LED Cupholders

[Bruce]

What size wiring did you use. The LEDs should not be pulling much current.

I think either you have a bad LED strip or you have a short somewhere.

 

[robert843]

Yeah next time out I'm going to bring my spare battery and test each one. And plan it from there. I was using either 16 or 18 gauge it was small wire but the one that was heating up had 6 LEDs connected to it.

 

[Bill D]

@robert843 if you have a multi-meter, check how much current the strips are drawing. I'd be surprised if it is much. An entire 3m strip is only 72 watts (6A). You may also want to check resistance between the end of your lead and the next bare copper spot on the strip. A bad solder joint will cause a high resistance connection. You should see less than 1 ohm.

 

[tdonoughue]

Yes, my bet is that you have a short somewhere. Like one of the solders crossed over and shorted out the connection or something. LED's draw almost nothing, so if you are drawing enough to get something hot, that is a short.

 

[robert843]

I agree. I'm going to have to check them one by one next time I'm down there. Just installed some a few minutes ago in my friends truck to light up his floor with no issues its got to be something simple.

 

[2nazt]

Best of luck and hope you get it figured out! I agree it has to be a bad connection I chase those at work all day.

 

[txav8r]

This is the main reason for segmenting your install and fusing each run. It is also why they should be alone and take up 80% of fusing on each leg, with a main fuse for the entire lighting group on the switch, also at 80%. Note that only a 5 meter spool of SMD 5050 chips will be 72 watts for the strip...if they contain 300 chips. All strip lighting isn't the same, it now comes in probably 12 different chips, and any number of chips per spool. So it is dependent on how many chips, chip wattage, and length. RGB is typically 5050, and it is also common to have 300 chips per 5 meter (16') spool. Convert to amps and use a fuse that the spool amps represent 80% of the fuse capacity. It is a misconception that LED's do not get hot. They don't get "as hot" as incandescent bulbs but they can still get warm. Like anything electrical, heat represents resistance. I might just throw out any that are unusually warm or hot and use another spool. They are cheap enough today to get extra in case you run into issues.

Question...

Are your courtesy lights LED bulbs? If not, change them to LED. You could be maxing out the breaker for them if you didn't change them to less amperage.

 

[robert843]

This is the main reason for segmenting your install and fusing each run. It is also why they should be alone and take up 80% of fusing on each leg, with a main fuse for the entire lighting group on the switch, also at 80%. Note that only a 5 meter spool of SMD 5050 chips will be 72 watts for the strip...if they contain 300 chips. All strip lighting isn't the same, it now comes in probably 12 different chips, and any number of chips per spool. So it is dependent on how many chips, chip wattage, and length. RGB is typically 5050, and it is also common to have 300 chips per 5 meter (16') spool. Convert to amps and use a fuse that the spool amps represent 80% of the fuse capacity. It is a misconception that LED's do not get hot. They don't get "as hot" as incandescent bulbs but they can still get warm. Like anything electrical, heat represents resistance. I might just throw out any that are unusually warm or hot and use another spool. They are cheap enough today to get extra in case you run into issues.

Question...

Are your courtesy lights LED bulbs? If not, change them to LED. You could be maxing out the breaker for them if you didn't change them to less amperage.

The LED lights I did not even feel it was one of the wires the got hot. I'm running single color 5050 led's I do not recall the chip count. I did run probably about 20ft of LED's total not including the 4 speakers. When I go back which unfortunately will be about 2 weeks I plan to test each unit on its own a see if I can find the problem child and I plan to run each on its on to a bus box at least then if the issue persists I can narrow it down to the strip or strips are having the issue. Attached is a very rough drawing of how it was wired today. None of the lights in the bow came on and the wire leading to the bow is the one that got hot so I'm assuming my issue was there. The black is the boat the blue is the LED's and the red is the wires. The red circles are the points where I combined all and tapped into power. The open blue circles are cup holders the closed blue circles are speakers.

 

[Bruce]

Sounds like you have a problem, likely a short, in one of the bow lights.

I used thin four wired perhaps 22 or 20 gauge wire strips for my RGB Cupholder lights. Even that small wire was rated for 300 watts.

What LED strips did you use? The draw should be so low that you should not have any problems with the current capacity of your wiring.

 

[robert843]

@Bruce I bought these ones but it doesn't really have any info.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/381518994492?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[txav8r]

As I said previously, 300 5050 LED's on a 5 meter spoil are 72 watts. That is 0.24 watts per chip. That is per the link you provided.

 

[Bruce]

Looking at your drawing you ran more LEDs than I expected. I thought it was just cup holders.

Those LED strips you linked to are 5050 SMD with 300 LEDs per meter. So they likely use around 72 watts per 5 meter strip.

Do you know how much power the speaker LEDs use? How many feet of LED strip did you use?

The courtesy lights likely have a 10 amp breaker. Two full strips of those LEDs would be right at the trip point for that breaker if not over.

 

[tdonoughue]

If my math is right, that 72 watts is 6 amps at 12 volts. Two of them puts you to 12 amps.

 

[robert843]

I probably used about 20ft but the wire that got hot had a lot more running on it then the other wires. I'm looking but have not found how much the speakers pull. I still think something maybe reversed in the line upfront causing the issue but I will know more when I get back out there. I'm going to have to try and find a wiring diagram or something on the switch for that light as I still think it maybe best for me just to run them all individual it will be more work and more wire but atleast I will have it done correctly and be able to isolate any issue quickly as well. Thanks for all the input guys!

 

[tdonoughue]

Were you able to check each run with the 9v battery before installation? I wonder if you could clip some wires and test them where they are, working your way around the boat? Might save you from redoing the whole thing...

 

[robert843]

Were you able to check each run with the 9v battery before installation? I wonder if you could clip some wires and test them where they are, working your way around the boat? Might save you from redoing the whole thing...

I tested them all just before install and all was good but that doesn't mean at some point during the install I didn't break one of the solder joints on accident I probably should have retested as I was running wires through each step. Biggest issue I experienced today was on the drivers side while trying to release the wires that were connected to the courtesy light the lead was to short and the fell behind the console I have no clue how I'm getting those wires back lol so I may have to rerun the wires that connect that courtesy light.

 

[txav8r]

Take out the throttle quadrant and use a mechanics grab tool, a light, and a mechanics mirror. Your not in Virgin territory!

 

[txav8r]

Disconnect the bow lights and test the entire loop with your 9V battery. Connect it up with alligator clips and go move everything near each connection downstream and it will help you identify where your short is. If they don't light when you connect the battery, disconnect. Then move all the way downstream to the end connection and disconnect and test it, moving back upstream one connection at a time until you find what is shorting. Remember that LEDs can demand correct polarity. And in some cases, they won't care. What that means is that they can run with either the positive on either contact and negative on the opposite. This isn't true often with LED's. They almost always have to have the right polarity to work. However, hooking them up backwards won't cause a fire or hear, they just won't work (illuminate). 12V lighting is very safe overall.

I'm going to review your diagram again. What did you do differently hooking your bow lights up, that you didn't do hooking the stern run up?

 

[txav8r]

After reviewing your diagram again...

Just disconnect the forward bow section from your junction (solid red circle) on the port side. Test from that point the forward loop. Then move to the end of that loop and test each section again individually. At some point, you have a short. The heat is alarming to me. I would be tempted if it were me, to get rid of any section that was involved with that.

 

[txav8r]

And another note...it is very possible where the lead for a cupholder loop enters the cupholder, to short or get cut by the cupholder, if you don't really strain relieve that area and protect it from that situation. Even grommets I used in those holes got cut up because the hold was a tad irregular. I had to remove them and elongate the holes so the wire lead could pass through it without any restriction of tendency to lean against any edge. Hope this helps! I did my first LED wiring job on my first Yamaha over 8 years ago now. It was much easier then, I know I can still do it, but the desire to contort around and possibly get trapped in a compartment again is more of a concern! Yes, I got trapped in one! My wife found me thankfully about 10 minutes after. I don't go into them now if no one else is home and without a cell phone...THAT I CAN REACH!