygal have that challenge...but I am going back together with this one so I can just unscrew and remove.

So while I was doing the thru hull transducer, I mapped out and cut the holes for the transom speakers, drilled for them, and countersunk. You always want to countersink screw holes or they will spider or chip. Here is some Blue Yonder Stereo Upgrade Progress!!!
IMG_5103.jpeg IMG_3735.jpeg IMG_3893.jpeg IMG_9237.jpeg
 

DCB-270

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That is a clean cut out.
 

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Mel ( @txav8r ): Nice workmanship. What tool and/or technique did you use to obtain such even and "clean" speaker cut-outs ?
 

txav8r

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I located and measured 15 times (exaggeration but I made damn sure it would fit and not touch the exhaust hose or tray lip). There is plenty of clearance by the way, and I could have raised the speakers even higher up on the wall. I was just cautious of the clean out tray extending below the deck behind that wall. I drilled an 1/8" pilot hole through the absolute center of where the speaker would mount, then I used a 5" hole saw on a piloted arbor with a guide bit. I drilled the both in reverse until gelcoat was cut and below, then I gradually cut through with the hole saw in forward. I cleaned up the minor backside splintering with some sandpaper (after the pics were taken), just so I didn't nick myself reaching through. Hole saws are your best option for a clean cut. But when you do a big hole like the subwoofer, your going to have to...(best) use a template following guide with a router, (next best) use a jigsaw to cut short of your cutline, and then clean with dremel or drum sander to the cut line. The "next best" is how I have done other irregular or large holes in fiberglass, but it is a slower process.
image.jpg
 

txav8r

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I might add, that a hole saw is often the only choice you have to cut holes for speakers in tight locations. This is because you may not have enough surface to support running any other tool that has a base or "foot", or you don't have clearance to make turns with overhanging walls or other obstructions. The technique you use with a hole saw, described above is as important as the tool itself. Taping, that you can see, but I didn't mention, also helps in keeping the area nick free. The only blemish in either of those two holes were caused around the screw holes, and that was the collar on my countersink putting a swirl mark around the holes, which won't hurt anything and is behind the flush mount speaker anyway. I haven't preset the screws yet but I will. You always want to drill the screw into fiberglass by hand if you can to set a "thread" before you install them permanently. The fiberglass cracks a tad and power drilling them in can do more of that the first time in.

I am considering these in a very wet area and the sealing that they need. I fully intend to seal the perimeter of the speakers against the wall with life caulk. But I am considering the 6 screw holes on each. @David Analog , would you worry with these? I could fill the holes with caulk and screw into it, but my experience is that it really won't seal the hole. I could come from behind and just fill the edges of the penetrating screw threads with silicone against the wall. These may or may not be easy to get to, so I may be better off just filling the hole and screwing into it. What do you think?
 

txav8r

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Finished the transom speaker install complete with caulking.
image.jpg
image.jpg
I also finished pulling all the wiring and making the ends for the speaker wire. All tied and looked forward to the helm compartment. More to come...
 

Murf'n'surf

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Looks great Mel!

I would seal those raw edges with epoxy also.

Do those speakers have a gasket between them and the gelcoat?
 
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