Cobra steering, choppy at slow speed

[anmut]

Just off the top of my head, I would think that "choppiness" is being caused by the fins "bouncing" at certain speeds and not settling in. Is it possible the springs have lost their tension a little?

 

[RobbieO]

Just off the top of my head, I would think that "choppiness" is being caused by the fins "bouncing" at certain speeds and not settling in. Is it possible the springs have lost their tension a little?

Not possible. As Jeff stated in quote #16, never a problem in over a decade. Not a single one.

 

[2kwik4u]

Just off the top of my head, I would think that "choppiness" is being caused by the fins "bouncing" at certain speeds and not settling in. Is it possible the springs have lost their tension a little?

Most likely it's the thrust "bouncing" the reverse gate at low speeds. Never had fins on my boat (doubt I ever will), and my throttle "bounces" at No Wake speeds when it's placed in "full forward" position. You can watch the throttle lever "bounce" as the reverse bucket is rattling around back there.

I'll get a video of it the next time I'm out and about. Might try and take a couple while I'm in the garage tonight.

I'm like 95% convinced it's just slop in the directional control cable attachment points. Just doesn't bother me quite enough to address it. IMO, all the of the cable end attachments have overly loose tolerances in the assembly. I suspect my excessively loose steering is caused by this as well.

 

[anmut]

Not possible. As Jeff stated in quote #16, never a problem in over a decade. Not a single one.

LOL well that satisfies my curiosity.

Also, since springs "wear out" by the compression/uncompressing of them, it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy that, once a spring started to behave in a way that it would bounce more, that it will continue to wear itself out faster.

I'd be interested to know what would happen if Jeff sent a new set of springs, if that would cure the issue.

 

[anmut]

Most likely it's the thrust "bouncing" the reverse gate at low speeds. Never had fins on my boat (doubt I ever will), and my throttle "bounces" at No Wake speeds when it's placed in "full forward" position. You can watch the throttle lever "bounce" as the reverse bucket is rattling around back there.

I'll get a video of it the next time I'm out and about. Might try and take a couple while I'm in the garage tonight.

I'm like 95% convinced it's just slop in the directional control cable attachment points. Just doesn't bother me quite enough to address it. IMO, all the of the cable end attachments have overly loose tolerances in the assembly. I suspect my excessively loose steering is caused by this as well.

That could very well be too. That would be something easy to check out of the water - put the gates up past the first two detents, then go back and check the buckets for slop.

 

[2kwik4u]

That could very well be too. That would be something easy to check out of the water - put the gates up past the first two detents, then go back and check the buckets for slop.

I bet you find a TON of slop in that cable connection.

Again, I've thought of rebuilding/redesigning that connection, but it bothers my just enough to be annoyed every time I'm out, but not enough to actually remedy it.

 

[anmut]

I bet you find a TON of slop in that cable connection.

Again, I've thought of rebuilding/redesigning that connection, but it bothers my just enough to be annoyed every time I'm out, but not enough to actually remedy it.

I've checked mine, especially when I'm messing around with the cobra fins trying to tune them, there's maybe 1/4" of slop. But I've never felt a choppy throttle at any speed.

 

[KyleP]

I’m interested not about the topic generally, there are pros and cons to every boat upgrade/modification, but for Jeff’s response.

In.. and as expected

 

[Ronnie]

I will check more closely for premature wear caused by my cobra fins and will post pics later today. Only because now I want to know if I am experiencing such a problem but I strongly suspect that I am not. I had the first gen fins on my last boat, no spring, and have had my latest fins installed on my current boat since they were released, so many years now. As far as I know everything is fine, even after I had to replace some cobra fin parts to get the thrust diverters installed. Jeff sold me those parts at a steep discount by the way knowing why I needed them (integrating JBP products with his own). If I was in Jeff’s position I don’t know that I would have done the same. Not sure if JBP would have either.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Guys I know exactly what is wrong with the original poster's setup and I already told him twice how to fix it and by the way the springs do not wear out the only problem with the spring is if it is installed incorrectly, my issue is that I always ask for pictures if someone has a problem that way I am sure of the cause. I also find it amusing that people went from the chop in the fins to the spring . When in use properly in all time mode that spring does not do much of anything except work as a back up if there is a loss of thrust to keep the fins down. as for the settings on the super fins all the settings from 1 to 6 are to vary the high speed influence , because the only part of the fin making contact with the water at speed is what is below the bottom of the nozzle.
Each setting as it goes down the line of holes raises the bottom of the fin and decreases the high speed influence however ALL the fin surface is in the water when you slow down off plane just by the hulls lower position in the water. If someone sets the fins on the super version in the 6 and 7 position they may have some vibration because they have the large plaining surface on the system, if they want no high speed assistance they should use the other settings or change out the plaining surface to the smaller one so the actuator can drop down a bit further and make sure it clears the water exiting the nozzle. That same water exiting the nozzle is what holds the actuator and fins down at speed not the spring. Remember I have over 55 years of boating and 20 years of designing and patenting jet boat steering . Anyone who ever had a question about their installation or operation of their steering was welcome to ask me directly and I will always ask for pictures so I can review the installation and occasionally I do find errors in the install. I also occasionally find people who argue or refuse to listen and sadly there is little I can do for them.

 

[Wake_Dude]

OP, sorry for kinda hijacking your thread. Just figured this would be a good place to address these issues.

Jeff, don't get me wrong, I really like the way your system makes my boat handle. However, below is the issue I was referring to. Ignore the residual grease. LOL

You'll notice in this picture that the clevis that attaches to the steering arm binds the spring against the arm itself in left turn conditions. This creates a galling effect, and as a result, this notch in my steering arm.



Here is a pic of the steering system straight ahead. No binding of the spring with the clevis:




Here is a pic of the arm/clevis with the spring disengaged. See the notch? Is that normal? That is 30 hours of use. How deep will the notch be in 60? 80?........



Here are some pics of my install. I put the kit together exactly according to your instructions. And yes, I like setting 4/5. Less drag/turning stiffness at speed.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

ok somehow the inner arm got bent slightly it is supposed to go further in toward the center of the boat so unhook the arm on the fin and rotate the inner arm up enough to get some plyers on the arm and change the bend to get it further away from the clevis. then reload the outside arm

 

[Wake_Dude]

It may be bent, it may not. How would I have known? I'm glad I noticed this last trip out. That is a stock spring from your kit. I haven't hit a single thing with my boat in any fashion. I'll try to bend it tonight and see what happens. Harder material (such as spring steel) will eat a softer metal such as aluminum with the slightest of friction/vibration. In any event, I'll give it a shot. Thanks!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Usually the spring gets out of wack if someone tries to load it wrong in the beginning but it may just have been a odd ball spring, I buy them custom built for me these are not off the shelf, I get them from the same place as always and order them 1000 at a time. I order my EZ locks from another company also custom built for me. All you had to do was reach out to me, call me, message me, email me whatever works for you when you first noticed this, I go out of my way to help people This is a very minor issue to rectify.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I believe they sell the small bushings that belong in the steering clevises check with BRUCE

I've checked mine, especially when I'm messing around with the cobra fins trying to tune them, there's maybe 1/4" of slop. But I've never felt a choppy throttle at any speed.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/steering-bushing-5-pack-half-length.31521/#post-519135

 

[Ronnie]

Pics as promised. I found what I describe as a scratch in the area where the spring comes in contact with the steering nozzle arm. Not deep at all and so light/thin it was hard to get pics of them.

in the end, nothing to worry about where my boat is concerned. Good but thanks for bringing it up and talking/typing it out. A lot better than the alternative of finding out about a problem on the water.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

LOL well that satisfies my curiosity.

Also, since springs "wear out" by the compression/uncompressing of them, it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy that, once a spring started to behave in a way that it would bounce more, that it will continue to wear itself out faster.

I'd be interested to know what would happen if Jeff sent a new set of springs, if that would cure the issue.

Just off the top of my head, I would think that "choppiness" is being caused by the fins "bouncing" at certain speeds and not settling in. Is it possible the springs have lost their tension a little?

WRONG!!!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

LOL well that satisfies my curiosity.

Also, since springs "wear out" by the compression/uncompressing of them, it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy that, once a spring started to behave in a way that it would bounce more, that it will continue to wear itself out faster.

I'd be interested to know what would happen if Jeff sent a new set of springs, if that would cure the issue.

How many times will you be wrong in your ASSumptions?

 

[dscable]

How many times will you be wrong in your ASSumptions?

^^^^---and this is why I'll never buy another product from you! I stay pretty quiet around here, but just would like to point out that nobody likes dealing with someone who treats their customers with such disrespect. Even if your customer is completely wrong, there is never any reason to act the way that you do.

I'll go back to the shadows now....thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I always try to return the favor, If I owe someone I make sure I don't cheat them out of it and some of those got off easy but I am getting old .
You see with me you never get a pat on the back so I can take your money and I do not play games , I am too old a cat to get in the sand box with kittens and I am a real person not a used car salesman telling you what you want to hear to sell you something , if you Can't handle the truth then have fun dealing with life. What gets rewarded gets repeated Like I said in the beginning of this I am not playing the game been around the block a few times in my 69 years .