Lucky 13 ( L13 ) Anti-Cavitation Cone Install / 2016 AR240

[swatski]

My cone was on backorder, but tracking info says it's due to be delivered today. Can't wait to try it out.

Had the boat out on the water yesterday. The cavitation under turning is still REALLY bad. I'm thinking something else is wrong as well though. Only getting 7550 RPM at WOT with two adults and one 6yr old. Ambient temps were around 65deg and water was down in the 50's. I'm not at "high" altitude with the lake only being at 535ft above sea level.

Incremental tests are going to start with the L13 cone installation. Then I'll pull the "ribbon" (why do we call it that, it's the spark arrestor) and see where that gets me.

The ribbon is a must, and the L13 is great, but I would also try the @gmtech16450yz intake grate mod - sharpening the bars and removing the cross member. I don't have the exact data but have a good feeling this is helping to keep the pump loaded in hard turns.

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[F.M.]

That is really great!

Makes me wonder about the hole shot cavitation... Playing with the washers is definitely a good idea. But I would maybe also double check the tunnels' sealing - if it's all intact, some gaps around transom plates and wear rings can be hard to spot.
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Checked the tunnels. All looks good except right inside the grate on both tunnels (exact same place on both) there is about 2" of sealant that looks caved/sunken in. So I'll fill that in before going back out this week to try different washer combos.

Looking at the dry weight difference of our boats, mine is about 400-500 lbs heavier. Do you think that would be enough to make the washer setup of our cones drastically different?

 

[swatski]

Looking at the dry weight difference of our boats, mine is about 400-500 lbs heavier. Do you think that would be enough to make the washer setup of our cones drastically different?

It shouldn't, and I believe the impeller part numbers (and pitch) are the same. I don't get much cavitation at all until I fill all my wake surfing ballast - and that is pushing 3,000lbs.

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[F.M.]

So.. out again today for an hour or two with the wife. I went 4 washers (red, blue, 2 gold) port and 2 (red, blue) strbd. Cavitation is gone and I hit 49 but I lost 200 rpm. And then I realized I left my 6mm t-handle on the workbench. So I guess I'll be back out on Thursday to try 3-2 and 3-0.

 

[F.M.]

@swatski

On the twin engine E-series boats, in single lever mode, both engine rpms seem to always be matched perfectly. If one engine is loaded too much from having too many washers on the cone, will the other engine rpm be lowered to match?

If so, I've got a lot of washer roulette to play.

 

[swatski]

@swatski

On the twin engine E-series boats, in single lever mode, both engine rpms seem to always be matched perfectly. If one engine is loaded too much from having too many washers on the cone, will the other engine rpm be lowered to match?

If so, I've got a lot of washer roulette to play.

That is a @Mainah question! - about the Connext drive control, lol.
I would think that if you set the target high enough the system should let both engines lose - to achieve whatever the highest RPM before hitting the rev limiter (about 7,800 - varies by cylinder - sequentially cut off).

What I do with RideSteady (which synchronizes the engines I guess just like the "Single lever mode" - an awesome feature) in either GPS (speed) or RPM mode - I set the target higher than what's achievable (for a WOT run) - I still get the difference in the top RPM between the two engines. That difference can be corrected with the spacers or, alternatively, by re-pitching the trailing edge (just a small bend, actually fairly easy) or boring the venturi.

I would hope that likewise R-S, the Connext does not hold the slower engine back... But if it does the good news is you would still have a couple mph left on top!
There has to be a way to unleash it.


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[Mainah]

I have no idea how the BCM module is programmed in the e series. I can only tell you that it is the BCM that controls it.

 

[JBlue]

Have these cones been tried with the AR195 SVHO? I would assume the SVHO engine would have more cavitation due to the increased HP/acceleration?

 

[2kwik4u]

Have these cones been tried with the AR195 SVHO? I would assume the SVHO engine would have more cavitation due to the increased HP/acceleration?

I think the SVHO boats have a 160mm pump with significantly more aggressive pitch on the impellers. Leading to less cavitation overall.

 

[Lake_Spray]

Have these cones been tried with the AR195 SVHO? I would assume the SVHO engine would have more cavitation due to the increased HP/acceleration?

I think someone around here has done so. When I’m off mobile I’ll dig. If you do try it out and you have the 160 mm pump remember to order the right version. The larger pump has a different bolt pattern so there’s an L13 specifically for that.

I was out with my (AR190) Lucky 13 this weekend, still thinking it was worthwhile. I feel like maybe I’m getting slightly less impeller slip in the turns too—but I also switched fins recently so there might be too many variables in play to say it’s the L13.

 

[JBlue]

I think someone around here has done so. When I’m off mobile I’ll dig. If you do try it out and you have the 160 mm pump remember to order the right version. The larger pump has a different bolt pattern so there’s an L13 specifically for that.

I was out with my (AR190) Lucky 13 this weekend, still thinking it was worthwhile. I feel like maybe I’m getting slightly less impeller slip in the turns too—but I also switched fins recently so there might be too many variables in play to say it’s the L13.

No boat for me yet... going for the 2019 season. Asked more out of curiousity as I am looking at a 19 footer due to HOA restrictions on my lake. Trying to decide between AR190 vs. 195...

 

[swatski]

Have these cones been tried with the AR195 SVHO? I would assume the SVHO engine would have more cavitation due to the increased HP/acceleration?

Yes, @SamCF. Technically his is a 192 but he has done all the mods matching and exceeding 195, back and forth. Including the L13.
I wouldn't go without it in a single, albeit I never had a 195. Yet.

It does wonders to hole shot and eliminates cavitation like nothing else, but it does require some tuning.

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[2kwik4u]

Had a long weekend on the boat. Only put about 1/4 tank of fuel through it, but had two very unusual load cases.

Saturday was Party Day. Had 6 adults and 5 coolers headed for the local party spot. ZERO cavitation on launch, but would have preferred to let the motor "spin up" a little bit to get into some more power as we were heading out. Was somewhat slow to plane with such a heavy load. Still easily out performed my last boat, and I'm not upset in the least as I had an easy 1,600lbs of people and cargo aboard. But it was noticeably "sluggish" to rev to redline on launch. Hung around 7,000 or so until on plane, then slowly climbed to 7,4o0. Had a top speed of only 38mph, but had 3 ladies in the bow that made the slower speed acceptable, as the view was excellent. Once on plane I was able to adjust speed as needed for conditions and traffic, as well as make a few "fun" turns. The ribbon delete really added a considerable punch in the mid range, and the L13 seems to have helped control the cavitation that was there even before the ribbon delete.

Had a chance to really play with the boat for only the second time this season. Ran 1/2 the lake (7 miles or so) at WOT. Reasonably smooth water, and a nice cool morning on Sunday. Days like this don't come often for me with a 7yr old and 4mo old. Top speed was a nice 43mph, but still only about 7,450 consistent rpm. Boat was stable and smooth, and seemed to give no craps about "extended" WOT abuse.

Felt no sign of cavitation all weekend long. Even did some watersports on Sunday morning/afternoon and it easily yanked my 230lbs out of the water without hassle. Definitely need to get RideSteady though. Had a hard time maintaining speed for some reason. I suspect the wife was tired from Saturday and was a little more chatty than normal with other ladies on the boat.

Anywho, I noticed that I'm not getting "peak" rpm anymore. With the L13 installed (with all spacers in place), and a ribbon delete I was only getting about 7400rpm (as indicated on digital readout on tach). I stuck my head under the boat when we got home yesterday, and it still looks excellent. No signs of pitting, no nicks, and I couldn't get a credit card between the impeller and wear ring. My gut tells me that is in good shape. The sealing I did with the Loctite brand adhesive sealant is still holding as well, which I was a little surprised at honestly. Shouldn't I be up closer to 7800 rpm? If I should have more revs, whats the best way to start adjusting? Take a shim out or start boring the nozzle? I'm not into refurbishing/repitching an impeller am I? @swatski any thoughts?

 

[swatski]

Had a long weekend on the boat. Only put about 1/4 tank of fuel through it, but had two very unusual load cases.

Saturday was Party Day. Had 6 adults and 5 coolers headed for the local party spot. ZERO cavitation on launch, but would have preferred to let the motor "spin up" a little bit to get into some more power as we were heading out. Was somewhat slow to plane with such a heavy load. Still easily out performed my last boat, and I'm not upset in the least as I had an easy 1,600lbs of people and cargo aboard. But it was noticeably "sluggish" to rev to redline on launch. Hung around 7,000 or so until on plane, then slowly climbed to 7,4o0. Had a top speed of only 38mph, but had 3 ladies in the bow that made the slower speed acceptable, as the view was excellent. Once on plane I was able to adjust speed as needed for conditions and traffic, as well as make a few "fun" turns. The ribbon delete really added a considerable punch in the mid range, and the L13 seems to have helped control the cavitation that was there even before the ribbon delete.

Had a chance to really play with the boat for only the second time this season. Ran 1/2 the lake (7 miles or so) at WOT. Reasonably smooth water, and a nice cool morning on Sunday. Days like this don't come often for me with a 7yr old and 4mo old. Top speed was a nice 43mph, but still only about 7,450 consistent rpm. Boat was stable and smooth, and seemed to give no craps about "extended" WOT abuse.

Felt no sign of cavitation all weekend long. Even did some watersports on Sunday morning/afternoon and it easily yanked my 230lbs out of the water without hassle. Definitely need to get RideSteady though. Had a hard time maintaining speed for some reason. I suspect the wife was tired from Saturday and was a little more chatty than normal with other ladies on the boat.

Anywho, I noticed that I'm not getting "peak" rpm anymore. With the L13 installed (with all spacers in place), and a ribbon delete I was only getting about 7400rpm (as indicated on digital readout on tach). I stuck my head under the boat when we got home yesterday, and it still looks excellent. No signs of pitting, no nicks, and I couldn't get a credit card between the impeller and wear ring. My gut tells me that is in good shape. The sealing I did with the Loctite brand adhesive sealant is still holding as well, which I was a little surprised at honestly. Shouldn't I be up closer to 7800 rpm? If I should have more revs, whats the best way to start adjusting? Take a shim out or start boring the nozzle? I'm not into refurbishing/repitching an impeller am I? @swatski any thoughts?

Wow. Those are fantastic results.

Try your "Party Day" run without the L13 and you will be running back to reinstall it, lol.

Yamaha does not publish torque/HP curves, so it is hard to tell, but with the 1.8N/A engines 7,800 is at the electronic cut off. Getting that much better pull (which L13 consistently affords - in my experience - when dialed in correctly - seems to be the case with your boat now), combined with running the same top speed at lower RPM is a win-win.

I would leave it alone! Sounds like you have hit a sweet spot. If you must try other things (which I'd totally understand) - I would take one of two spacers out for testing (may be able to do this through the venturi opening, without pulling the pump), as far as the impeller you could always bend the trailing edge to slightly lower the pitch (you would bend the blades towards the leading edge) - you would regain the top RPM (before hitting the rev limiter (you might gain some top speed but getting there would take longer and your hole shot may suffer).

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[2kwik4u]

Well if @swatski says to leave it alone, I feel like that is the appropriate thing to do. I was expecting to get some advice on adjust this, or move that, or shave this, or change this other thing. I can certainly leave well enough alone if there are no gains to be had. I figured a few hundred more RPM might be worth another MPH, or possibly some faster time to plane. Sounds like I'm done messing with it until there is a problem at this point.

Any thoughts on pulling the snorkel/airbox off the intake? Maybe another 100rpm there or so? If not I'll just leave it be and go about my enjoyment of other things.

Also wanted to note the setup on the boat both days. Bimini deployed, american flag flapping, and windshield open. In no way was it setup as a "top speed run" with optimal aerodynamics or any of that. Just heading out for a cruise and decided to see what she would do.

Overall I've been really happy with this boat after these few minor mods. Even on "Party Day" this weekend I was only bested by a 2010 AR240 that had the same number of coolers and people aboard. No idea if he was WOT or not, but he easily left the rest of the group in an informal drag race. The two pontoons, and the tri-toon were all behind the two jets, even though I only beat out the tri-toon by a couple mph. Sunday morning was a different story. The AR240 went home, and a single 21' pontoon, and a 24' tri-toon headed out with us. I was a good 7-8mph faster than the tri-toon and handily walked away from them with the super light load.

Only in this extremely loaded example have I ever thought it was slow to plane. This has been once in 2 seasons that I've been loaded this heavy. Sure the 195 would've been nice in this case, but for just once a season, I'm OK with losing a little speed. We still got there with plenty of time to enjoy the bikini's and beers!

 

[tdonoughue]

I would defer to @swatski as well. Certainly he is the master. But I agree you sound like you have it dialed in. Personally, air filters are there for a reason (the ribbons are there for an outdated reason, IMHO). I would not risk my engine for another 100 rpm.

That said, I have had both of those: the Party Day full of folks and the good run at WOT. Nothing better.

 

[F.M.]

I'd leave the airbox alone too. You'd probably be fine, but not worth the risk.

I just keep a 6mm T-handle on board and change spacers at the ramp before I go out based on what I'm doing the most of throughout the day. That way it's always fine tuned to my load and driving habits.

This past Saturday we made 110 mile trip in our 242x. I took all the spacers out of my strbd cone and put a red and gold in the port side, so I could unload pumps slightly with hopes of better fuel economy. I did have some slight cavitation under hard acceleration with 6 adults in the boat, so I accelerated a little less aggressively and the drive was great. Wednesday when the wife and I go out for some "childless boating" I'll add the spacers back (might need an extra mph or two to beat someone to one of the private spots on the lake).

Sure you can find an all around spacer combo and leave it alone, but why not fine tune it when it can be done so easily.

 

[swatski]

Only in this extremely loaded example have I ever thought it was slow to plane.

I would think that this "slow to plane" situation with L13 would had been "very very slow to plane" without the L13. My results with the L13 in my 190 were so dramatic, it was not even funny.

I would probably leave the air filters alone, other than removing the ribbon (intake) and snorkel (filter box). There seems to be not much gain and the removal of those OEM filter boxes (for example replaced with aftermarket SS cones) results in substantial increase in engine noise, there is very little gain in RPM if any. I tried but I'm giving away those filters, actually.

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[2kwik4u]

.......That said, I have had both of those: the Party Day full of folks and the good run at WOT. Nothing better.

I tell you what, if I could find a way to do that every weekend I would. I suspect something like this what my retirement is going to look like!

I'd leave the airbox alone too. You'd probably be fine, but not worth the risk.

I just keep a 6mm T-handle on board and change spacers at the ramp before I go out based on what I'm doing the most of throughout the day. That way it's always fine tuned to my load and driving habits.

This past Saturday we made 110 mile trip in our 242x. I took all the spacers out of my strbd cone and put a red and gold in the port side, so I could unload pumps slightly with hopes of better fuel economy. I did have some slight cavitation under hard acceleration with 6 adults in the boat, so I accelerated a little less aggressively and the drive was great. Wednesday when the wife and I go out for some "childless boating" I'll add the spacers back (might need an extra mph or two to beat someone to one of the private spots on the lake).

Sure you can find an all around spacer combo and leave it alone, but why not fine tune it when it can be done so easily.

Love the idea of tuning per the days activities. I haven't tried swapping washer with the pump/nozzle togethor yet. I installed it once with all the washers, and havne't had a chance to readjust since. I usually have a 10-15 minute window at home where I can adjust before heading out. We're also pretty certain of loading for the day before heading out as well. I'll grab a T-Handle and toss it in the boat tool box so I can adjust on the fly if needed.

I would think that this "slow to plane" situation with L13 would had been "very very slow to plane" without the L13. My results with the L13 in my 190 were so dramatic, it was not even funny.

I would probably leave the air filters alone, other than removing the ribbon (intake) and snorkel (filter box). There seems to be not much gain and the removal of those OEM filter boxes (for example replaced with aftermarket SS cones) results in substantial increase in engine noise, there is very little gain in RPM if any. I tried but I'm giving away those filters, actually.

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I don't think the initial test results were indicative of the performance gain it offers. Back to back testing with a very light load showed little to no gain. As I continue to add load, either through aggressive tubing, or additional weight, the performance doesn't seem to drop off like it did before. It's not so much a gain in performance as it is a gain in consistency.

I meant to say remove the snorkel, not the air filters. I'll keep the filters in place. While the lake is typically some pretty clean air, it would only take a small item to rattle around in there and make a problem with extended WOT usage that boats see. I've debated on removing the airbox and replacing with some other form of cooler air intake, but I'm unsure where I would draw the cooler charge air from, or how that would affect sound. Anywho, sound like when I change the oil this season, I'll remove the snorkel. After that I'm probably done with with messing with engine performance mods.

The engine/pump combo seem to be working well, no need to mess with it any further. There are a laundry list of stereo/usability/functionality mods I have in mind that can get my attention for awhile.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice!

 

[Scottie]

Any discounts available for the L13 cones? I'm about to pull the trigger.