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Did the Cobra steering but around the docks not so good... (my fault)

Ah... I was responding to Cobra's comment on "high speed bow wander". Never experienced that. I understand what you mean about tracking straight at slow speeds. In my experience, that's an issue of over-control that results from the lag time that occurs on jet boats between the time that you make a correction to the time that the correction takes effect. The natural reaction is to add more steering input while the boat is responding. By the time that the boat does start to respond, the control inputs are too much, which tends to make people apply a too-strong correction in the opposite direction. I can always entertain folks on my boat by letting someone not familiar with jet boats take the controls in a 6mph zone. Hilarity almost always ensues. The key is the same trick I use as a pilot to track straight while taxiing. Simply pick a spot to focus on far in the distance to track to, and be conscious not to over correct. People are astonished when I take back the controls and the boat tracks straight with nearly no control inputs. I don’t have an issue with slow speed “bow wander”, but I’m very used to these boats. If the aftermarket things make it easier, so much the better. I’ve definitely not experienced any control issues at high speed though.

I have been dealing with this for 22 years and the big complaints I get about stock boats is docking control, loss of speed in turns on plane , loss of complete steering control when rapidly decelerating in a turn and high speed bow wander they call it the left -right, left- right corrections. if you have not experienced that consider your self lucky I posted a video on my face book page from a stunt pilot that was really impressed that his high speed bow wander went away with my steering added .

Timothy Wild's comment
I’m not one for writing endorsements but I wanted to take a minute to thank Jeff and Cobra jet steering for such an outstanding product. I looked at JBP TV’s and they seemed a little flimsy by comparison to the CJS product. I race airplanes and do aerobatics at airshows and I don’t want to strap anything onto my vessels that isn’t completely solid. That being said I got to try my new super ultimate ak deluxe with mega fang plus upgrade and an EZ lock for good measure in the Gulf of Mexico today and WOW! Normally I would have to pretty much continuously be turning my steering wheel to keep somewhat on track, today I was hands off…literally. Underway it’s like doing a perfectly straight hole shot and tracks perfect WOT. Coming into the dock I was maneuvering better than the guys with triple engines. To me, this is how it was meant to be and I can’t say enough about Jeff’s customer service…I called him after 7:30PM on a Friday night and he was there for me to double check my work…I really can’t say thank you enough.
Timothy | Facebook
 
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And here are some other videos for the class of 2024 My steering works at all speeds and is adjustable with several extra features and remember I blazed this trail in 2001 and ignored all the people who said it could not be done or it would have already been done . And my advice is as it has always been DO YOUR RESEARCH when choosing a steering system for your boat This is what I do I always have buy direct discount prices and free domestic shipping and you can discuss your needs with the owner, inventor and patent holder I even offer to review your install for you if you send me pictures when you are finished.
https://fb.watch/dMr4yZ8EDA/
 
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And here are some other videos for the class of 2024

It’s probably all a function of how you operate the boat. I can’t recall a time when I needed to rapidly decelerate during a high speed turn for example. I'd expect loss of directional control with outboards and stern drives in that circumstance as well. I could see that adding more of a control surface would add control in that circumstance though if that were important to you.

And I’m used to losing speed in turns with outboards and stern drives also, so I’m conditioned to add throttle commensurate with turn radius to keep the speed up. Again, I can see though that having an additional control surface would minimize the need to add throttle.

Clearly people find utility in these types of products and that’s super. Neither of my stock Yamaha jet boats experienced anything that I'd consider high speed control issues (2003 AR230 and 2023 222XD), but if they did, that'd be something that I'd care about and would want to improve.

I'll say that the fourth (slalom) video was certainly impressive. I'm going to assume that I couldn't do that on my stock 222XD, but it's just not something that I'd ever likely try. I mainly use my boat to go places and secondarily to do water sports. In both cases, the way I operate the boat, the stock configuration is great. I'm operating on large bodies of water though, so I'm typically not needing to go fast and precise at the same time.

I'm definitely not trying to suggest that these products don't do what's advertised. But I do think that for many people, they might be surprised by how much they'll be rewarded by a little practice in terms of low-speed operations and that for high-speed operations, some of the reported issues may not apply to all folks.
 
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It’s probably all a function of how you operate the boat. I can’t recall a time when I needed to rapidly decelerate during a high speed turn for example. I'd expect loss of directional control with outboards and stern drives in that circumstance as well. I could see that adding more of a control surface would add control in that circumstance though if that were important to you.

And I’m used to losing speed in turns with outboards and stern drives also, so I’m conditioned to add throttle commensurate with turn radius to keep the speed up. Again, I can see though that having an additional control surface would minimize the need to add throttle.

Clearly people find utility in these types of products and that’s super. Neither of my stock Yamaha jet boats experienced anything that I'd consider high speed control issues (2003 AR230 and 2023 222XD), but if they did, that'd be something that I'd care about and would want to improve.

I'll say that the fourth (slalom) video was certainly impressive. I'm going to assume that I couldn't do that on my stock 222XD, but it's just not something that I'd ever likely try. I mainly use my boat to go places and secondarily to do water sports. In both cases, the way I operate the boat, the stock configuration is great. I'm operating on large bodies of water though, so I'm typically not needing to go fast and precise at the same time.

I'm definitely not trying to suggest that these products don't do what's advertised. But I do think that for many people, they might be surprised by how much they'll be rewarded by a little practice in terms of low-speed operations and that for high-speed operations, some of the reported issues may not apply to all folks.

like I said it's the class of 2024 and there are a lot of opinions out there but if you went to my Facebook page and read what people have to say remember I have been focused on this for nearly 23 years and have had boats since I was 14 years old back in 1966.
I have made Yamaha customers very happy at all speeds in all conditions and addressed other shortcomings with these boats like a balanced tie rod setup and plaining surfaces for a smoother ride in chop and a faster hole shot.
But if you were towing tubes you would want the boat to steer like a sports car on a dry road and also want to be able to turn and decelerate without loosing control, especially if you are picking up a downed water sport participant, so you don't run them over.
You would also want very good and responsive steering if you were in rough conditions needing to tack waves.
I design steering to provide all the features and benefits these boats need to make them handle better and more fun .
I have experienced years of people telling others to just learn to drive a jet boat but why settle for that when you can get the jet boat to do what you want not what it wants. Even off power steerage and the admirals get to sit back and enjoy driving the boat as well as guest operators . Making it a far more valuable commodity so you get the most out of your time on the water with family and friends.
That is what it's all about more fun and more relaxation and making good memories . I raised my 4 children out on the water and now they are in their 40's and still recall all the memories, as do my 11 grand children and a couple of great grand children all love the water.
The boat is safer and more enjoyable And that is priceless .
And I get to play on the P W C's with my steering and do things that you just can't do without real full time steering.
So if you are happy with what you have that is fine it's your boat but don't try to convince others to make the same decision because I hear all the time that they wish they had added the steering day one. Remember everyone has different needs and I make systems that have adjustments to be set to the personal preference of the owner and also can be changed if the owner's needs change.
just a few of my P W C videos for the class of 2024
 
but don't try to convince others to make the same decision

My intent isn't to try to convince anyone of anything. It just seems to me that people reading a thread like this who may be looking at Yamaha jet boats for the first time may conclude that the stock boats don't work without installing third-party control surfaces.

In my experience with over 20 years of Yamaha jet boats, there isn't anything that I can't do with a boat in the Yamaha stock configuration in comparison with an outboard or stern-drive powered boat. The way that you approach slow speed operations is different, but not harder or more limiting.

I'm not commenting on your product specifically. I just don't think that it's accurate to claim or imply that most or all Yamaha jet boat owners need aftermarket devices to get the same utility out of their boat that they'd get out of a stern drive or outboard powered boat. I have no doubt that there is a market need that you and others are addressing.
 
My intent isn't to try to convince anyone of anything. It just seems to me that people reading a thread like this who may be looking at Yamaha jet boats for the first time may conclude that the stock boats don't work without installing third-party control surfaces.

In my experience with over 20 years of Yamaha jet boats, there isn't anything that I can't do with a boat in the Yamaha stock configuration in comparison with an outboard or stern-drive powered boat. The way that you approach slow speed operations is different, but not harder or more limiting.

I'm not commenting on your product specifically. I just don't think that it's accurate to claim or imply that most or all Yamaha jet boat owners need aftermarket devices to get the same utility out of their boat that they'd get out of a stern drive or outboard powered boat. I have no doubt that there is a market need that you and others are addressing.

Interesting misconception, I am not trying to convince Yamaha jet boat owners to add steering to their bots, I Invented this for myself after purchasing a different jet boat., Yamaha jet boat owners were the ones that convinced ME to design and sell steering systems for their Yamaha jet boats and I did , just like the EZ locks to prevent the older clean out plugs from blowing out during use. They wanted it. Not sure where you have been all these years but that is how it happened . When the Yamaha jet boat owners asked me to build steering for them I said the nozzles on their boats looked like the ones on the Military Vietnam war river boats , It took someone actually dropping his boat off in my front yard to get me to make the very first design and then we went out on lake Seminole and tried it out. HE LOVED IT and the rest is history.
Someone also dropped off a clean out plug at my house for me to use to design the lock to prevent plug blowouts and those were a big success as well. So you sort of showed up late to the party . They are not agreeing with your opinion of the boats handling ability or lack thereof and I am offering a solution to the issue they complain about and asked me to fix, this happened on the Yamaha jetboaters.net forum that we were members of before this forum existed but that is another story for a different time. Same with P W C steering I had a friend of one of my sons who had A P W C and he asked me to make a steering system for his Sea Doo . I did and they loved it I tried it and I loved it and I still would NEVER want a stock ski any more than I would want a stock jet boat. It seems a lot of people agree with that as well.
 
" So if you are happy with what you have that is fine it's your boat but don't try to convince others to make the same decision because I hear all the time that they wish they had added the steering day one. "

That was the full sentence you only quoted part of it
 
Hey Cobra... Looks like I must need to brush up on my Dale Carnegie.... In any case, I gotta respect a guy who so fully stands behind his products.

If I ever have a chance, I'll make sure to check out your product on a boat that already has it installed. I don't think I want to go back on anything that I said, but I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you aren't putting out a great product for those who aren't happy with the control they are getting out of their stock boat.
 
Anyone can run and get use to how a stock jetboat operates with practice, where i find the aftermarket steering add on help is when you give the controls over to a person who isn't familiar with the handling and steering characteristics of a jetboat.
Do they need or require to operate, no.
Any boat manufacturer wouldn't put out a product that wasn't operable in stock form.

A/M steering just gives added help to the inexperienced operator.
 
Hey Cobra... Looks like I must need to brush up on my Dale Carnegie.... In any case, I gotta respect a guy who so fully stands behind his products.

If I ever have a chance, I'll make sure to check out your product on a boat that already has it installed. I don't think I want to go back on anything that I said, but I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you aren't putting out a great product for those who aren't happy with the control they are getting out of their stock boat.

Exactly, I have always advised people to drive the boat as is first if it is a new boat to them so they can see if it is suitable for their needs or if they feel they need more assistance in the handling especially the admirals.
I give them a 30 day satisfaction guarantee so if they are not happy they can return the system. But they must try it!
I also want them to drive the boat stock so they have a base line for comparison.
I also take in feedback from customers of other systems as well as my own. I don't sell a price I sell a product with many features and benefits and few if any drawbacks.
I also make model specific systems and upgrades.
And my systems are super steering so I tell people to get accustom to the differences if they have already become accustom to the original setup because my systems make the boat handle like a sports car on a dry road depending on the settings they choose. This is new to the class of 2024 but I have been doing this for a very long time . Thus the saying do your research before you buy any aftermarket steering system for your boat ! Below is a picture of the very first steering system I made for my personal boat , The one I refused to drive stock. but loved it when I made it steer better at all speeds.
Just those small fins off to the side of the center of the boat with tie rods attached to the nozzle , I even built in shear pins so the fins could flip up if they hit something but I never needed them.
Because the fins were off to the side not the lowest point and strong enough to deal with beaching.
1703625409709.jpeg
 
I'm looking into upgrading my upgrading my current boat to a 2024 sx250.....any changes to the 2024 models that affect your fins? or are they the same as 2023 models?
 
I'm looking into upgrading my upgrading my current boat to a 2024 sx250.....any changes to the 2024 models that affect your fins? or are they the same as 2023 models?
That model uses the same systems as the previous years back to 2019. My usual advice is to get the super magnum AK-19 deluxe setup M S R P is $639.99 buy direct discount price is $489.99 with free domestic priority mail shipping..
If you have the boat dry docked using a fork lift or if you run in seriously shallow water or water with stumps rocks or other obstructions , you may want the super ultimate Ak-19 Deluxe setup.
The main difference is it has springs so if a forklift operator hits the fins they just flip up or if you run into a submerged object they flip up and there are also more parts to install so the install is a bit more involved.
The M S R P on that one is $741.99 but my buy direct discount price is $569.99 and with free domestic priority mail shipping.
Also keep in mind I position the fins above the rudder and if you strike objects with the rudder it will usually break so I have a very effective setup I do for people who want to remove the rudder and that is a special set of super ultimate AK-19 deluxe single engine systems that have a combined M S R P of $618.00 and buy direct discount priced at $537.98 for the pair and the same free shipping , To purchase that setup you need to get with me directly. I don't have it on the site.
I always try to give you the best one for your personal needs.
All these systems are adjustable and work at all speeds plus they have the plaining surfaces for a faster hole shot and a smoother ride in chop. The magnum version that is not spring loaded has a special part that is soft aluminum allowing the fin to move up if it hits something to protect the pump from damage and that can be pushed back down and later removed and straightened out very easily.
That part really works good and is not TOO soft , see last picture .
So just get with me when you are ready to make your choice.
 

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That model uses the same systems as the previous years back to 2019. My usual advice is to get the super magnum AK-19 deluxe setup M S R P is $639.99 buy direct discount price is $489.99 with free domestic priority mail shipping..
If you have the boat dry docked using a fork lift or if you run in seriously shallow water or water with stumps rocks or other obstructions , you may want the super ultimate Ak-19 Deluxe setup.
The main difference is it has springs so if a forklift operator hits the fins they just flip up or if you run into a submerged object they flip up and there are also more parts to install so the install is a bit more involved.
The M S R P on that one is $741.99 but my buy direct discount price is $569.99 and with free domestic priority mail shipping.
Also keep in mind I position the fins above the rudder and if you strike objects with the rudder it will usually break so I have a very effective setup I do for people who want to remove the rudder and that is a special set of super ultimate AK-19 deluxe single engine systems that have a combined M S R P of $618.00 and buy direct discount priced at $537.98 for the pair and the same free shipping , To purchase that setup you need to get with me directly. I don't have it on the site.
I always try to give you the best one for your personal needs.
All these systems are adjustable and work at all speeds plus they have the plaining surfaces for a faster hole shot and a smoother ride in chop. The magnum version that is not spring loaded has a special part that is soft aluminum allowing the fin to move up if it hits something to protect the pump from damage and that can be pushed back down and later removed and straightened out very easily.
That part really works good and is not TOO soft , see last picture .
So just get with me when you are ready to make your choice.

Is it difficult to convert the super magnum to the super ultimate? I bought the non spring loaded fins, but just realized that maybe in the spring I will bring the boat down to florida and pay for some months in dry storage.
 
Is it difficult to convert the super magnum to the super ultimate? I bought the non spring loaded fins, but just realized that maybe in the spring I will bring the boat down to florida and pay for some months in dry storage.
They look very similar but aside from the second tie rod they are different systems in design . I will tell you that the forklift operator that hit 2 sets of a customers fins was in my opinion incompetent to be kind.
Most are very careful and I told the customer to advise the operator of the steering and he did not care. So this is just an ounce of prevention but even with the forks pushing up on the fins they were not harmed as they are 6061-t6 tempered aluminum,, the soft bracket allowed them to move up and if you go in shallow water , go behind the boat and push down on the top of the fin with your foot it will go back down . Or just leave it until you go back and show it to them it will still work for the day.
The bracket is soft so you can remove a couple bolts and put it in a vice to straighten it out and put it back on.
You can also just set the 2 outer fins up a couple of settings while the boat is being dry docked and keep them out of the way.
 
They look very similar but aside from the second tie rod they are different systems in design . I will tell you that the forklift operator that hit 2 sets of a customers fins was in my opinion incompetent to be kind.
Most are very careful and I told the customer to advise the operator of the steering and he did not care. So this is just an ounce of prevention but even with the forks pushing up on the fins they were not harmed as they are 6061-t6 tempered aluminum,, the soft bracket allowed them to move up and if you go in shallow water , go behind the boat and push down on the top of the fin with your foot it will go back down . Or just leave it until you go back and show it to them it will still work for the day.
The bracket is soft so you can remove a couple bolts and put it in a vice to straighten it out and put it back on.
You can also just set the 2 outer fins up a couple of settings while the boat is being dry docked and keep them out of the way.

Okay great. Then I don't have to worry about it. Thanks
 
@Cobra Jet Steering LLC Keep up the good work Jeff. We appreciate the product and all the super ultimate personalized help you give everyone.
Thank you Grant I appreciate that. Hope your super magnum AK-19 deluxe steering is making your time on the water more fun.
 
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