Help! Mystery starting problem

[andyak]

I saw spark In the light. Plugs were not grounded well just sitting on block - when one rolled to side I even got spark between engine and metal insert in plug coil where bolt holds it down- as it was closer to ground at that point.

Toward the end I checked spark on working engine and it seemed comparable.

Working engine sounds different when cranks( starts really fast too)

Bad engine seems to crank fast and whine more. Which makes sense if compression compromised.

Back when testing, I put some seafoam Ina and cranked without plugs and it all blew out- so I could tell valves were cycling. Then I put in a little Lucas oil in each cylindar to help compression- you know the story - still no startup.

 

[andyak]

I wish the dealer tech would have tested spark with their gauge- but he just stopped at compression - then it was going to be $550 to pull engine and start diagnosis. I didn't have a good feeling on the total cost involved and decided to bring it back to find fix and save cash for a used waverunner engine if needed

 

[andyak]

Can anyone confirm that with the cam timing marks lined up AND the sprocket correct that piston 1 should be at TDC?

 

[andyak]

Just confirmed that at the cam timing marks piston one is at top dead center exactly with all valves closed about to begin the power stroke

So my timing is all fine.

The only other possible way to get a drastic loss in compression through movement of the engines I believe would have to be the head gasket seal

What say you all?

 

[Andy S]

Just confirmed that at the cam timing marks piston one is at top dead center exactly with all valves closed about to begin the power stroke

So my timing is all fine.

The only other possible way to get a drastic loss in compression through movement of the engines I believe would have to be the head gasket seal

What say you all?

Not sure what else it could be, but I'm shocked that it would fail such that all 4 cylinders would have lower than normal compress. I guess it is time to pull the head and take a look.

 

[smthng]

Not much help, but if looking for technical data on that engine I know that the FJR 1300 motorcycles use a bored out R1 engine and a lot more electronics. Might be helpful to see what an FJR service manual has to say. Just a thought. This is all way above my head, but I'm following along as best as I can.

 

[andyak]

Update.
Pulled head

In order to pull you have to remove oil storage tank and make a mess on the floor

Then you need a helped to hold timing chain in tension and feed through head while you remove so as to not lose place on crank sprocket.

Exhaust removal is only necessary past the inner seal. IE you can keep the manifolds and the collector and pipe 1&2 - actually gives good grip for removal.

The head came off really easy. Two of the head bolts in center did not "Pop" loose like the others- they were a little less tight.

All the valves and the Pistons look fine.

I can only hope I have my compression back after I get my upper end seal kit next week and reassemble it.

 

[andyak]

Pics

 

[itsdgm]

WOW. You do not mess around. Just get inside and get it done. I like your style!!! Hopefully the seal kit will do it. I'm crossing my fingers for you.

 

[ToddW850]

WOW. You do not mess around. Just get inside and get it done. I like your style!!! Hopefully the seal kit will do it. I'm crossing my fingers for you.

I was thinking the same thing. Well, that and he is WAY passed my level now.

 

[smthng]

That there freaks me right out! Those parts should never see the light of day!

 

[rkluck]

Wow you did do that fast. I am not an expert by any means and just a "shade tree" mechanic but I didn't see anything that looked like the gasket was blown. Did you see any sign anywhere on the head or block? Did you put a straight edge across the head and block just to make sure there was no warping? I know this has to be frustrating for you. I have had two mechanical issues that caused me multiple repetitive work and one was a bad value on an engine. One cylinder had low compression. I had the head re-worked and when I got it all together I had the same problem. After a lot of other work (removing piston etc.) it all came back to the head. The head shop worked it again and actually discovered they had not done the head correctly (if at all). After it was all put back to together all was well. I just say this because I hated taking that thing apart several time and a lot of extra work.

 

[Trm1765]

andyak,, wow,, I can only imagine how frustrated you must be with this,, this is very bizarre.. with my sick sense of humor though I do appreciate that this is definitely the best ongoing drama series on the web.. I keep looking for the next episode to come out so I can see what is happening...Good luck,, I hope you figure it out and are not to bent out of shape when you figure out it was some silly wire that didn't get put back in place or something simple like that....

 

[RightStuff]

View attachment 20843

This picture freaked me out the most... Cannot unsee the face behind the block!
Is the pic upside down, or right side up, kind of creepy.

 

[andyak]

My plan is to put cams back in head and make sure that all valves work and spin straight etc. - and clean valves and seats and make sure head is flat before assembling with new gasket.

Tried to think outside the box :
The only other things could be - injectors plugged up with micro aluminum metal dust from my grinding exhaust manifold off (garage was covered) and so cylinders dry and not getting compression. (not very likely)

Or microdust got into intake and is on the valves causing bad seals across the board.

Or oil pump went out and so getting dry and no compression - there was plenty of oil on top of head and then all over the head gasket when I pulled apart.

There was only a little over 100lb compression across the board, so something uniformly affected all the cylinders from removal, re installation and attempted restart - never ran again since removal.

 

[andyak]

Sunday I drove up to north dallas and pickup up a 2002 FX140 for parts. pulled the engine, jet drive etc.
Engine has slightly different oil rout and no pressure equalizer - also has coils separate from the plugs - uses old school plug wires. Other difference is there is no bypass pump (air) in the throttle body assembly.

I will be working on this guy to see what is up - 1 cylinder has a stuck valve from sitting so I have to open it up as well - others are 160 lbs.

waiting for someone to want to get the hull with the few parts I left on it - hard to find anywhere to dump these fiberglass beasts!

 

[andyak]

 

[andyak]

Here is the different black box on lower starboard side that has a direct oil line to bottom near pump - my 2005 engine does not have this. Boy can I tell this was sitting in fresh water... a lot cleaner and bolts actually turn!

 

[andyak]

This picture freaked me out the most... Cannot unsee the face behind the block!
Is the pic upside down, or right side up, kind of creepy.

Yeah the pic uploaded upside down - it is kinda spooky!

 

[andyak]

Anyone worked on heads- do you use 2 stroke oil on bolts like manual says - and molybnium disulfide grease on cams? Seems like the whole area is bathed in engine oil when run...