Help! Mystery starting problem

[andyak]

I also put new parts in the oil pump. The old major parts seem fine-

The one thing I would replace in future engines is the press in shaft oil seal.

Mine was intact, but the rubber was old and hard. I used a sliding hammer with puller claws to get it out. New one gets tapped or pressed in.

 

[Zeus2013]

Glad it worked out for you.

 

[smthng]

Dude, you're totally my hero! I can't imagine ever having the time or ability to do all that.

But, I can give you recommended break ins for that engine on a motorcycle... I can't see why it would be much different on the boats, other than having to convert miles to hours (which I'm doing in my head as we go, assuming an average of 40 miles equals about an hour of run time).

I used to be very active in the sport bike and long distance touring communities... generally they agree on new motor break in unless you're planning on doing a rebuild for every race. I've been doing this for about 15 years on all my bikes and I've never had to rebuild. Some of those bikes had over 150,000 miles on them.

Basically, run two-three hours with the oil you have and be very gentle with it. No sudden accelleration, no overheating, you just want to run it. Vary the RPMs as much as possible... never sit at one RPM range for more than a minute or two. Letting a new engine (or rebuild) run at a constant RPM while breaking in is probably the worse than flogging it. Actual RPMs don't make a lot of difference, as long as they're varied and you're not pegging it.

Change the oil and filters, most riders prefer to run dinosaur oil for the first few changes... it seems to do a better job on the initial break in. The next 4 hours you need to be a bit more aggressive on the acceleration and RPM range. You still want to be nice to it and don't run it at the same RPM for more than 10 minutes or so, but you want to occasionally "punch it" and run it to the max RPM that you plan to use. If you're going to peg it in regular use, peg it now. You also want to really generate some torque on it during this period. You don't want to cavitate, but you want to really get it to push you back in the seat occasionally. Basically, you're setting up the engine to be able to run the way you want it to during this period. If you run at a single RPM, that'll become the only RPM it really wants to run at. If you don't make it do the work now, it won't want to do it later. If you want to occasionally run it at full throttle, do it now or it won't like doing later.

One of my tuners explained all this to me once over beers, but it's been a long time. There's a name for this method that I could probably find if I had to. If the above isn't enough, let me know and I'll go hunting. GL!

 

[Big Shasta]

Controversial but a lot of truth in this:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[smthng]

Controversial but a lot of truth in this:...

Thanks... that's what I couldn't remember... the Motoman break-in method. I've run my last 5 Yamaha motorcycles using this method and they've never needed more than a valve adjustment in their lifetime. I know the current owner of my FJR1300 has over 150000 miles on it and it's been ridden "assertively" it's whole life.

 

[Scottintexas]

Andyak - I'm sorry I wasn't clearer, I meant on the exhaust pipe,

 

[andyak]

@Scottintexas - Yeah thanks, I saw that info on the other site - and I made sure it was clear with compressed air

 

[rkluck]

Very nicely done! I love to do this but can't seem to find time any more! Maybe in a few years I will have lots of time!

 

[itsdgm]

Congrats on getting it up and running again. You should be voted for the "JBN Mechanic of the Year"

 

[andyak]

I got out onto lake Houston for about 45 minutes before the rain came. Engine ran great - did the various rpm runs - good hard runs to seat rings. Ran like a top - exhaust manifolds on both engines could be touched by hand and were not even warm.

Just made it onto trailer when hard rain hit. I started the port engine to rev out excess water, then attempted new starboard rebuild - and she would not turn over ($#@#!)

Was very upset. By the time I got home and parked her - both engines started right up no problem!

so... hopefully this was a fluke after first run...

 

[jawsf16]

Glad you got it fixed. Very impressive! I also like the convertible modification although probably not as versatile as an engine cover!!

 

[rkluck]

I hope it was a fluke as well! Great job!

 

[andyak]

After prepping for rebuild of my extra engine, I looked further at the scuffed pistons from the non starting engine when I went to harvest the rods.
The piston rings are completely seized on each piston and will not budge - I believe this was the cause of the problem. I am not sure how this came to be. I have put a lot of fresh gas in since, and have ordered some yamaha ring free to try to avoid this in the future!

Good news is the machine shop only had to do a regular Honing of the cylinders as the scraped were so light that they wouldn't even catch your fingernail. So oem normal sized pistons will be used.

I will do a video of this rebuild and post later for your benefit.

 

[biglar155]

This is awesome. Nice job.

After watching your video, I'm not sure which is more impressive: All the work you did or the fact that you have a WORKING factory depth-finder!

 

[Ryan Vogels]

Be glad you have the 140 hp engines. Life isn't quite this easy with the high output engines Either way, nice job! I broke mine in by pushing as much water as I could at the lowest rpm possible..... 4k seems to work well. But again, that is a touch different on mine. You may want to grab and infared temp gun and bring it with you. it makes it really easy to check on your new engine. You can easily compare temps of each cylinder at the exhaust ports. You can check head temps and oil pan temps. You can also compare it to the running engine. If you have any questions, I may be a decent resource. I have a fraken-engine in mine

 

[andyak]

thanks for all the positivity guys!
replaced the shift cables the other day and now my speedometer stopped working... hopefully didn't hurt the line in the clean-out area gotta check around

We took the boat out today and put on around 16 miles at various rpms runs great!

I put in a new negative cable to the starter and a 2 battery switch with an agm battery - solved my starting issue

 

[Julian]

replaced the shift cables the other day and now my speedometer stopped working

Did you check behind the helm that you didn't pop the hose off the back of the speedo? Also check the pitot pickup to make sure it a)didn't flip up or b)get clogged.

Great work on the engines!

 

[andyak]

So..... Rebuilding the extra engine off the boat. I just got the short block all done.
New:
Pistons
rings
rod bolts/nuts
wrist pins
new crank and rod bearings
new oil "o" ring
hondabond thin coat to join crankcase halves
new main bolts
*** new outer crank case bolts - one oversized m8


I had the engine together 2 weeks ago and was putting final out crank bolts in (only 15 nm torque) and one of them snapped! Then I was going to leave it and fix later and.... another one snapped!!

So, I had 2 snapped bolts in the outercrank case... ARGH!


I took it all apart again...

I was able to tap and extract one bolt, the other one was a B@$H! I drilled it all the way out and then was stuck with an oversized slightly off hole..

I ended up putting both halves together to use as guide and tapped helicoil for oversized M8 bolt. This worked after careful drilling.

SO IF YOU HAVE SALTWATER ENGINE - buy NEW BOLTS for any engine work!!! the m6 bolts looked fine - but they snapped right at the start of the threads. You have to order 10 new stretch to yield main block bolts anyway - so learn from my pain - just get all the engine bolts NEW

 

[andyak]

New project.... could not resist 2002 FX140 with 180 hours - running but with only 90 psi in cylinder 3. Recent problem - was running fine 2 weeks ago. Got it with brand new trailer from their new ski for under $2000. so ANOTHER engine to rebuild - but should be cake compared to last 2. and I can replace it with rebuilt engine right away and have a good ski for cheap

I had forgotten that these skis allow the MR1 140 to be pushed to 12,000 rpm... I wonder why the boats tuned down to 10k...