Help! Mystery starting problem

[andyak]

The only thing I didn't do on this engine because I didn't need to - is remove the stator cover.

The other engine I did first that runs fine had got a lot of oil in there from sitting on an angle in the garage. and I cleaned it out before reassembly .

Does anyone think that if there is too much oil in the front stator cover that it may impede sending pulses to the cdi for the plugs spark? If so, I can remove the starter and stick a hose in there to suck out any excess oil. I guess I could test for spark without using YDS.- the old fashioned way while cranking and that would answer the stator pulse question.

I will update tomorrow.

 

[PaulyB]

Do these motors have Cam shaft or Crank Shaft sensors? Is it plugged in if so? I would have to believe that you left something unplugged somewhere if you removed and re-installed the engine....

 

[andyak]

Today's update first off I checked for spark while cranking each plug and got spark didn't seem super strong but it was there

Next I put in brand-new plugs gapped appropriately at .32

Tried starting. got nothing. then I had my wife Crank when I used my screwdriver stethoscope and verified that each fuel injector was pulsing

Also verified the fuel pump was turning on and off

Next I poured gas down each cylinder and tried drinking and got nothing not even a cough which leads me to believe spark is too weak or there's no air

Mystified, I then spent the next hour disassembling and swapping ECM's

You guessed it no difference. So both ECM's are good.

I am flummoxed.

Any ideas are welcome before I go with tail between my legs to the dealer

 

[MikeyL]

Did ya try once again any starting fluid today ? Just might do the trick. Hopin' so !

 

[andyak]

I didn't have starting fluid that's why I drip down for five drops of gas past each butterfly and tried and didn't get so much as a burp

 

[MikeyL]

Before a dealer stop, I suggest a fast ride to Wal-Mart for some cheap starting fluid. It's good for all kinds of ailments. Good Luck !
The effect of the starting fluid is far better - read way more "effective" - than what you had to resort to. Worth a try in my opinion..

 

[andyak]

And a strike out for starter fluid. I got 1 backfire out of her the whole day. Otherwise just cranking.

Synopsis
Known:
Both ECMs ok
Everything shows as ok in YDS.


Tested:
Some spark evident - not known how strong

Fuel injectors are actuating
Fuel pump actuating

Tried new plugs
Tried engine starter

Engine cranks but does not even Sputter.

 

[subysti]

check the fuel pressure. If its not enough pressure the injectors will just drip instead of spray and that wont ignite. You said your plugs are dry so its not timing either because you would be getting fuel but at the wrong time. Plugs should be wet if your cranking and not starting and getting fuel. If the injectors are clicking then I would say not enough pressure.

 

[andyak]

I subbed out a backup fuel pump with new motor. It was the 3rd thing I did. I can put back original one... But it does nt seem likely. Plus the starting fluid didn't work so I am at a loss.

 

[Big Shasta]

If the starting fluid didn't work and you got a backfire, it sounds to me like timing (since you have compression) Crank sensor? What controls timing in these things since the good old distributor is gone.

That or weak/some missing cylinder spark (if the backfire was a fluke)

 

[CrankyGypsy]

just throwing this out there - don't want you to try this without someone else confirming:

when I had both of mine apart, I noticed a lot of gunk (that grey paste-like mix of very fine metal and oil) built up inside my flywheel, which is common. I used some brake cleaner on a paper towel to gently clean it off.
I wonder how likely some extra gunk might have [shifted] into that area while sitting and is causing weak spark?

 

[andyak]

With the coil's at each spark plug is it not difficult to get a weak spark?

Is the voltage at provided to each coil controlled by the ECM - is it a function of what is provided from the stator or not?

Since I can run Spark tests with with yds...

 

[ToddW850]

Just throwing this out there. Not sure what all you dismantled and all to work on replacing the gasket, but at any time did you pull the spark plug wires? If so, did they all go back to the correct cylinder?

Was running your issues by my brother-in-law and he mentioned that.

Just trying to rack my brain to figure out what it could be.

 

[OperationROL]

Just throwing this out there. Not sure what all you dismantled and all to work on replacing the gasket, but at any time did you pull the spark plug wires? If so, did they all go back to the correct cylinder?

Was running your issues by my brother-in-law and he mentioned that.

Just trying to rack my brain to figure out what it could be.

That sounds logical. I would recheck the wires to ensure connection and correct connection.

 

[andyak]

All wires are numbered and are only correct length to each cylinder- re impossible to screw up

 

[Scottintexas]

I'm sorry I can't be more help, I'm a novice at best,
This is my YDS diagnostic page (it took the row and column borders out when I copied it)
does your's on the right hand side show the lanyard switch being off? (I'm surprised they don't have the cleanout hatch switch noted also).

did you do a continuity test or swap the lanyard / clean out hatch switches to positively rule them out?

4.Engine Monitor
Monitor Item (DATA) Result Unit Monitor Item ON/OFF Result
Engine speed 1634 r/min Engine stop lanyard switch OFF
Intake pressure 70.86 kPa Overheat thermoswitch OFF
Intake pressure 20.93 inHg Slant detection switch OFF
Atmospheric pressure 978.2 hPa Oil press switch OFF
Atmospheric pressure 28.9 inHg Steering switch OFF
Ignition timing BTDC 7 deg No-Wake mode switch OFF
Battery voltage (12-16) 14.59 V
TPS voltage (0.5-4.5) 0.762 V
Throttle valve opening (0-90) 1.5 deg
Fuel injection duration 3.15 ms
Engine temperature (below 130) 44 °C
Engine temperature (below 266) 111.2 °F
Intake temperature (below 70) 30 °C
Intake temperature (below 158) 86 °F
Bypass valve motor 0 step

 

[MikeyL]

I have 1 thought, as a last resort. I realize it most likely will not cure this problem, but I keep thinking it MIGHT !
Why not BY-PASS the Safety Lanyard and Clean-Out port switches on that engine's "side" ? Just WHAT if 1 of these is defective ?
Just a thought ..... Less than 2 cents worth, but an honest attempt. Good Luck, Mikey Lulejian - Lake Oconee, GA

 

[Andy S]

If it is a cleanout hatch switch then the engine won't turn over. If it is the lanyard switch the engine will turn over but won't fire. To bypass the lanyard switch it is a simple as electrically disconnecting the switch. The lanyard electrical connection is within a foot of the lanyard switch.

 

[Zeus2013]

Strange you had a backfire. That usually means timing is off. I would just go through every connection, disconnect and reconnect.Check all fuses, wires, and anything else you can see. Just because you did not touch it, does not mean it was not bumped off. Best of luck.

 

[CrankyGypsy]

blaming timing in this scenario just doesn't make sense to me: it's a "closed system" in that you have to open it to change timing. BUT he only removed the exhaust. am I wrong in thinking that there is no possible way it could be out of time?

therefore, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the timing chain would need to break or the tensioner would have to fail for there to be a timing issue. and if he is getting compression, I think that rules those out. right?