Clemson Tiger - What should we do?

[Murf'n'surf]

You won't come into my house unless I invite you, but yes you can stand in the street and say whatever you want. Short of threatening someone. Also if he didn't come to somebody's house I think your analogy is the bad one.
I can certainly see how administrators and moderators would be tired of the situation.

There’s rules on the street outside your house. Break them and the authorities have no choice to deal with the calls from the neighbors.

 

[tdonoughue]

I think we may be overlooking that this is @Administrative 's house. They pay for it. They open it. They set the rules. You have been invited over and given a set of expectations for you to stay. I am among the first to defend free speech, but it is never without limits. You come to @Administrative 's house, you follow their rules. Don't like it? Leave the house. Won't leave? They can kick you.

My view, of course. Others remain welcome to their views and to express them, within the rules.

 

[Scottintexas]

Why are we even posting about this? I don't want to know how the sausage is made. The mod's should address this and be done with it. I trust their judgment.

This isn't yamahajetboaters.net and there's no 1st amendment here, we shouldn't let toxic people come here and instigate, He showed how much he wants to participate and be part of the group when he changed all his informative posts to "?"

I would also suggest most of his "likes" were from those post also so the likes to posts ratio doesn't apply anymore.

It's not a good look for our group when new members get greeted with a troll and only encourages or allows others to think it's acceptable.

 

[JDinfla]

There’s rules on the street outside your house. Break them and the authorities have no choice to deal with the calls from the neighbors.

Of course there are laws regarding public disturbances.

 

[JDinfla]

Why are we even posting about this? I don't want to know how the sausage is made. The mod's should address this and be done with it. I trust their judgment.

This isn't yamahajetboaters.net and there's no 1st amendment here, we shouldn't let toxic people come here and instigate, He showed how much he wants to participate and be part of the group when he changed all his informative posts to "?"

I would also suggest most of his "likes" were from those post also so the likes to posts ratio doesn't apply anymore.

It's not a good look for our group when new members get greeted with a troll and only encourages or allows others to think it's acceptable.

definitely understand about trolling the new members, but I thought one of the problems with Yamahajetboaters. Net was banning people they didn't like? I've given my two cents.

 

[Zizzou 192]

I'd call Nanny 911 on this one.

ICE is busy.

 

[seanmclean]

Discussion of laws and constitutional rights are a little silly. This is a privately owned forum in which we are all guests. Nobody is getting banned willy nilly, we were asked our opinion. "We the People" so to speak, have overwhelmingly said that we don't want him on the island, at least temporarily.

Maybe it won't need to come to that, maybe he'll see how we - in general - feel about his conduct. Maybe he'll change, maybe he won't. It's categorically clear that he is not currently appreciated.

 

[Bruce]

I thought one of the problems with Yamahajetboaters. Net was banning people they didn't like? I've given my two cents.

The problem was the secret banning of members, often productive members without reason. That is one of the reasons that we have been so hesitant to ban anyone here.

This would be our first ban in over four years of operation and after significant attempts to ask or convince the member to cooperate.

 

[subysti]

I guess some of the newer members haven't been around long enough to see the full picture. It's one thing to come here and bitch and complain about your boat problems, we all do it at some point that, but then it gets personal after that when you're called stupid for buying the piece of crap, and you drank the punch, blah blah blah. We aren't blind to the fact these aren't perfect boats. He got rid of his jet boat a while ago but still lingers here just to make other feel bad for their purchase and for someone new coming here and being attacked for that is just going to leave. He still says he got rid of his jet boat and bought a proper fishing boat that is worlds better. Constructive criticism is one thing but he just plain bashes people. Time to move on. When I sell something I don't hang around the forums just to bad mouth it. I recently sold all my snowmobiles and gear, first thing I did was to leave the facebook groups and forums as I didn't want to se all the posts on it. just move on.....

 

[MrMoose]

I can't believe we are on page #3 and no one has pitched a steering system to us.

Love that comment @SamCF
I've been attacked in one of those steering system threads. I didn't like it. I "ignored" the source of the attack for a couple of months, then I reconnected, and I'm ok now. I didn't even bother giving the dick a thumbs down. Just call'em a dick and move on. I don't expect @Bruce or @Administrative to correct members's social flaws... it's all two-sided. By that, I've noticed a couple of FSH threads where CT says something that offends FSH owners, and the retaliation gets personal right away. It's two-sided, but CT needs to know better than to play the victim when he starts it. In the three and a half years that I've been on the forum, I've only been offended twice. That's not a bad track record for any forum.

 

[Betik]

I guess some of the newer members haven't been around long enough to see the full picture. It's one thing to come here and bitch and complain about your boat problems, we all do it at some point that, but then it gets personal after that when you're called stupid for buying the piece of crap, and you drank the punch, blah blah blah. We aren't blind to the fact these aren't perfect boats. He got rid of his jet boat a while ago but still lingers here just to make other feel bad for their purchase and for someone new coming here and being attacked for that is just going to leave. He still says he got rid of his jet boat and bought a proper fishing boat that is worlds better. Constructive criticism is one thing but he just plain bashes people. Time to move on. When I sell something I don't hang around the forums just to bad mouth it. I recently sold all my snowmobiles and gear, first thing I did was to leave the facebook groups and forums as I didn't want to se all the posts on it. just move on.....

yeap. @swatski boat tried to kill him and his daughter, but instead of calling us all idiots he put as much of objective description of the situation and offered potential fix on it. That is what I call "constructive". Being called names, I am not sure how it prevents my boat from leaking....

 

[Betik]

I thought we were talking about the Forum I didn't know he was coming to anybody's house and bad-mouthing them

To me this is house of ideas. And the admins kind of own it figuratively and legally, no ?

 

[Betik]

Why are we even posting about this? I don't want to know how the sausage is made. The mod's should address this and be done with it. I trust their judgment.

you know how @Bruce is. Trying to be democratic and fair.

 

[MrMoose]

I think we may be overlooking that this is @Administrative 's house. They pay for it. They open it. They set the rules. You have been invited over and given a set of expectations for you to stay. I am among the first to defend free speech, but it is never without limits. You come to @Administrative 's house, you follow their rules. Don't like it? Leave the house. Won't leave? They can kick you.

My view, of course. Others remain welcome to their views and to express them, within the rules.

@tdonoughue, very well said. Some of what I get the sense of what has been argued regarding the "CT case" is similar to the situation where you're the guy who gets pulled over for speeding and your defense is "I was just following the guy ahead of me. Why didn't you pull him over too."

 

[MrMoose]

Why are we even posting about this?

Cuz it's cheap entertainment for some of us. Sorry, not constructive, but kinda true.

 

[MidnightRider]

Its not hard to be civil, helpful and nice. The rules of this forum are not hard to follow. If someone is breaking the rules and has been warned then IMO that person really doesn't have much interest in being here in a constructive way. Getting kicked out is typically a trollers end game. Personally I'd fall on the side of just ignoring trolls and hope that they get bored with trolling the site. But I do see how it is unfortunate that new users, who many times find this site because they have an issue and are concerned, only to be greeted by someone telling them they have made the worse mistake of their life and now are screwed. That sucks. Sure an admin can jump on the thread and alert the new user to the trolling but that sucks to have to do that as well. So I get it. Just stupid that we have to waste time on something like this. Allowing someone to voice their displeasure and frustration with Yamaha boats is one thing, but to allow them to play on the legitimate concern, fear, frustration of what others are going through just to make themselves feel better is another. IMO at least at times we have seen the latter with CT. How many members do we have now, over how many years the forum has been operating, and over all those members and all those years there is only one member that has been considered for banning? I'd say banning isn't an issue with this site. Banning sucks but doesn't mean it isn't the correct path in some situations.

 

[Grassman]

His comments have caused some newer members to not come back to this site. If you believe in "if you're not growing you're dying", then you are letting someone who doesn't even own or like a jet boat bring down what you have built. If its mostly for the original members then keep him. I will admit, I do not visit the site as frequently as I used to mostly because of his comments. I choose to avoid that kind of negativity. Even on an internet forum

 

[gmtech16450yz]

Are you aware that CT deleted hundreds of his posts a while ago after he acted up and was confronted about proper forum etiquette?

No, I did not know that. And that's a huge factor. Yes, of course that changes my view of his post count/like count. Especially if the posts he deleted were helpful posts. That's f'd up. Being passionate is one thing. Being an @ss is something completely different.

Quote from Bruce...

"Unfortunately the vast majority of moderation work on the forum is created by a single user and I in particular have grown tired of wasting my time dealing with him."

Bruce, you've already gone above and beyond what is expected of you and the other admins/mods. I'm changing my vote, I say BAN HIM AND BE DONE WITH THIS.

 

[swatski]

I find it very difficult if not impossible to argue with @Scottintexas's points (he's right on)

Why are we even posting about this? I don't want to know how the sausage is made. The mod's should address this and be done with it. I trust their judgment.

This isn't yamahajetboaters.net and there's no 1st amendment here, we shouldn't let toxic people come here and instigate, He showed how much he wants to participate and be part of the group when he changed all his informative posts to "?"

I would also suggest most of his "likes" were from those post also so the likes to posts ratio doesn't apply anymore.

It's not a good look for our group when new members get greeted with a troll and only encourages or allows others to think it's acceptable.

Still, I am against banning in this case...
but that's just me
I admire the Admins here and their judgement, whatever the decision, they have gone above and beyond to accommodate a member going rouge.

--

 

[Mainah]

@Administrative all have their own personal views just as we all do. In their role they strive to put bias and polarizing opinion aside. I have great respect for the time they donate. Granted this is something they have passion for themselves but in that role it is a job as well that may take away some of their enjoyment of it. As much as I love this site it will never be a role I would volunteer for.

It must of taken a lot to push this group of admins to this point. I could go on and on with less than stellar adjectives describing @ClemsonTiger as I do not have his content blocked. That said he is a person and we all know the direct and salty type. A good friend of mine is that type and when I need it straight I call him. If that friend ever went this far with conduct on a public forum I would be upset with him to say the least.

- Banning someone or censoring content can be a slippery slope once started.

-Not removing something rotten leads to more rotting.

The success of this site is in largepart because of the code of conduct and @Administrative. It is not easy but I say permanent Ban as I don’t believe a temporary one will change this tigers stripes.