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New Speed Control / Electronic Throttle Synch For Twins / Ridesteady by Hydrophase

swatski

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EDIT: if you are just checking this out - skip to page 4 post #72 to see a @Ridesteady install video.



It’s been a busy weekend. :D

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Thanks to @RiverRat's post here https://jetboaters.net/threads/hydrophase-ridesteady.12487/ about the new Ridesteady system for Yammies. I contacted Justin of Hydrophase, and was able to purchase what might be the first system tested in a Connext Yammie.

That thing is a BOMB. I will provide some details and video clips over the next couple of days. Unfortunately for me I’m usually boating alone this time of year, and that slows things down. I also have to weed through a bunch of crappy videos so I can post, hopefully, some informative ones.

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I must say, after spending a good part of the day today on the river testing that thing, I’m just completely blown away!

Imagine that: I was able to go for as long as I wanted "throttling" up and down -- holding GPS speed or RPM — by simply rotating a KNOB!!!!!


And here is the best part (for me):
I tested throttle synch function but deliberately bumping ONE throttle up or down (pushing it out-of-synch on purpose) and, what just blew my mind, the thing responds by correcting the differences! (electronically adjusting APS and RPMs - it does not move the throttles levers)
Again, not sure how well it will come out in my short videos, but the system is quite amazing.

[EDIT: check the *** comments in the next post, below]

I’m sure many of you feel the way I do — "single throttle" electronic control has been a holy grail in twin Yammies for a long time. I love to have two independent throttles, but synchronizing them by hand can be frustrating. I would pay a lot of money for that function alone and even considered getting an E-series boat for that reason. The Ridesteady, however, does a surprisingly awesome job electronically synchronizing the throttles while maintaining the constant GPS speed or RPMs.
Today was windy, choppy, and nasty - great time to test constant RPM cruising, and it was smooth. The native Yamaha cruise assist, with or without the Connext, has five up or down 200 RPM steps which is pretty restrictive. What is AWESOME about Ridesteady, the RPM control has a 10 RPM step and basically full range (I tested it all the way up to 7,700 RPM - 51mph) - and is smooth as silk.

The system has fantastic adjustment/controls abilities that can be used to provide either a softer ride vs a more exacting speed compliance - I tried some softer settings in “response”, “active speed”, and “overshoot” menus and was able to control the cruise - wish I had more time to play with it, it is definitely a bit of a learning curve.

The factory settings seem pretty aggressive. I wasn’t pulling any skiers/boarders today and did not have the time to systematically move through the adjustments, but even w/small adjustments I tried I was able to get a much smoother ride. I wish I studied the manual beforehand a bit more as I am certain those settings can be made exactly how one wants it, just takes some learning.

I was also able to confirm that the native "NO WAKE" and "CRUISE ASSIST" functions still work very well with the Ridesteady installed, no problems there.

Regarding the install itself, I followed the instructions/manual http://www.hydrophase.com/sites/default/files/Ridesteady_Installation_and_Users_Guide_Yamaha_v.1.0_compressed_0.pdf
It is pretty strait forward, albeit swapping some of those connectors can be a PIA - I ended up pulling one of the APS throttle controllers off of the bulkhead, not being able to dislodge a connector without braking it…

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To be continued…

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swatski

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Here is a short throttle synch demo:

Running at wakesurfing speeds, I first adjust the GPS speed and then, at about 26 sec mark I push the port throttle lever to increase the prot engine RPM by about 1,000. Note how the system immediately re-synchs the engines (without moving the throttle levers, which remain off-set)! ***

There is a limit to what the system can compensate, probably not much more than a 10-15% off-set. But that is plenty!

Here, going up and down through the three-step native "NO WAKE" cruise control with the Ridesteady OFF - no problems:
(You can see the "No wake" settings under the "MPH" at the bottom of the screen)


Here, going up and down through the five-step native "CRUISE ASSIST" cruise control with the Ridesteady OFF - no problems:
(You can see the "Cruise +/-" settings under the "MPH" at the bottom of the screen)


And finally - the torture test! (pushing the Ridesteady system to the max):

Ridesteady is ON, set for 7,770 RPM.
System tries to reach the 7,770 RPM and keeps asking for "MORE GAS"! Sorry, not more throttle left at WOT!
(7,700+ RPM Port and 7,600+ RPM Strbd, ~51 MPH)


That is pretty cool, if you ask me -- Ridesteady really has the full range!


*** In talking to Justin, I found out that I was doing the throttle synch demo kind of backwards.

Here is how he puts it (I love it):

{ I watched the engine sync video you posted – cool! It’s even more fun to bump the slave engine, as there will be less of a speed change. When you bump the master, the slave then syncs to it, which causes the speed of the boat to increase or decrease, which then requires the speed control to bring it back up/down to the set speed. If you just bump the slave (STBD, as default), only that one engine will be contributing to the speed disturbance, so it is quicker to converge back on the set speed. }

Uploading still more, check it out later...

Next up will be a video of the analog tachs when I bump the throttles. I will be easier to see the disturbance and the following sync on them rather than the digital display. That, and I will be shooting the manipulation/bumping of the slave engine RPM.
TBC...


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Crlos16

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I'm sold!! How much?
 

swatski

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I'm sold!! How much?
It's about $1,300 for the twins, depending on shipping and options. I opted out of air/water temp sensors, but needed the external display as in Connext boats there is no speedo to replace with the standard (round) Ridesteady display/gauge.
Justin is among the most responsive vendors I have ever interacted with.

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Mainah

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I like this method better than perfect pass. By using a ADC and DAC to measure and output exact voltages you get great resolution as opposed to a slighty varied output of a spring loaded potentiometer. The wiring harness pairing up is slick or else there would be a lot of cutting and splicing. I also like the rotary encoder for the human interface.

@ swatski do you think there is a way to flush mount the display somewhere? What does the back of it look like?
 

swatski

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I like this method better than perfect pass. By using a ADC and DAC to measure and output exact voltages you get great resolution as opposed to a slighty varied output of a spring loaded potentiometer. The wiring harness pairing up is slick or else there would be a lot of cutting and splicing. I also like the rotary encoder for the human interface.

@ swatski do you think there is a way to flush mount the display somewhere? What does the back of it look like?
I don't see why something like the PP-mount/mold for Connext boats manufactured by JetBoatPilot wouldn't work for a standard (round) display Ridesteady gauge.
The back of the "external display" (the one I have) is just flat with a cable coming out in the corner, I will try to find a pic.
At least for now, mine is mounted using a RAM plate and VHB tape provided, the other RAM plate is attached with VHB to the edge of the dash insert. I let it cure overnight and was surprised it held up to my rides, so far.

EDIT: @Mainah I was able to sneak the cable to the external display and GPS antenna in between the dash parts, without cutting ANY holes or grinding anything. I think I may actually leave it in that location as it is very easy to reach, may just need to better support it w/ either screws or epoxy.
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EDIT 2: Here is the Jetboatpilot's PerfectPass housing, he offers for PP on his site but should work with any standard gauge.

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captras

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This looks really great. ...seems ridiculous that Yamaha has an OEM GPS based speed control on the limited SE that so far is nothing but problems!
 

FloJet

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Oooo Look at you @swatski. Very nice job again. Can't wait for the videos. Def a mod I will be looking into later this year.
 

Scottintexas

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Thanks, added to the FAQ under "electronics / speed control" so keep updating as needed,
 

buckbuck

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@swatski How do you feel about yourself being such a bad influence on so many peoples pocketbooks?
 

swatski

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I'm posting some more video clips, above (post#2).

Since I plan on using the Ridesteady pretty much the same way I would use a car cruise control - basically all the time when I'm just cruising / going somewhere, I asked Justin about how to best change the system settings if I want to have the best cruise with best fuel economy. Here are some of his comments, I think these are very useful:

{ The “primary” setting is “response”. “Active speed” and “overshoot” are only used in the initial stages. Response is the parameter that determines how aggressive the speed control is both during, but primarily after the system engages.

To find what settings work best for you, my recommendation would be to start with the default settings. Yes, they were a bit aggressive on your first day, but choppy water may have been contributing to that. I would start off by not worrying too much about the initial ramp up (whose corresponding settings are “active speed” and “overshoot”) unless it’s just too aggressive (then dial “overshoot” down). Focus on how the ride is after the set speed has been reached. This will be your “response” parameter. After you’ve dialed that in, then focus on getting the initial ramp up where you like it (i.e. “active speed” and “overshoot”).

Regarding cruising fuel efficiency, RPM is going to be your best bet. It’s smooth, and keeps the engines at the same speed, so it likely uses less gas than GPS mode which is constantly adjusting the engine speed.

For a heavier boat (i.e. with ballast, people, etc.), you’d likely want to increase the “response” parameter, and perhaps the “overshoot” parameter as well (though this is partly determined by how aggressive you are in throttling up to speed). For a lighter boat, the opposite would apply. }

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Mainah

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@swatski thanks for all of the photos. It looks like you have some wires running against bare fiberglass edges (the oval cutout for the steering cables). I recommend trimming the cutout with that vinyl edge stuff they make for it or putting those wires in a conduit. Vibration over time could do a number on the casing against tge bare fiberglass edge. Pinching wires can also be bad (not sure if you did that running through the dash). A small grommeted hole may not be a bad thing to ensure the ridesteady display works down the road.

I am so jealous that you are getting to work on your boat right now. I can't wait till the weather breaks so I can de-winterize and get to work on some mods. This will be one of them as seeing the wiring diagram and instructions for this did make me pull my perfect pass commitment days before the end of the group buy.
 

swatski

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@swatski thanks for all of the photos. It looks like you have some wires running against bare fiberglass edges (the oval cutout for the steering cables). I recommend trimming the cutout with that vinyl edge stuff they make for it or putting those wires in a conduit. Vibration over time could do a number on the casing against tge bare fiberglass edge. Pinching wires can also be bad (not sure if you did that running through the dash). A small grommeted hole may not be a bad thing to ensure the ridesteady display works down the road.

I am so jealous that you are getting to work on your boat right now. I can't wait till the weather breaks so I can de-winterize and get to work on some mods. This will be one of them as seeing the wiring diagram and instructions for this did make me pull my perfect pass commitment days before the end of the group buy.
Good pointers, @Mainah. I have a lot of electric cleaning up to do before the season, just bracing myself.

I still have one wire that needs to be spliced into Nav lights 12V+. If there is a wire in the dash though, it would be easier. I ran out of time to figure that out with my multimeter, but the simplest solution is to just run it from a Nav light. Do you have a Connext wiring diagram?
That (green) wire in the Ridesteady power cable just dims the display, BTW. So, I got an okay from Justin to run without it, for now, LOL.

Regarding the PP, well, same here.

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Mainah

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Pin 17 on the large spu connector should have a gray blue wire labeled anchor lt which is the lead to your tower nav light. That is pretty far away from where you have the brains mounted so you may try are find the gray green wire (i think) that runs up to the bow nav light from SPU small connecter pin 2 (bclt+) as it is likely routed right past the helm somewhere on its way to the bow. There won't be any other wires behind the helm for you to tap into for this because all of the lights are controlled by Connext through the SPU.
 
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swatski

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Pin 17 on the large cpu connect should have a gray blue wire labeled anchor lt which is the lead to your tower nav light. That is pretty far away from where you have the brains mounted so you may try are find the gray green wire (i think) that runs up to the bow nav light from SPU small connecter pin 2 (bclt+) as it is likely routed right past the helm somewhere on its way to the bow. There won't be any other wires behind the helm for you to tap into for this because all of the lights are controlled by Connext through the SPU.
I'll be darned, @Mainah. Thank you, this is just great info from you, again!
Also makes me feel slightly less dumb, LOL.

I think I will just run it from the bow nav light, it should be fool proof that way, LOL.

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jcyamaharider

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I am digging this new system for the electronic boats!!! Keep up the good work @swatski !
 

swatski

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I just realized something, pretty crazy:

None of the HO MR-1s (as in all pre-2010 230s and 212s) have the APS, Yamaha installed APS (accelerator position sensor assembly) in all 210s' non-HO MR-1s, all the way back to 2006. Which means that all those 21ft (MY 2006-2009 210) and all 1.8l boats can use the servomotor-less Ridesteady system. Basically, an instant upgrade to E-throttles, kind of.

In other words:
If you have a MY 2006-2009 SX/AR210 or any 1.8l Yamaha boat -- you can get yourself a set of aftermarket fly-by-wire throttle controllers with an electronic twin engine synch /single throttle functionality -- an instant upgrade to E-series-like system.

IMHO it is actually nicer than the Connext touch screen (or joystick). Certainly beats toggling between the screens. The way I have it set up right now, with the Ridesteady external display mounted like in my pics (above), the KNOB is right there and in-reach, just above the throttle levers.

Surprisingly, all the 230/232 and 212 HO MR-1 boats lack the APS.

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Spooling

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This product looks really cool! Very slick in that it is a replacement for the accelerator position sensor. This also makes it a bit frightening as well however.... I wonder what sort of fail safes are built into the system?
 

swatski

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This product looks really cool! Very slick in that it is a replacement for the accelerator position sensor. This also makes it a bit frightening as well however.... I wonder what sort of fail safes are built into the system?
Yes, I agree it is very slick! I am very very impressed. It basically circumnavigates throttle cables and the APS, but the throttle action still supersedes the system settings.
I think it is actually safer than both old and new (E-style) throttles. Just like a car cruise control, the system can be disabled by pushing the OFF/ON button or by pulling back the throttles. Either way works 100%.
My regular cable throttles' response drives me crazy some days, particularly when the weather is not that great. It is tough to set the exact speed and synch the engines at the same time.
I do not have any experience with E-throttles, but apparently those are very smooth, maybe too smooth and can be inadvertently be pulled or pushed beyond what may be intended. That is also why the E-series boats have the reverse disabled at speed, the throttles are just too easy to trip. (Some blame Yamaha lawyers, but that is a different conversation)

Here is a clip of cruising at constant RPM of 5,000. Going down the river, then turning up stream. Note how smooth the engines are working (and in complete synch!). I played with this for half a day only so far, but am pretty sure this is going to be favorite mode for cruising. Making small or large adjustments on the fly, this is absolute best for good fuel economy, smoothest ride, and the wives will LOVE it.


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