Different take on how to create a better surf wave

[haknslash]

@Englewoodcowboy why deal with Perfect Pass servo when the new Ridesteady is nearly plug and play without the need for a mechanical servo? Less moving parts to set up or go wrong is my thinking.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Something like 2750 in Mikes boat.

 

[swatski]

I don't think the 21' and 24' keel is any different. They share the same part numbers for the rudder (item 20) and the retaining plate (item 21) that is mounted to the hull and fits the same keel profile.

View attachment 57588

View attachment 57589

Hah! I guess I never looked at it like that, and would have sworn there is a difference in the bottom shape between the new 24 and 21 - I have literally crawled under those with a measuring tape. But it is possible I looked at it wrong, with the 240 transom recessed way further and no scupper box on the 212.

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[swatski]

We set up a 2015 with awesome results , it was a surf machine !!! List the boat !! And his ballast wasn't that much , jerry do you remember how much weight we had in mikes boat ?

Something like 2750 in Mikes boat.

Hah! I have been way over 3,000 lbs, probably pushing 4,000 and it was okay but not great. My platform remote was getting wet, but I may need to list more aggressively.

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[haknslash]

Hah! I guess I never looked at it like that, and would have sworn there is a difference in the bottom shape between the new 24 and 21 - I have literally crawled under those with a measuring tape. But it is possible I looked at it wrong, with the 240 transom recessed way further and no scupper box on the 212.

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Yea I'm not sure why the 24' has the bulge area in between the jets with the scupper but the 21' don't. I do notice the lifting strakes (I think that is what those are) on the side surfaces of the 24' keel goes all the way to the rudder where as the 21' stops a little shorter. Not sure why though lol.

21'


24'

 

[geohil]

Seems like the right place to post this thought - as stated in the beginning of this thread, ballast, and a wedge or flap are needed to surf well. One thing that people keep mentioning is making a slow turn away from the surf side. From my fishing days I have one of those sea-anchors (small parachute for the water). Has anyone tried deploying one on the surf side of the boat? That would force us to turn away to track straight and have the added benefit to list the boat a bit more. For those of us surfing on a river not turning into shore is ideal.
If we can ever get good weather out here in the PNW I'll answer my own question and test!

 

[swatski]

Seems like the right place to post this thought - as stated in the beginning of this thread, ballast, and a wedge or flap are needed to surf well. One thing that people keep mentioning is making a slow turn away from the surf side. From my fishing days I have one of those sea-anchors (small parachute for the water). Has anyone tried deploying one on the surf side of the boat? That would force us to turn away to track straight and have the added benefit to list the boat a bit more. For those of us surfing on a river not turning into shore is ideal.
If we can ever get good weather out here in the PNW I'll answer my own question and test!

I think this is potentially a brilliant idea! Sea anchor has been discussed but never in this context, TTBOMK.

That could work, actually. My only reservation would be about consistency - it maybe difficult to maintain a steady wake with a somewhat complex system like that.

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[geohil]

I think this is a potentially a brilliant idea! The sea anchor has been discussed but never in this context, TTBOMK.

That could work, actually. My only reservation would be about consistency - it maybe difficult to maintain a steady wake with a somewhat complex system like that.

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I think to make it feasible it would have to run off of one of the mooring cleats. I've hear the hulls are thin on our boats, but the cleat seems pretty sturdy. I'll have to experiment with and without it and see if it worth the headache.

I'll have a lot to test. My last time out to try and surf was stock ballast, 4 people in the boat. This time it will be stock ballast (1100#), two 800# external bags, surf flap, and now a surf flap. Sheesh.

 

[Scuba_ref]

I've attached a boat fender below the swim deck to try and knock down the jet wash. Just posted a short video of the wake in the following thread:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/surf-setup-2015-242ls.12389/page-8#post-242663

I've also thought about trying a drift anchor but not gotten around to it...it would probably help if I actually owned one.

 

[swatski]

I think to make it feasible it would have to run off of one of the mooring cleats. I've hear the hulls are thin on our boats, but the cleat seems pretty sturdy. I'll have to experiment with and without it and see if it worth the headache.

The cleat mounting sites are properly reinforced in the hull, there should be no concern there for strength.

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[swatski]

I've attached a boat fender below the swim deck to try and knock down the jet wash. Just posted a short video of the wake in the following thread:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/surf-setup-2015-242ls.12389/page-8#post-242663

I've also thought about trying a drift anchor but not gotten around to it...it would probably help if I actually owned one.

If you do get to it, I think the @geohil idea of putting it on the surf side (only) is worth exploring! It could offset the turn and force the nozzle redirection towards the non-surf side, with some delayed convergence benefit possible as well.
(As opposed to using a sea anchor simply as additional ballast, as I had it in my head.)


Now - that I think about it - this may be the reason my "beast" surf tab attachment did not work all that great in forcing delayed convergence!
When deployed (on the strbd side) it must have made me turn the nozzles towards port - and I wasn't really thinking about it. So, my nozzle operation was just ruining/counteracting the effect I was actually trying to achieve with the surf tab (to push water out and away to the strbd side for delayed convergence)!
I'll be darned.





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[jcyamaharider]

Seems like the right place to post this thought - as stated in the beginning of this thread, ballast, and a wedge or flap are needed to surf well. One thing that people keep mentioning is making a slow turn away from the surf side. From my fishing days I have one of those sea-anchors (small parachute for the water). Has anyone tried deploying one on the surf side of the boat? That would force us to turn away to track straight and have the added benefit to list the boat a bit more. For those of us surfing on a river not turning into shore is ideal.
If we can ever get good weather out here in the PNW I'll answer my own question and test!

You only need to turn if you do not have a Wake Wedge, or some other kind of jet deflection.

 

[geohil]

You only need to turn if you do not have a Wake Wedge, or some other kind of jet deflection.

I'm sure eventually I'll end up with a Wake Wedge, but it is always fun to experiment. For now with the price of the boat, HydroPhase, additional ballast, and towable toys I'm feeling poor! Free was a decent enough motive to get me to try it. I built a wake flap just to tide me over until the coffers fill back up.

JC - Does you Wake wedge work with the a OEM rudder on the '17X?

 

[Blenderhead]

I'm sure eventually I'll end up with a Wake Wedge, but it is always fun to experiment. For now with the price of the boat, HydroPhase, additional ballast, and towable toys I'm feeling poor! Free was a decent enough motive to get me to try it. I built a wake flap just to tide me over until the coffers fill back up.

JC - Does you Wake wedge work with the a OEM rudder on the '17X?

Wake Wedge works great with the '17 212x. I run the Cobra Magnum AKs too and it highly compliments the setup.

 

[geohil]

So I will start with an apology for the lack of pictures but we went to Green Peter Reservoir over here in Oregon and there was a bass tournament which made the ramp a madhouse. This resulted in my leaving my phone/camera in the truck. So the Sea-anchor idea kind of works. It does force you to steer away from the rider but it is a pain in the butt when turning around to fetch a downed rider. The gain was not worth the headache. On the wake flap side - a flap that only covers the surf side does a nice job knocking down the jet wash, but still not as nice as the full flap. My comparison was a 30"x 14" since flap vs. a 60" x 14" full flap. Both were pointed straight down. The full flap also had the bonus of not having to use a 75' rope to pull my kids tubing.
All and all nothing helped the wake out as much as two additional 800# Straightline ballast bags on the rear seat and deck biased towards the surf side.
Sorry to say there isn't much of a magic bullet besides what has been stated above. Weight and something to knock the jet was down is still the best answer.

 

[Dulaneyjared]

You only need to turn if you do not have a Wake Wedge, or some other kind of jet deflection.

You only need to turn if you do not have a Wake Wedge, or some other kind of jet deflection.

No wake wedge no turn no problem. 2100# of ballast I'm 6ft 200. The wave is a little crusty but that can be easily fixed. Does the wake wedge do a great job of that? Sure! Saying you can't straight line surf without it is simply not true.

 

[Minh Nguyen]

@Dulaneyjared how did you distribute your ballast bags in the boat? Wave looks pretty good for not having a wedge.

 

[Dulaneyjared]

750# under rear seat starboard. Filled to maybe 700 before the room was all gone to exapand. 1000# L shape bag with the fat leg on top of the rear starboard seat with the skinny leg going across the backseat. 400# in the floor in front of the engine hatch. Wife 100# driving and our 3 and 5 yo boys...No help

 

[Minh Nguyen]

Thanks. It must've been the 100# wife that made it surfable! I have right about 1900lbs and will be adding more.

 

[Dulaneyjared]

Ha, Every little bit helps