Help! Mystery starting problem

[CrankyGypsy]

weak spark: if it is indeed weak, that would mean there is something somewhere causing the signal to bleed off, right? either grounding away or causing resistance. if it is resistance, something is going to heat up. @andyak what is the "bypass motor" you referred to earlier that was overheating?

 

[andyak]

Today's update:

Completely remove the engine again.
Remove stater cover checked out inside everything looked really clean and nice no buildup no nothing. I cleaned it out good with some cleaner and put some fresh oil on the moving parts I had a new O-ring and put it back together to the correct torque 50nm.

Reconnected everything wearing harnesses all the hoses throttle cable fuel line etc. bolted down had a bear with the bolt under the exhaust on the foot again.

Tried to fire it up a couple little burps was all I got and then just same old cranking and no start.

II think I'm done on this one. there's not much more I can do

 

[ToddW850]

Today's update:

Completely remove the engine again.
Remove stater cover checked out inside everything looked really clean and nice no buildup no nothing. I cleaned it out good with some cleaner and put some fresh oil on the moving parts I had a new O-ring and put it back together to the correct torque 50nm.

Reconnected everything wearing harnesses all the hoses throttle cable fuel line etc. bolted down had a bear with the bolt under the exhaust on the foot again.

Tried to fire it up a couple little burps was all I got and then just same old cranking and no start.

II think I'm done on this one. there's not much more I can do

Sure hate to hear that. But you've done everything and more of what we could all come up with. Will be eagerly awaiting an update when it's figured out.

 

[PaulyB]

It doesn't rule out a faulty cam shaft or crank shaft position sensor which tells the ECM when to fire which cylinder.... I don't know which these engines have though.... I'm still new to them myself.... But I think a crank no start condition on a efi vehicle can relate to a cam or crank position sensor going bad...

 

[Scottintexas]

@PaulyB
mr1's have a cam position sensor that will either give you a flash code on the dash or you can see it on the YDS which hopefully would have been an easy diagnosis,
here's a copy from my YDS print out,
1.Diagnosis
Item Result Code
Pulser coil Normal 13
Engine temp sensor Normal 15
Throttle position sensor Normal 18
Battery voltage Normal 19
Intake temp sensor Normal 23
Cam position sensor Normal 24
Intake press sensor Normal 29
Slant detection switch Normal 47
Bypass valve motor Normal 54
Steering switch Normal 55
Throttle body Normal 63
No-Wake mode switch Normal 68

 

[andyak]

Btw. Does anyone have a translation for all the symbols from port to starboard (6 diff symbols over 2 tachs). I had the middle symble light up once on starboard tach over last 4 days.

I think I will swap cam sensors just to be sure.

 

[Scottintexas]

this is a screen shot from the maintenance manual, do you mean the engine, oil, temp lights, 3 on each tach ?

 

[itsdgm]

Have you tried to swap coils over from the other engine? Also, swap the connectors on the ignition, lanyard switches and the cleanout switches to see if the problem swaps to the other engine. The cleanout switches do have two separate circuits. One cuts out the ignition, the other disables the starter. So swapping them will rule out the switch 100%.

Sorry to hear about your issue, good luck with your fix. BTW, reading your initial post, I'm not sure exactly why/what your original issue for removing the engine in the first place.

 

[andyak]

Engines were removed re my other post on replacing the collector gaskets on the exhaust that were leaking. All switches work properly. verified with YDS.

UPDATE: Boat is now at the Dealer in Conroe TX - promised a diagnosis by Friday.

 

[Scottintexas]

I don't know whether to give that a thumb's up or thumb's down? Sorry we couldn't help you find the problem but we look forward to hearing what the dealer says so we can reference it in the future, please keep us updated and hope you get back out on the water soon,

 

[Zeus2013]

I don't know whether to give that a thumb's up or thumb's down? Sorry we couldn't help you find the problem but we look forward to hearing what the dealer says so we can reference it in the future, please keep us updated and hope you get back out on the water soon,

Agreed, any troubleshooting solutions like this could be very helpful for everyone.

 

[andyak]

Ha. Yes. The symbols on my starboard tach must have faded as they look different except for the engine one

I will update when I get info. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[andyak]

Ok guys need advice asap!

Dealer can't figure it out says they have low compression on ALL cylinders.

Thinks it is either timing (woodruff key slipped?) or head bad or head gasket or block!??

They want $550 to pull engine and disassemble to further diagnose.

Should I let them? Or bring it home and pull engine myself and start disassembly here and save money toward repair or replacement?

Baffling as it just ran last month at 9500 rpm on the Lake and hasn't been run since.

Anyone with experience removing head and working on timing etc?

 

[Scottintexas]

sorry to hear that, I was really hoping for an easy answer,

I guess it depends on how much you trust the dealership mechanic to do it right vs. how your mechanical skills are, we have had VERY few people ever talk about having to explore timing issues.

I have 2005 service manual I would be glad to lend you if you need it, just pm me your phone number, my mom is in Houston so I go your way regularly.

 

[rkluck]

Interesting. You mentioned earlier you had 100 PSI on every cylinder (+/- 10%)? A worn gasket on the tester would only reduce the pressure reading. I made the mistake of assuming that this was about the correct PSI according to the manual. What is the PSI supposed to be? At this point I would let the dealer fix it since you still don't really know what is wrong. But as you said you can save money doing it yourself. Consider you will be charged for the work the dealer had done already.

 

[Scottintexas]

the manual says 164 psi with a min. of 157 and should be less than 14 psi difference between cylinders,

 

[rkluck]

Well there you go! They are all low as the dealer stated.

 

[andyak]

Well then since it just ran fine last time my guess is somehow the head gasket - engine is lifted from head.

What else would cause low pressure on all cylinders?
Unless the timing chain slipped

 

[CrankyGypsy]

not sure how you might've messed the gasket - i banged the hell out of my exhaust to free it and i doubt it could've budged anything.
not sure how the woodruff could slip out.
so it sounds like the shop has ruled out chain problems, though? i had two chain issues on my 1999 Hayabusa in 2000 and 2001. there ended up being a recall on the tensioner for most of the Suzuki's that generation. after the original tensioner failed (causing the chain to go all slop), i got paranoid and had the warranty shop put in a manual tensioner. well, i guess they set it too tight because it snapped the chain a year later. whoops. another rebuild and i was back on the updated OEM self-adjusting tensioner. both times, i was moving when this occurred and it was like someone hit the kill switch ...it's a very deceptive issue because most would probably think there would be a horrendous sound. there wasn't

this is a tough choice. i usually insist/love to do my own work, but i think i would be inclined to let the shop handle this one at this point. i've torn into sportbike engines before, but i knew what i was going in to do. i'd almost rather be frustrated at paying extra money for them to chase it down than to be frustrated if i open it and can't find the problem.

 

[andyak]

Boats back in my garage. Will pull engine tonight. May have lined up a running replacement- if it works out

Then I can take my time figuring out what is up with this engine.

Most likely you are right and the tensioner gave out or chain bad - I can't see losing compression across the board any other way. Hopefully there is some help on lining up the cams and timing here if that is the problem