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My latest mistake

Jon Gottschalk

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@veedubtek I do see a simple solution here though. If @Jon Gottschalk is willing to sell an item and put his eBay reputation on it for some random 80 year old guy. Surely he is willing to relist the exact same post just changing the location to yours and resell it for you if you do not wish to mess with it or if you feel the item was not as described to you.
100%. I had no or little skin in the game for that gentleman other than he bit off more than he could chew and found out he had lung cancer just as he got the boat. I ask any of you what you would do for a guy that showed up like that on clearly a misunderstanding between him and me.

Regardless, those points are irrelevant to the fact that this is a good project boat and would have no problem relisting.
 

swatski

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The sale was an auction, Jon did not control the price.
There are many ways to manipulate that!!!
I would not be surprised at all if some bs bidding was taking place in that case.

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Jon Gottschalk

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I bet @Jon Gottschalk is moving on.

Next listing: as an agent for someone who's deployed overseas.

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I am not moving on and the only reason I did not chime in sooner is I was busy with vegas thing for ebay. I wish Walt would have reached out sooner to me as I told him, anything he needs at all I will get to him at cost and help if he feels wronged......
 

veedubtek

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It's neither here nor there. I didn't start the thread because I felt I was owed anything, just to get others perspectives on the matter as I have a habit of being too understanding and forgiving to a fault. I could easily push this out further, but it's not worth the stress and time.

As stated in the initial post, I have every intention of fixing the boat, and will do so.
 
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swatski

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I think @Jon Gottschalk did nothing wrong and owes the buyer nothing.
You are kidding, right?

This is in his description (among other BOGUS claims):
SPARK PLUGS WERE LOOKED AT(3 TOTAL) AND LOOKED GOOD AND NEW; PERHAPS CHANGED RECENTLY
(reposted in post #33 above)

He has given wordy responses, with little value. Classic bs artist. Words are cheap.

Yeah, a poor little 80 year old couple with cancer... give me a f@cking break. How about show me the plugs instead of cancer talk.
He is a warrior for old and frail... like I'm Pope Francis.

He never responded to post# 26.

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Jon Gottschalk

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There are many ways to manipulate that!!!
I would not be surprised at all if some bs bidding was taking place in that case.

I had 3 other people it looks to be very interested and over $7000. No bidding manipulation allowed on ebay and anyone who is willing to try that will get banned and their systems are very good now.

I did mispeak earlier with Bruce's boat he bought from me as I actually had 2 2007 sx230 identical over the years but both boat were bought with less than 20 hours in new condition; all other boats were bought just like this one and the only reason I did not keep was timing. Here is the list of other boats and all projects just like this one.
I will also say when I got the text yeseterday morning from Walt saying, "Im sure you have seen this thread but just in case here it is" with link for this thread. My first gut though was I was super pumped and was sure it was going to be Walt out on the water cruising around after finding an easy (however unlikely) easy fix.....I was shocked reading this instead. After reading this and seeing the spark plugs that I had not checked and did not think important after seeing 2 newer fired spark plugs, that there was absolutely zero info to gain from the plugs (as I assumed they all were recently changed, as I assume most would). Imagine you are looking at a ski that you were told did not run and you pulled the plugs (or only 1 plug forthat matter) and they looked recently changed or new. All that would tell anyone mechanically inclined is that someone changed plugs AFTER the engine issue or problem and would tell nothing about the state of the engine. I do feel I wished I had checked them all as why only two look that way is something I regret but would do over and over again in the same situation. I literally leaned over on the port engine, pulled the closest plug to me and thought it looked new. I than skipped the second one just to spread the inspection and it looked brand new. At that point I stopped but really thought I had checked one on the other engine as well. I also feel like having a fellow Jboater locally checking it out would have missed something that I pointed out...I am not perfect and gave it my best opinion but can never get ever perception for the buyer 100% and why I am always a fan of checking things out in person myself....even my own dad or brother or son misses things when buying something that I can point out or vice versa.....anyway, back to my list of boats I have a bought and prices and issues they had. They have all been my personal boats for years after and I feel that the prices reflect what this boat went for; as I stated I thought it was higher than my guestimate of $55-6000 to the old guy with cancer ( I will be posting emails for anyone interested from him when he initially emailed terrible pics, maybe 6 of them when I originally told him I was not interested in buying myself as time was not on my side). As far as not believing the BS story about this guy and cancer, I will and Walt will confirm the guy was from Michigan but you will have to take my word on the lung cancer as that was told to me after he showed up and why he was selling).

Anyway, YJBs in this order I have owned and prices:
2000 XR1800 (in or around 2006) - $6000 - needed new interior, top ends put back together, gas, carbs and cables
2007 SX230 (in or around 2008) - $33,000 - needed nothing
2000 LS2000 (in or around 2009/10? - $5500 - condition unknown at purchase as it had dead battery)from harley dealer), ended up engines were good and needed gas, carbs, cables.
2004 AR230 (2011?) - $6000, Ebay with cracked hull, defintely submerged and NO TRAILER. Interior was good, cables bad. Needed new engines.
2007 SX230 (bruces boat and year? 2012?) - $22,000 in Winter time. Mint with only 15 hours if I rememeber at scan; sold to Bruce for ------. Had 30 hours at sale.
2009 sx210 (2014?) - bought for $9000 with trailer. Interior silver only shot, 170 hours and ran but check engine lights. Needed sensors, cables, repaired top silver only and reused all white original vinyl (pic attached, elite mats, decals, rails - sold after used for 1 year for $18,000
2005 SX230 (2016?) - $1500. Bought boat unseen knowing engines were bad, interior bad, basically everything. Turned out engines ended up being perfect and dealer misdiagnosed them as hydrolocked due to faulty (common) ecu issue you all know abot Im sure, keeping injectors open, flooding engines and overfilling oil. Needed interior, cables, ecu's rebuilt ($250 a piece from Italy) Elite mats. Basically $3500 all in for a perfect boat and only had 60 hours on scan on it.

The point is regardless of all the chatter about me being dishonest or trying to screw someone over (and while completely the opposite ofcourse in my opinion of what happened) is that this was a pretty fair price, albeit a little higher than I thought for this kind of project boat. While I have boat newish boats, I have also loved the project boats. I have always expected the worse and while sometimes I have gotten lucky (like the 2005 for $1500, pic attached of that boat) I have also been dissapointed in some that they had more work than not expected, but hoped. Not once have I ever called back or gone alone to bash the seller. Walt, to you, I would say I have texted several times with you after the purchase and asked you directly to let me know what you found once you got further into the engines or jet pumps. As I told you, my next step would have been to pull pumps to see if they were bound and literal did not have the time to do that myself. I was kicking myself a bit for selling it instead of buying it (I could have gotten it for a bit less) but did not want it sitting for 6 months and than still having to store my other jet tender. These pics are after of 2009 sx210 and 2005 sx230. I wish I had taked some before pics but these boats did NOT look nearly as good as the 2006 sx230 walt bought. MUCH MUCH worse. The point is I LOVE this project type boat. Found the befores of interior. The 2005 all of the interior I redid ($1500). The 2009 sx210 (might actually be 2008?) I only replaced the top gray section; I re-used ALL of the original white ($900)

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Jon Gottschalk

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You are kidding, right?

This is in his description (among other BOGUS claims):

(reposted in post #33 above)

He has given wordy responses, with little value. Classic bs artist. Words are cheap.

Yeah, a poor little 80 year old couple with cancer... give me a f@cking break. How about show me the plugs instead of cancer talk.
He is a warrior for old and frail... like I'm Pope Francis.

He never responded to post# 26.

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While I appreciate your perspective, I sell anything from brand new jet ski engines for $3400 to $10 flush ends on ebay and have had 100% feedback on ebay for over 3 year straight. If I was a classic BS artist, I think someone out of over 5000 ratingsand 10,000s of thousand of transactions would have left a negative or even nuetral feedback. My only mistake on this was not looking at all the plugs but the 2 that I did pull looked fresh and unfired to my eye in a covered storage with them in engine compartment. I think it is pretty clear after Walt pulling them in the sunlight and having zoomed in photos, that was an error on me but I would have that same error again. Now lets go with your attack on me about being a BS artist.....why the heck would I have not changed the plugs when I have 50 plugs sitting right here? Would not a con man atleast change out the plugs or even take pics of how amazing the sparkplugs looked? The 2 circled, while not in bright perfect conditions, look like they could have been changed at some point but never ran in engines. Looking, again, in perfect lighting and zoomed in I do agree my assesment was wrong. And what the hell is the point other than obviously it was an error as any true con man like me would have changed the plugs, correct?[/QUOTE]
 

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Jon Gottschalk

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And to the now wild claim that I some how manipulated the price on auction, I guess you don't sell on ebay but ebay can very easily see that now. I would never risk my living to bid up an item yet alone one that is not mine. Pic attached of bidding and tell me if you still agree or a just set on slandering me becuase I am "outsider" on Jboaters due to not wanting to solicitate any sales and step on anyones toes on here from Bruce and other mods and have very rarely posted.
 

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Jon Gottschalk

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I think @Jon Gottschalk did nothing wrong and owes the buyer nothing.
Thanks and as I even told Walt after I would help him anyway I could after the purchase and even let him take the boat before it was paid for. Walt, do you care to confirm that fact? I am so hurt that anyone would think I would make up crap about old guy, etc. and I also was completely shocked when he showed up too. He had mentioned nothing about cancer until he showed up and started wincing leaning over and explained he had cancer battle over the winter.
 

swatski

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While I appreciate your perspective, I sell anything from brand new jet ski engines for $3400 to $10 flush ends on ebay and have had 100% feedback on ebay for over 3 year straight. If I was a classic BS artist, I think someone out of over 5000 ratingsand 10,000s of thousand of transactions would have left a negative or even nuetral feedback. My only mistake on this was not looking at all the plugs but the 2 that I did pull looked fresh and unfired to my eye in a covered storage with them in engine compartment. I think it is pretty clear after Walt pulling them in the sunlight and having zoomed in photos, that was an error on me but I would have that same error again. Now lets go with your attack on me about being a BS artist.....why the heck would I have not changed the plugs when I have 50 plugs sitting right here? Would not a con man atleast change out the plugs or even take pics of how amazing the sparkplugs looked? The 2 circled, while not in bright perfect conditions, look like they could have been changed at some point but never ran in engines. Looking, again, in perfect lighting and zoomed in I do agree my assesment was wrong. And what the hell is the point other than obviously it was an error as any true con man like me would have changed the plugs, correct?
I have better ways of spending my time than responding to you.
2 or 3??? Did you say 2 or did you say 3? I can read, BTW.
Did you really NOT notice the other issues that were missing from your Ebay description, which make this boat A WRECK, not a "project boat"?

Your ratings?
I'll tell you what I think about your ratings: a guy, @veedubtek, who I have come to trust and respect felt TAKEN by your tactics to the point he needed to vent in here. That indicates to me a negative rating. A strong negative rating.
And that's all I care about. The ebay is crawling with less than honest merchants. No, they have not fixed or got better with any of that, in my experience including case in point it has gotten worse. That is one of the many reasons I stick with this site for advice, as it is generally free of bs artists, in turn saving me my time - my most precious commodity.

Good luck with your future endeavors, good sir.

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bronze_10

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@veedubtek... U don't live that far from me... When u get started on this boat let me know... I'll swing down there for a day and help you pull the engines and put them back in when you are ready.... It will help me learn more about my boat in the process. Hell we may get a loaf of raleigh people to ride down and help... I'll be the dd! Lol
 
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veedubtek

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even let him take the boat before it was paid for. Walt, do you care to confirm that fact?
A bit misleading, honestly. Safer to say, before your bank 100% cleared the check?

Looking back at our messages, I had my bank mail the check 7/1 (bank check, via my bill pay - not a personal check). You texted and said received on 7/9, but couldn't deposit until the following day. On the 12th, you called your bank and they said "probably saturday or monday". I sent literal screenshots of my bank account showing the bank check and the money leaving my account on the 11th. You let the driver pick it up (when I requested) on the 13th. A fact I do/did appreciate, but let's not act like anyone in the world would have any speculation the money wasn't there at that point.

Information like "I only pulled 2 plugs, and in poor lighting, and only had 15 minutes to look at the boat" would've steered me in a different direction. If you read your own ad, Jon, do you not see suggestive text that contradicts what you've said here? Maybe you wrote everything the way you did assuming a buyer would want to inspect in person, as you said you would do yourself. But, I'd say your prospective market via eBay, isn't going to do that and take you at your word.

I posted this here to see if I was wrong in my thinking, I wanted to know. I'm not looking to drag this out in a battle of semantics or morals or by bashing/name calling. I also don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to look at this objectively from my point of view and find it hard to understand why I feel I was misled.
 

djetok

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As a Ebay seller, I would have charged the gentleman a fee for the transaction to protect my feedback. I have sold many vehicles on Ebay and always dug way deeper into the item than this seller did. I don't think the due diligence was done on this item at all. The seller has definately raised concern for me to business with him from this transaction. Sorry that this has happened for all those involved.
 

Jon Gottschalk

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Im going to leave it with this last comment from me and then if anyone needs to contact me regarding this thread PM or call me directly. (228)424-4829. All I can say is the money was not in my account until Monday and I don't know exactly the process with personal checks clearing from out of state banks other than bank said DO NOT let boat go until money has cleared as soon as Saturday or Monday, but could be longer. When I checked Thursday last minute it had not cleared when you called about it. You had mentioned a guy coming Friday to pick up at some point and I told you OK after a bit of hesitation on my part and told you about the military guy that screwed on a ckeck after hours for a $1200 ski years back and I was trusting you as you had trusted me for purchase. Just becuase it left your account doesn't mean the transfer was complete or in my account; if anyone does not think that was a bit of faith on my end, let me know if you would do the same for a relative stranger to me. All this mind you, while I completely misleading you.....makes zero sense.

Also, these dam spark plugs. I have a question......if I were trying to mislead you and saw the rusty spark plugs you see, why would I, or any other "CROOK" for that matter, not change the plugs to brand new plugs?? Just answer that for me to make me understand your perspective on being mislead. I saw 2 relatively new plugs that looked like than had been replaced after engine was not running....

As I told you on the phone before and after purchase, any parts you need (I would suspect heads at $400 after seeing the corrosion on plugs from waterbox and not proper winterization; does NOT look like boat ever sank) let me know and will get them to you at cost and then some. I was not, nor would I ever try to screw someone and jeopardize my livelihood or morals or sleep at night. Send me a pm or what ever as I told you before when you get into the engines (or pump at that point) to let me know what you found out. I truley was hoping when you shared this thread via text to me this morning it was a video of you out running......
 

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Wow...after reading the listing I agree....misrepresented the overall condition.

"SPARK PLUGS WERE LOOKED AT(3 TOTAL) AND LOOKED GOOD AND NEW; PERHAPS CHANGED RECENTLY.."
This is clearly a flat out lie! Lets just say for sake of argument that the prior owner changed 3 spark plugs randomly. What is the probability that the next person coming along would randomly chose 3 plugs to look at an chose the SAME 3 that were replaced? (I'm sure we have a statistician here that can give us that answer!)
for 3 plugs to be pull at random to look new and then the same 3 plugs to be pulled at random it carries a probability of 0.000381% ( 1/8 multiplied by 6 independent pulls , which is the same as raising 1/8 to the 6th power
for 2 plugs to be ................................................................................................................................... carries a probability of 0.024414%
for 1 plug to be ................................................................................................................................... carries a probability of 1.562500%


Full disclaimer, this makes a few assumption and the main one is that plugs were pulled at random. But we all know if anyone is being lazy they will pull which is closer to them instead of stretching back to get the last one. Hence, no all plugs are created equal ( aka caries a probability of 1/8)

@veedubtek I am feel a bit bad because had I not being lazy to help, I could have checked the boat before towing her away and avoid this thread all together.
 

swatski

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for 3 plugs to be pull at random to look new and then the same 3 plugs to be pulled at random it carries a probability of 0.000381% ( 1/8 multiplied by 6 independent pulls , which is the same as raising 1/8 to the 6th power
for 2 plugs to be ................................................................................................................................... carries a probability of 0.024414%
for 1 plug to be ................................................................................................................................... carries a probability of 1.562500%


Full disclaimer, this makes a few assumption and the main one is that plugs were pulled at random. But we all know if anyone is being lazy they will pull which is closer to them instead of stretching back to get the last one. Hence, no all plugs are created equal ( aka caries a probability of 1/8)
lol, strait out of computational logic handbook, bag-of-marbles approach.

@veedubtek I am feel a bit bad because had I not being lazy to help, I could have checked the boat before towing her away and avoid this thread all together.
Bad @Betik !

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After all the drama, speculation, confrontation, and general shenanigans of this thread.....

I sure hope we see a twin supercharged boat running 90mph with bikini clad women hanging on for dear life as the end result :D :D.......I'm rootin' for ya @veedubtek
 

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