My take on Fins

[Bennie]

Will try to get in the lake with them this weekend, but it might be 2 weeks when I am breaking them in at the ICW at North Myrtle Beach.

I do appreciate your feedback. Due to my personal and work schedule I probably won't be back on my boat till Labor Day weekend. So any review you can provide, especially since it will be first hand "versus" I will greatly appreciate.

Thank you sir.

 

[cameron.sprinkle]

I do appreciate your feedback. Due to my personal and work schedule I probably won't be back on my boat till Labor Day weekend. So any review you can provide, especially since it will be first hand "versus" I will greatly appreciate.

Thank you sir.

I will do my best to give a good review. If I remember, I will take pics and post them as well.

 

[Zizzou 192]

A big thank you is in order for everyone manufacturing, testing, and reviewing bolt on systems that improve the handling of these boats and skis.

Collectively there seems to be no less than thousands of hours invested in the optimization of bolt on rudders, skegs, and stern thrusters for jet boats.

I have yet to pilot a boat where an increase of control is unwelcome.

When boat manufacturers offer improvements with far less measurable results, they often come with a price of a new boat attached to them.

 

[swatski]

Thank you @swatski.
Boating in coastal waters I am constantly working against tides. Those get especially difficult in no-wake zones and extra difficult at docks.
Hence why I was looking at the LTs so that I could hope to not kiss the dock as much as I have... fingers crossed.

I like the more robust material of the Cobra product, as well as the additional tie-rod end running to my articulating keel. But as stated before at low speeds (where my problem lies) there is little difference between the products. And unless I am looking at it wrong aren't the JBP Thrust Vectors larger (in square footage)... providing more of a "keel" effect?

In a perfect world... We don't live there.
So, my take on this is the following (as far as I know):

For no wake:
either system will help. TVs (JBP) are double blades per nozzle and bigger (?) than AKs (Cobra) which are single. Cobra Ultimates are double and if those fit the new keeled boats - the Ultimates maybe be the best IMO (also spring loaded and many install options including popping up at speed).

At speed/on plane:
TVs are up and give no influence. Cobra fins rule. The AKs in my new 240 did not make nearly as dramatic a difference as the Ultimates did to my old 190, but the difference is awesome. Sharp, sharp turns, the 240 feels like it rides on rails.

Fangs/megas (?) - add "power steering" effect - which stabilizes the steering and makes it nicer, but the more important benefit (for me) is that those channel the reverse thrust and make it a bit stronger (including strait reverse).

Lateral Thrusters are said to be amazing in pushing the stern sideways, however LTs do NOT enhance the reverse (as in - driving strait back).

TVs are compatible with LTs, by design.

Cobra AKs (and maybe Ultimates?) are compatible with LTs but not with Fangs/megas (albeit @ttzz made them fit https://jetboaters.net/threads/cobra-vm-ak-lateral-thrusters-ready-to-go.17781/#post-312053)

That last setup (@ttzz's) maybe the best of all worlds...

--

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

As stated by @Schilljr
" First and foremost, Jeff is one of the nicest guys I've ever purchased anything from. He was so helpful on the phone with the ordering process and the installing process. Seriously, I can't believe he stayed on the phone the whole time I turned every bolt and tightened every nut."

Ok I will say it was an experience and we prevailed. I send out my home phone number with the instructions because I always want to insure a system is installed correctly and I understand most people are not mechanically inclined. I also understand that some people get anxious when dealing with mechanical things that they are totally unfamiliar with. Over the many years I have become pretty good at explaining things and diagnosing a problem over the phone. I agree that this was quite challenging. But I am glad that I was available because I believe he was way outside his comfort zone working on the boat.
Actually the magnum a k system is fairly easy to install http://cobrajetsteering.com/media/attachment/file/i/n/installakseries.pdf However he was also tackling the mega fang plus system at the same time.
So fortunately I have learned to tell people to START with the mega fangs setup first and do the steering after you have that installed.
To add to the difficulties the boat was practically on the ground as seen in the picture and he was trying to do the install holding a phone in one hand.
So like I said we prevailed.

 

[swatski]

@Bennie I totally forgot to mention one of the most important if not the most important features of AKs, on top of those

At speed/on plane:
TVs are up and give no influence. Cobra fins rule. The AKs in my new 240 did not make nearly as dramatic a difference as the Ultimates did to my old 190, but the difference is awesome. Sharp, sharp turns, the 240 feels like it rides on rails.

Which is the ability to steer the boat, at speed, with no thrust.
Saved my butt several times, like when you are trying to slow down AND avoid running into something. I would not want to be without it.

--

 

[Affinity]

I ordered Thust Vectors last week and am taking the Cobras off that came with my boat. Has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with the people behind the company.

Hey Trevor - can you elaborate? What was bad about cobra?
Do you still have the vectors on? Like them?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Trevor had the early bolt on steering when he purchased his boat they already were on it so he had no idea how the boat handles without any steering.
He removed them to try the thrust vectors and quickly decided to try some of my newer style regular Ultimate steering, this post was his comparison and decision. https://jetboaters.net/threads/thrust-vectors-or-cobra’s-that-is-the-question.19692/ .

Keep in mind I now make super steering and several model specific steering systems , I also make the viper and mega fangs and AK fangs etc . my systems are tempered aluminum and most are adjustable plus I have spring loaded systems all with a 30 day money back satisfaction guarantee.
you can visit the vendor section https://jetboaters.net/threads/basic-information-about-the-various-options-from-cobra-jet-steering-llc.16857/ or go to www.cobrajetsteering.com or cobra jet steering facebook page. I offer the most features , benefits and choices available because I blazed this trail 20 years ago

 

[Affinity]

Thanks Jeff, I’m sorry for all the questions. When my 2022 195s arrives, it will be my first boat. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row while I’m waiting.
why do you have so many different steering options? I don’t understand all the differences?

is hole shot or top speed affected at all by any of them?

do you recommend letting them rise at speed or locking them in the down position?

 

[biffdotorg]

Hey Trevor - can you elaborate? What was bad about cobra?
Do you still have the vectors on? Like them?

Three years of healing a dead thread. Here, let me peel that scab off for you!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Affinity
One size does not fit all Yamaha jet boats like it did years ago so as Yamaha keeps making a variety of boats to meet the boating needs of a variety of different boat users like water sport or fishing or pleasure boating etc .
I too will make patented steering to help the variety of boats work better to meet the different needs of the owners .

Now for your boat I basically make the super ultimate ak-19 or the ak-19 deluxe version. Keep in mind I make the only systems that work at all speeds and work at a variety of influence levels to accommodate the needs of different user and I base this on years of feedback and experience.
Also it is important to say that this is my baby I did this 20 years ago when I purchased a jet boat and refused to use it because it did not steer like I wanted it to.
I was so disappointed with it ,I decided to design a steering system for it and if it did not meet my criteria I too was going to do what many people have informed me over the years, SELL IT AND NOT CARE IF I LOST MONEY if the steering upgrade did not solve the problem.
Once I designed and installed the steering I smiled when I drove it and loved how it would outperform any prop boat in the handling department .
I have owned boats since I was 14 and I was 59 when I designed my first jet boat steering system.
I make the only aftermarket steering that will assist you with water sport activities as it increases the steering ability and fills in the voids.
for instance retrieving a downed skier or tuber etc as you try to get to them while slowing down off plane and turning and you loose ALL control of the boat and run them over.
You want to pull tubes but the boat is slow to turn and slinging them is difficult .
You want to hold steady with a wake board or keep control when pulling slalom skiers. You want to stay in control in wind waves and strong currents. And you want the admiral to drive the boat because if she doesn't like boating all is lost.

So for your boat I recommend the super ultimate AK-19 deluxe it is constructed of tempered aluminum it has a variety of adjustments so that you can choose the level of influence you feel meets your needs it is spring loaded however your boat has a keel and rudder and it is FIXED so guess what happens if you slam into a rock or oyster bed, etc. You guessed it the rudder breaks I actually have a customer in Miami who just said forget it after doing just that, now he uses my super ultimate AK 19 deluxe system and the keel and left the rudder off. The advice I will give everyone is do your research and buy your last system first .
And for super steering I only make that version of the fins now because , the boats jet nozzle is out of the water on plane, so all of the fin surface that is above the bottom of the nozzle is not being used when the boat is at plaining speed . only the amount that YOU choose to set below the nozzle will be doing any steering on plane, However when the boat slows down the entire fin is now in the water and providing influence so the boat is predictable and easy to steer in wind waves and current. As for the plaining surface on the deluxe versions they help to get the boat up on plane quicker, they smooth out the ride in chop by pushing down on the bow when a wave pushes up on it and they clean the wake up for water sport activities. If you don't think that the buy direct discount price of only $268.99 with free domestic priority mail shipping from the innovator of aftermarket steering is a good idea Then I would say think again Super ultimate Ak-19 deluxe system

 

[Affinity]

Three years of healing a dead thread. Here, let me peel that scab off for you!

Hey just trying to learn. Jeff sent me to this thread. Thanks for nothing though.
jeff has me covered - thanks Jeff.

 

[Affinity]

Affinity
One size does not fit all Yamaha jet boats like it did years ago so as Yamaha keeps making a variety of boats to meet the boating needs of a variety of different boat users like water sport or fishing or pleasure boating etc .
I too will make patented steering to help the variety of boats work better to meet the different needs of the owners .

Now for your boat I basically make the super ultimate ak-19 or the ak-19 deluxe version. Keep in mind I make the only systems that work at all speeds and work at a variety of influence levels to accommodate the needs of different user and I base this on years of feedback and experience.
Also it is important to say that this is my baby I did this 20 years ago when I purchased a jet boat and refused to use it because it did not steer like I wanted it to.
I was so disappointed with it ,I decided to design a steering system for it and if it did not meet my criteria I too was going to do what many people have informed me over the years, SELL IT AND NOT CARE IF I LOST MONEY if the steering upgrade did not solve the problem.
Once I designed and installed the steering I smiled when I drove it and loved how it would outperform any prop boat in the handling department .
I have owned boats since I was 14 and I was 59 when I designed my first jet boat steering system.
I make the only aftermarket steering that will assist you with water sport activities as it increases the steering ability and fills in the voids.
for instance retrieving a downed skier or tuber etc as you try to get to them while slowing down off plane and turning and you loose ALL control of the boat and run them over.
You want to pull tubes but the boat is slow to turn and slinging them is difficult .
You want to hold steady with a wake board or keep control when pulling slalom skiers. You want to stay in control in wind waves and strong currents. And you want the admiral to drive the boat because if she doesn't like boating all is lost.

So for your boat I recommend the super ultimate AK-19 deluxe it is constructed of tempered aluminum it has a variety of adjustments so that you can choose the level of influence you feel meets your needs it is spring loaded however your boat has a keel and rudder and it is FIXED so guess what happens if you slam into a rock or oyster bed, etc. You guessed it the rudder breaks I actually have a customer in Miami who just said forget it after doing just that, now he uses my super ultimate AK 19 deluxe system and the keel and left the rudder off. The advice I will give everyone is do your research and buy your last system first .
And for super steering I only make that version of the fins now because , the boats jet nozzle is out of the water on plane, so all of the fin surface that is above the bottom of the nozzle is not being used when the boat is at plaining speed . only the amount that YOU choose to set below the nozzle will be doing any steering on plane, However when the boat slows down the entire fin is now in the water and providing influence so the boat is predictable and easy to steer in wind waves and current. As for the plaining surface on the deluxe versions they help to get the boat up on plane quicker, they smooth out the ride in chop by pushing down on the bow when a wave pushes up on it and they clean the wake up for water sport activities. If you don't think that the buy direct discount price of only $268.99 with free domestic priority mail shipping from the innovator of aftermarket steering is a good idea Then I would say think again Super ultimate Ak-19 deluxe system View attachment 164808

Thanks Jeff - sounds like this is the one to go with. I’m seeing people talk about fangs? What are those?

also - with the Super Ultimate AK19 deluxe - will I just be using the Yamaha stock lateral chutes? Or do these help with lateral also?

thanks again.

 

[Trevor Shipman]

I need to amend my post. I had the OLD cobras on my boat and decided to put the Vectors on… I was not happy with the performance of the plastic vectors. I talked to Jeff and he sold me on the new setup. Many things can be said about Jeff, but at the end of the day no one is more passionate about his product and he’s available at the drop of a hat to answer any and all questions. He def stands behind his product and I personally prefer the performance of his fins.

 

[johhnyboat]

When I purchased my boat, it had the older model Cobra fins and Jeff helped me swap out some parts to make it the Super Magnum fins with the fangs that I already had. I also added the Lateral Thrusters to complete my set up. These are compatible with no adjustments needed.
Coming from a stern drive boat I didn't want to sacrifice the ability to steer and dock at low speeds and I will tell you that once you get the hang of operating with that set up it is really awesome.
I was at a crowded marina recently waiting to get into a transient slip with a ton of current and wind and I had the boat just sitting in place. I had a couple of very experienced boaters with me that day that own 40 footers and they asked me "how are you doing that? I would be drifting and have to re-maneuver to get back to the slip" I fibbed and said "experience" but really it was the fins and lateral thrusters doing all of the work.
For a lot of you that have the attitude that you don't need them and just need to learn how to drive the boat, your missing the point. In those particular conditions with strong current and high winds, the Yamaha boats "as is" don't have enough maneuverability to operate safely in those conditions.
Sorry if I am coming off as preachy but I really just dig my setup.

 

[Affinity]

When I purchased my boat, it had the older model Cobra fins and Jeff helped me swap out some parts to make it the Super Magnum fins with the fangs that I already had. I also added the Lateral Thrusters to complete my set up. These are compatible with no adjustments needed.
Coming from a stern drive boat I didn't want to sacrifice the ability to steer and dock at low speeds and I will tell you that once you get the hang of operating with that set up it is really awesome.
I was at a crowded marina recently waiting to get into a transient slip with a ton of current and wind and I had the boat just sitting in place. I had a couple of very experienced boaters with me that day that own 40 footers and they asked me "how are you doing that? I would be drifting and have to re-maneuver to get back to the slip" I fibbed and said "experience" but really it was the fins and lateral thrusters doing all of the work.
For a lot of you that have the attitude that you don't need them and just need to learn how to drive the boat, your missing the point. In those particular conditions with strong current and high winds, the Yamaha boats "as is" don't have enough maneuverability to operate safely in those conditions.
Sorry if I am coming off as preachy but I really just dig my setup.

Thanks. Very helpful. Looks like that’s the way to go. So just to be sure - you have super ultimate cobra fins with fangs, and jetboat lateral thrusters? Correct?
thanks a lot.

 

[johhnyboat]

Thanks. Very helpful. Looks like that’s the way to go. So just to be sure - you have super ultimate cobra fins with fangs, and jetboat lateral thrusters? Correct?
thanks a lot.

correct. Although, check with Jeff as what I have with twin engines may not be compatible with your boat and year.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Affinity

You have the latest version of the Yamaha nozzles that were designed to provide an angled reverse thrust to not only push the boat in reverse but also at a slight angle sideways without removing a lot of the reverse power as will occur with opposing lateral thrusts . Yamaha made 3 different nozzle designs and you have the latest one. So you really don't want to fool with the design as it will most likely come at a cost far more than just money and you won't need any fangs either just the super ultimate ak-19 deluxe steering system for single engine boats from model year 2019 to current models. See the picture below , note the shape of the fins the forward cut out and the rounded edges as well as the depth of the fins so as not to hit the ground or dig into the sand or increase the draft of the boat there is also a plaining surface between the fins and no cross bars under the plaining surface to create water spray nor water skied on the fins and they are adjustable as well as full time or part time your choice and the influence level is adjustable . Made of tempered aluminum . also here are the 3 different nozzle designs the first was made up to 2014 the second from 2015 through 2018 and the latest from 2019 to date

 

[Affinity]

Affinity

You have the latest version of the Yamaha nozzles that were designed to provide an angled reverse thrust to not only push the boat in reverse but also at a slight angle sideways without removing a lot of the reverse power as will occur with opposing lateral thrusts . Yamaha made 3 different nozzle designs and you have the latest one. So you really don't want to fool with the design as it will most likely come at a cost far more than just money and you won't need any fangs either just the super ultimate ak-19 deluxe steering system for single engine boats from model year 2019 to current models. See the picture below , note the shape of the fins the forward cut out and the rounded edges as well as the depth of the fins so as not to hit the ground or dig into the sand or increase the draft of the boat there is also a plaining surface between the fins and no cross bars under the plaining surface to create water spray nor water skied on the fins and they are adjustable as well as full time or part time your choice and the influence level is adjustable . Made of tempered aluminum . also here are the 3 different nozzle designs the first was made up to 2014 the second from 2015 through 2018 and the latest from 2019 to date

Perfect. I will be ordering once I get verification that Yamaha doesn’t cancel my order. I heard that has been happening. Easy for me to put on? Or should I give to dealer to install?
Thanks.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Perfect. I will be ordering once I get verification that Yamaha doesn’t cancel my order. I heard that has been happening. Easy for me to put on? Or should I give to dealer to install?
Thanks.

Very easy to do yourself.