Cop pulls a gun on a Yamaha jetboat owner!!??

[Noko]

Unfortunately, every encounter today is going to be taped by someone. Its disappointing that the Media has made such an issue of the police and portraying cops as bad. I don't care if you think the cop is right or wrong when he approaches you, its, "Yes sir", comply and then take the issue up later in court. I think if you just treat the police with respect, you'd probably get the same. What most of us don't see, is the dark side of society that the police deal with. I have a neighbor who was a corrections officer and I'm amazed at the stories he tells of what people are like and can do in the criminal world. I was told by a friend of mine whose dad was a cop, that if you ever get pulled over at night, turn on the interior lights and put your hands on the steering wheel so the cop can see you aren't going for a gun. I had a policeman pull me over at 3am one night as I was going to work in the Air Force, I had my uniform on and turned the car light on. The guy was shaking as he came up to my door because he was so worried about what he was going to encounter. I was speeding but got only a warning and I think it was because I kept my hands in sight. It can't be easy being a policeman and wondering who is going to go off on you.

 

[S6T6]

Compliance & responsibility people. It's that simple. Colonel Jessup (Jack Nicholson) said it perfectly in 'A Few Good Men'. "We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use them as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

Every recent media-whored up news story about cops killing "unarmed" teenagers or men (regardless of race) would have ended in zero loss of life had the subject just complied from the start. Police in each and evey situation were uniformed and easily identifiable as such, but the current administration & media has brainwashed the country into believing that cops are the bad guys and its okay to question their authority (which by the way requires extensive training and exhaustive background checks before said authority is granted...as requested by you the taxpaying citizens).

Do I believe the government has gone beyond their limits these days in certain aspects, absolutely. But we still need laws and police to keep the peace and maintain order. A civilized society is not possible without rules. Are there bad cops, of course, but they are the exception not the rule as the media would have you believe. Have I been pulled over and thought "this @-hole" of course, but who to blame for me speeding? The cop? Of course not. Soapbox...over.

 

[BigN8]

Compliance & responsibility people. It's that simple. Colonel Jessup (Jack Nicholson) said it perfectly in 'A Few Good Men'. "We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use them as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

Every recent media-whored up news story about cops killing "unarmed" teenagers or men (regardless of race) would have ended in zero loss of life had the subject just complied from the start. Police in each and evey situation were uniformed and easily identifiable as such, but the current administration & media has brainwashed the country into believing that cops are the bad guys and its okay to question their authority (which by the way requires extensive training and exhaustive background checks before said authority is granted...as requested by you the taxpaying citizens).

Do I believe the government has gone beyond their limits these days in certain aspects, absolutely. But we still need laws and police to keep the peace and maintain order. A civilized society is not possible without rules. Are there bad cops, of course, but they are the exception not the rule as the media would have you believe. Have I been pulled over and thought "this @-hole" of course, but who to blame for me speeding? The cop? Of course not. Soapbox...over.

I believe what you said exactly. I'm a no sir, yes sir kind of guy when I get stopped. However, in the video on this thread I believe that cop had no business even getting out of the car. I can't imagine how that guy would have been treated had he not been rolling video. The guy is obviously innocent based on the cop withdrawing and getting back in his car.

 

[Ronnie]

I saw this thread start and last night I saw the story on the local news, rohnert park is a little over an hour from me but I didn't put it together until now. I know the original poster and it's true he is a forum member. As a non practicing attorney I understand the academics but as a minority I also understand the realities of dealing with law enforcement.

That stated, I try and never forget that when it comes to dealing with cops that I have no rights until I assert them in a court of law , if or when I'm staring down the barrel of a cops gun I'm as far from a court as I can be even if I'm standing on the courthouse steps when it happens. That is, when they say jump I generally say how high and it sucks to live this way but its better than the alternatives of getting shot, beat, jailed, etc.

Personally, I'm happy to see the public and police using cameras on others and themselves. people lie, raw video doesn't. Would I do what the videographer in this instance did? No but I still commend him for doing it, it took balls and brains (notice now he emptied his pockets of their contents onto the hood of his car? That he didn't approach the officer but rather backed away from him?).

If the videographer just got pulled over or the officer was there was responding to a specific call I would not be supporting the videographer in this instance but where do I/you/we/joe public draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable police behavior? Here the videographer was hooking his boat up to his SUV in front of his house, actually in the driveway.

But for the Grace of God that could be anyone of us on a boating morning.

Why this cop felt the need to pull his gun is beyond me but I think it was wrong of him to do so especially when he had other non deadly alternatives available to him. Here is a thought, he could have just drove away. The news story ended last night with the media reporting the the cop involved was on a planned vacation, it seems to me he should have been on an unpaid and unplanned suspension but I have to balance that thought with the fact that a local officer was recently shot and killed during a routine traffic stop by a young guy with no previous criminal record so from the cops perspective better safe than sorry. I get it. Here it looked like the cop started something where the was nothing and he was just being a dick because can and does get away with it as an officer. If it wasn't a cop I think the videographer would have a lot more support but from my perspective there shouldn't a distinction between law enforcement and non law enforcement here, someone pulls a gun against an unarmed person doing nothing wrong on his property there better be a damn good reason for it, refusing to take your hand out of your pocket doesn't qualify, not even close.

 

[S6T6]

Ronnie you are missing a major part of it. None of us were there and don't know the history. Plus as a lawyer you know certainly well that video is constantly taken out of context and edited for sensationalized media. The guys statements "you've done enough to my family" leads me to believe there is a bad history there. The cop has every right to draw his weapon if he feels the need to be ready to protect himself from a deadly encounter or ambush. Cops are baited into bad situations everyday and attacked for simply wearing a uniform. Does that happen at your job? Do you deal with people that want to hurt or kill you on a daily basis? As a lawyer you just might, but you aren't called by neighbors saying there's a suspicious guying filming around cars in the culdesac. You aren't thrust into these situations on a daily basis. This guy standing behind a boat and vehicles filming can be considered suspicious. Can also be a great spot for an ambush. If the man videoing was refusing to take his hand out of his pocket then heck yeah I'm 100% fine with the officers gun coming out. If the guy had a history of being mentally unstable, again I'm fine with officers gun coming out. NOT once did the officer point the gun at the non-compliant videographer.

Let's go back to the reason the cop is there. Was it by chance he was patrolling there? Was it a call coming in from a neighbor about a suspicious person or man filming kids in the neighbohood? Did the videographet make a fake call himself to bait the cop and get a good You Tube video? Doesn't matter. If the cop got a call he's required to check it out or face suspension. If the cop randomly saw a dude ducking in out from behind cars/boats he's got a duty to check it out. If the cop just strolled by and ignored the guy and then the guy himself posted on You Tube or Facebook, "look at this dumb cop, I just broke into these cars and he let me do it" (it happens criminals are dumb) or the citizen caller posted "the cops didn't catch this guy that broke into my car, they just drove by him" the cop would face suspension. It's a lose-lose situation for the cops these days. Damned if they do, damned if they don't...and people like to bash them at every turn for doing a job that's a necessity but not many have the stones to do.

I agree that to control this situation it may have been unwarranted on face value, but again we don't know the history. People need to stop armchair quarterbacking and comply with police rather than question their authority...someday you might need one and they won't be there for you because of this kind of BS.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

So this clip made it to the local news? How did they spin it?

 

[Eurocat]

Ppl are indeed taking recent events way too far.
It's easy to pass judgment looking from a birds eye view with all the facts and slow motion video and everything else. But being in the situation and making decisions on the spot with the information available it's a whole other story.
We ask our Leo's to defend and protect us while we expect them to be perfect at all times. It's just not going to happen. I have seen blatant abuse of power which unfortunately happens from time to time. But, a lot of good get's done in the meanwhile.

 

[GTBRMC]

Without getting into the specifics of this incident, I couldn't help but think of this bit from Chris Rock, titled "How to Not Get Your Ass Kicked by the Police" (clearly NSFW - language and humorous pseudo-violence):

 

[Jim Robeson]

My hats off to you all that are in law enforcement. I personally wouldn't want you jobs right now with all the scrutiny you're under these days. But with that being said, just because you carry a badge and a gun doesn't give you right to be Mr. Badass either. I am always polite and do exactly what I am told if or when I have been pulled over for speeding or at check points. I never give them an excuse.

In the case of this video, we'll never know the reasons why the policeman was there until the investigation clarifies this. As for the cop pulling his gun, can't say I disagree with his actions especially when he asked the guy to pull his hand out of his pockets. Personally, I would have called 911 when the cop starting to coming towards me especially if I hadn't done anything wrong. Sounds like there is some kind of history there with the statement that the guy filming made. Be interesting to know what that was.

@Murf'n'surf ... from the news clip I saw, they are running a complete investigation on the guy.

 

[Glassman]

Without getting into the specifics of this incident, I couldn't help but think of this bit from Chris Rock, titled "How to Not Get Your Ass Kicked by the Police" (clearly NSFW - language and humorous pseudo-violence):

That was hilarious, but true. I agree with all of them but the last one...sometimes it can actually help. About 25-30 years ago I was driving on the freeway with my girlfriend at the time and we were in a "heated discussion" - yeah, she was doing her best to rip me a new one. Well with all that going on I didn't notice the California Highway Patrol car I just passed going over the limit!

He lights me up, I pull over and she's not backing off...even as the cop is walking up to the passenger window she's now screaming at me for getting pulled over and we were already late...

I know the cop heard it, he asks if everything is OK, is there an emergency, do you know you just passed me back there? I answer that everything is OK, we were just having a discussion and that we were running late and I didn't see him. He takes my license and registration and walks back to his car.

When he comes back he tells me that he ran the info and there are no outstanding issues regarding me or the vehicle...he looks at us both and shakes his head and says, "If I let you off with a warning will you slow down and keep it under the limit?" Of course I told him, "Yes, officer" - then he reminds me that I should pay better attention in front as well as to the rear view mirror.

Boy was I lucky that day. She kept quiet the rest of the drive.

But, that was back in the day when the cops you encountered were like the guys on Adam-12 or CHiPs

 

[S6T6]

So what you are now seeing is roadside lawyers trying to change the way laws are enforced and hindering the police' s ability to protect us and our families. If you don't allow police to question things that look out of the ordinary then bad things are allowed to happen. The cop asked the man to take his hands out his pocket and instead he backed away and started being verbally abusive and loud rather than complying and talking to the cop like a normal human being.

Just like people complaining that the lines at the airport are too slow because of TSA searches. You can't have it both ways people.

 

[Jim Robeson]

@Glassman ... good story!! My wife and I were pulled one night, coming from a fundraiser. Never saw the guy until he lit me up. He pulls us over for of all things passing on the right. I said the reason I passed the guy on the right is because he wouldn't get over. The state patrolman's answer "That's because he was doing the speed limit and you weren't". He had me there. Anyway, he could tell we had been to some kind of function and that we had been drinking. He asked if my wife was in better shape than me, I said yes. He questions her and comes back to me and tells me that "she is in no better shape than me". Looking at my license he notices that we live in the same neighborhood. This is the best part...he tells us to leave the car on the side of the road and he gives us a lift home. Only if we promise to not go back and get the car until morning. No ticket, just a warning. I have never forgot that and to this day believe there are more "good guys and gals" in law enforcement than bad ones.

And @S6T6 ... couldn't have hit the nail on the head any better with the TSA comment. I don't like standing in long lines anymore than anyone else but would rather do that than have the other consequence.

 

[treeskier]

Video is now up on MSN.com home page main window

 

[gthh]

I am just adding to the discussion but no matter what your perspective, it it clear that the Officer initiated an aggressive posture and maintained it through out the incident (weapon at the ready) even when he ascertained the threat was not escalating; which in my opinion is not professional and was highly unbecoming of a LEO.

The fact that he did not holster his weapon and he did not radio for back up and volunteered a commentary "...are you some sort of constitutionalist-crazy guy?" clearly suggests he was confrontational and (I hope not) baiting our member!

I agree with Ronnie's sentiment regarding our interaction with LEO's, when did we move to a society that once respected Law enforcement as equals under the law to one that is fearful at every encounter with these public servants. When I get pulled over (more often then not these days) the only emotion I feel is remorse (money down the drain) and a bit of shame. There is something wrong with the Officer's conduct, if I have to deal with fearing for my life during an encounter.

This seemly begets a larger argument on how society deals with authority (Milgram Study-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment) and individuals with perceived special privileges (University of Lausanne study-

).

 

[S6T6]

I know I'm new here, but wow I can't get past the liberal brainwashing in this thread. I'm sorry but if you fear for your life when encountering a police officer you have serious issues that can't be helped on this forum or any other. If you didn't do anything wrong then just comply, sit there, take the verbal reprimand or accept the ticket, then go make a formal complaint to the police station...not You Tube. Most times we all think we didn't do anything wrong when we go california rolling thru a stop sign. But guess what, we did.

That kind of thinking is part of the problem with this country. Fearing that a cop that stops you for committing a traffic violation or other offense is going to shoot you is plain moronic. The mentality that "what I did wasn't that bad and you shouldn't have called me on it" and the "I'm the victim" is ruining this country. That's just my opinion, but in this day age I guess we can't have those anymore either because the liberal media won't allow common sense opinios anymore.

 

[Tranio]

I know I'm new here, but wow I can't get past the liberal brainwashing in this thread. I'm sorry but if you fear for your life when encountering a police officer you have serious issues that can't be helped on this forum or any other. If you didn't do anything wrong then just comply, sit there, take the verbal reprimand or accept the ticket, then go make a formal complaint to the police station...not You Tube. Most times we all think we didn't do anything wrong when we go california rolling thru a stop sign. But guess what, we did.

That kind of thinking is part of the problem with this country. Fearing that a cop that stops you for committing a traffic violation or other offense is going to shoot you is plain moronic. The mentality that "what I did wasn't that bad and you shouldn't have called me on it" and the "I'm the victim" is ruining this country. That's just my opinion, but in this day age I guess we can't have those anymore either because the liberal media won't allow common sense opinios anymore.

Didn't take long for someone to make it political and start blaming the liberals.
and this comment is just wrong

Every recent media-whored up news story about cops killing "unarmed" teenagers or men (regardless of race) would have ended in zero loss of life had the subject just complied from the start.
.

There have been instances of people following the "orders" from the cops and still getting shot.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I know what I told new recruits, when you put that badge on , remember this simple rule, COVER YOUR ASS FIRST, DO YOUR JOB SECOND, If you can't cover your ass then don't break the rules to do the job because someone is looking at that badge and seeing their WINNING LOTTERY TICKET!

 

[BigN8]

I know I'm new here, but wow I can't get past the liberal brainwashing in this thread. I'm sorry but if you fear for your life when encountering a police officer you have serious issues that can't be helped on this forum or any other. If you didn't do anything wrong then just comply, sit there, take the verbal reprimand or accept the ticket, then go make a formal complaint to the police station...not You Tube. Most times we all think we didn't do anything wrong when we go california rolling thru a stop sign. But guess what, we did.

That kind of thinking is part of the problem with this country. Fearing that a cop that stops you for committing a traffic violation or other offense is going to shoot you is plain moronic. The mentality that "what I did wasn't that bad and you shouldn't have called me on it" and the "I'm the victim" is ruining this country. That's just my opinion, but in this day age I guess we can't have those anymore either because the liberal media won't allow common sense opinios anymore.

I'm not liberal very much the opposite (unless Trump is my candidate then I may have to swap sides for a term), but I could not disagree with you more!!! I believe that cop needs a desk job if he's that keyed up over some dude hooking up a boat in his own driveway.

 

[Bruce]

We try to keep politics and a liberal / conservative bias off of the forum. Our administrative team has a wide variety of beliefs but we all agree that it is best to keep the forum focused on boating. So please lets not bash each other or make this discussion political.

Personally what little I know about this situation is;

1. The man who the gun was pulled on is an instigator on multiple forums. I imagine his real life behavior is similar.
2. The officers sidearm was at low ready. It was never pointed at anyone.
3. Unintentional discharges sometimes occur when holstering a sidearm. Particularly with Glocks and more often under stress. The office may have kept his sidearm in his hand longer that he felt necessary because he was concerned about holstering in such a stressful situation. Or he may simply have been trained not to holster until there is no longer a threat.
4. The officer felt sufficiently threatened that he kept Don's SUV between himself and Don when he retreated to his vehicle.
5. I have participated in tactical training classes where an instructor would run from 21 feet away toward a trainee. I can tell you from experience that it is very difficult to draw and get a shot on target before the instructor closes the distance.
6. In all of my experiences with police officers in many states and several countries I have always been polite and have never had a negative experience beyond receiving speeding tickets. I have to admit that I have a habit of driving too fast.

I wonder how many other people were behind the camera?

Regardless of what we think happened or should have happened this has sufficient press that I am sure that it will be thoroughly investigated.

 

[jwells]

Being an ex LEO I can say that what the men and women face these days with everyone and their brother wanting to catch them in an opportunity for their 15 min of fame makes that job something I would no longer want to do. Imagine if every corner you turned you had someone filming while another tried to bait you out. Now with the film guy having his had in his pocket and refusing to follow the officers request to remove it (for his safety and the officers) I personally feel the gun being drawn to low ready was warranted. I would have and did the same thing on many occasions. The only guy who wins in a quick draw situation is the first one with his weapon out, you have to remember that. Add to the extra scrutiny etc. it is only going to get more intense as people stop respecting all LEO's and the position they hold to catch their 15 min of fame. No matter where you go, no matter who they are, there will always be bad apples that slip through the cracks in anything, today people are using that to game fame and notoriety at the expense of some really good people on both sides of the uniform. It is very sad...

I agree and why don't people flood the enter net with all the good officers do. When they do something good which is all the time we don't hardly here a word. I don't know why these officers want to protect a community that does there best to show them in a negative light. I'm glad they do though every one else should be to