Subwoofer(s)

[swatski]

If I had all the space under the rear seats I would most likely go the @Drift Away way, I can not think of anything more simple and "no nonsense" that having two big subs mounted in perfectly sized enclosures with large vents opening strait out into the cockpit! That has got to hit super hard!

But in my case, I'm having a wake surf ballast installed there, so it is not an option.
I'm experimenting with a setup I have not seen here before, at least not exactly:
(post #47)
https://jetboaters.net/threads/2016-ar240-budget-stereo-upgrade.7719/page-3
I will know this weekend if it is a success - I have a general idea what a good sub SHOULD sound like, w/ the large helm door open/closed in lieu of venting. I am cautiously optimistic, as the space behind the helm (and along pseudo-double hull) in these boats is one big ugly resonator box - so filling it in with bass could possibly work really well.
Or not.


EDIT: I updated the other post, very encouraging initial results (post #49):
https://jetboaters.net/threads/2016-ar240-budget-stereo-upgrade.7719/page-3

--

 

[Jaylex]

I also had a similar set up as what @DCB-270 posted with his speakers in the large storage area.

Was running a ported 15" sub and it absolutely hits HARD, the only downside is needing to keep the door open to get maximum response. It gave me great results and since I don't want to have to prop the door open I'm stuggling to find other options that will yield similar results.

I'm moving into a new AR240 and I might still consider putting my sub in the large storage area, maybe using the bottom portion as the basis of a box and build in either 1 or 2 subs ported and allow them to vent into the boat somehow. The other option I'm looking at is a single 12" ported sub under one of the seats and properly vented.

 

[David Analog]

When you look at the properties of large compartments, as in storage, helm and seating consoles, you are indeed looking at large resonant cavities that share all the implied characteristics....such as non-linear filtering, attenuation, latency, and more. This damages sound quality. But here's the conflict and contrast. Direct-radiation, which completely removes the compartment from the equation, sounds best. The flipside is if one 10-inch IB sub will be enough output. If not, then you accept the SQ reduction and place a much larger subwoofer, in a big box, inside a console, and drive it with much more power than an IB 10" can withstand. You can then vent the compartment with an aperture/grill of enough surface area to provide enough acoustic transparency to mitigate some of the negative compartment impact.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Question, is it worth it to put a sub under the seats or in the compartment in from to of the passenger bench on a ar192? I have a sub and amp I don't care too much about and was going to toss it in as I hate not having a full range of sound. If it's decent I'll keep it and upgrade it or if it's not I'll just jump into something else.

 

[Jaylex]

I was on a boat this past weekend at my dealer and he had all WS stuff, with a free air sub, either WS or Polk, cant recall and it was Meh at best, to loud and too little bass. I cant see how fee air anything can beat a properly vented sub.

@David Analog can you not leverage the large cavities to get a deeper sound out of a ported box.

I have a AR240 and I'm trying to figure out if I should put my sub in that large helm compartment or under one of the seats in a ported box. If I put it in the helm I WILL need a vent, as I learned in my last setup I had to keep the door open most of the time, but it hit hard like I wanted. The other option is to put it under one of the cabin seats in a ported box, which would yield better results?

 

[d_coyne1984]

Question, is it worth it to put a sub under the seats or in the compartment in from to of the passenger bench on a ar192? I have a sub and amp I don't care too much about and was going to toss it in as I hate not having a full range of sound. If it's decent I'll keep it and upgrade it or if it's not I'll just jump into something else.

So I just dealt with this myself last season on my 192. I am not a huge fan of IB subs and then they cost more, so I thought what the hell to throwing a 10" small boxed sub under the rear seat. I went with a Polk db 10" because the Polks like small air spaces and I like the sound quality of the db's for the cheap price point. The box I built for it was about 12"w x 12"h x 10"d. I did not like the sound at all. I definitely noticed the increased bass, but the low-lows, and the high-lows didn't carry through very cleanly, and didn't hear anything without turning it up while under way, but then needed to turn it down as soon as I stopped, which is really annoying during the constant stopping and starting of water sports.

Plan B was buying a truck box on Amazon and putting it under the bench seat (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013MYXD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I could not be happier with the sound quality now. I would still like to add a pair of db 651'a to the cockpit for better sound dispersion, but other than that, I am very happy. Now that I know I like it, I need to strip the carpet off the box and epoxy it so the fiberboard doesn't disintegrate, but if you can stand loosing a little space under the bench, there is no better sound option than a sealed box for a sub and a punchy 10" sounds great! Sorry I don't have any pictures of it.

 

[4wheeldeal]

So I just dealt with this myself last season on my 192. I am not a huge fan of IB subs and then they cost more, so I thought what the hell to throwing a 10" small boxed sub under the rear seat. I went with a Polk db 10" because the Polks like small air spaces and I like the sound quality of the db's for the cheap price point. The box I built for it was about 12"w x 12"h x 10"d. I did not like the sound at all. I definitely noticed the increased bass, but the low-lows, and the high-lows didn't carry through very cleanly, and didn't hear anything without turning it up while under way, but then needed to turn it down as soon as I stopped, which is really annoying during the constant stopping and starting of water sports.

Plan B was buying a truck box on Amazon and putting it under the bench seat (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013MYXD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I could not be happier with the sound quality now. I would still like to add a pair of db 651'a to the cockpit for better sound dispersion, but other than that, I am very happy. Now that I know I like it, I need to strip the carpet off the box and epoxy it so the fiberboard doesn't disintegrate, but if you can stand loosing a little space under the bench, there is no better sound option than a sealed box for a sub and a punchy 10" sounds great! Sorry I don't have any pictures of it.

Great info thanks, did you strap the box down? I was thinking under the seat is a great option as I don't think I would use that location for anything but shoes.

 

[d_coyne1984]

Great info thanks, did you strap the box down? I was thinking under the seat is a great option as I don't think I would use that location for anything but shoes.

I did not strap it down. I usually keep the carpet in the boat and it sticks to that just fine without sliding. Once I remover the carpet from the box though, I will need to put some rubber underneath so it doesn't slide. It's a tight fit with the grill on it. To get it under I had to lift the bench support bar up so that it cleared it to get under. It only needed a half inch or so though. I didn't need to remove the seat or anything like that.

 

[David Analog]

So I just dealt with this myself last season on my 192. I am not a huge fan of IB subs and then they cost more, so I thought what the hell to throwing a 10" small boxed sub under the rear seat. I went with a Polk db 10" because the Polks like small air spaces and I like the sound quality of the db's for the cheap price point. The box I built for it was about 12"w x 12"h x 10"d. I did not like the sound at all. I definitely noticed the increased bass, but the low-lows, and the high-lows didn't carry through very cleanly, and didn't hear anything without turning it up while under way, but then needed to turn it down as soon as I stopped, which is really annoying during the constant stopping and starting of water sports.

Plan B was buying a truck box on Amazon and putting it under the bench seat (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013MYXD4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I could not be happier with the sound quality now. I would still like to add a pair of db 651'a to the cockpit for better sound dispersion, but other than that, I am very happy. Now that I know I like it, I need to strip the carpet off the box and epoxy it so the fiberboard doesn't disintegrate, but if you can stand loosing a little space under the bench, there is no better sound option than a sealed box for a sub and a punchy 10" sounds great! Sorry I don't have any pictures of it.

Your first attempt at an enclosure (assuming it was using .75" stock) was a net internal volume (after driver displacement) of barely over 0.5 cu.ft. WAY TOO SMALL. Polk Audio enclosure recommendations are usually worthless information.

 

[d_coyne1984]

Your first attempt at an enclosure (assuming it was using .75" stock) was a net internal volume (after driver displacement) of barely over 0.5 cu.ft. WAY TOO SMALL. Polk Audio enclosure recommendations are usually worthless information.

I was wrong on my measurements. 12 x 12 x 10 was my original plan but I wasn't counting interior volume. I think I ended up building it to 14 x 14 x 10, but regardless, I am going to have to respectfully dissagree. I tend to take the engineers advise like the word of god because they are far smarter in their field than I. Polk subs have a very low Q which means you will get the best and flattest frequency response curve in a small enclosure. That is not true for all subs obviously or the IB JL's that a lot of people love would not exist. The low Q of the db (and MM too I think) Polk subs is also the reason why they should never be used in an IB setup. The truck box I currently have the sub in is about .8 cu ft and I think it sounds really good, especially being for a largely open air environment, which is hard to accomplish. It's very tight and punch. If you like big boomy bass, putting these subs in a larger enclosure would give you that desired effect. I did that with an old Polk Momo I had and it was loud, and deep, but for certain music like rock, I thought it got to be a little muddy and have since turned to small enclosures for my subs.

 

[David Analog]

I was wrong on my measurements. 12 x 12 x 10 was my original plan but I wasn't counting interior volume. I think I ended up building it to 14 x 14 x 10, but regardless, I am going to have to respectfully dissagree. I tend to take the engineers advise like the word of god because they are far smarter in their field than I. Polk subs have a very low Q which means you will get the best and flattest frequency response curve in a small enclosure. That is not true for all subs obviously or the IB JL's that a lot of people love would not exist. The low Q of the db (and MM too I think) Polk subs is also the reason why they should never be used in an IB setup. The truck box I currently have the sub in is about .8 cu ft and I think it sounds really good, especially being for a largely open air environment, which is hard to accomplish. It's very tight and punch. If you like big boomy bass, putting these subs in a larger enclosure would give you that desired effect. I did that with an old Polk Momo I had and it was loud, and deep, but for certain music like rock, I thought it got to be a little muddy and have since turned to small enclosures for my subs.

Polk Audio engineers??? Good luck with that. Try calling that Polk Audio toll-free technical hotline. You won't find a single domestic acoustic engineer from a brand that is owned by a car alarm company. A recommended .88 sealed enclosure for a dB1240 sub? That's really a joke. Get past the Qts. The Thiele/Small parameters suggest a very different sealed enclosure to reach the target 'system' Qtc. First hand experience also proves the enclosure recommendations are more often wrong than right.
Polk Audio car amplifiers? Just an off-the-shelf platform shared by numerous brands, none of which have anything to do with electronic engineering....just importing & marketing companies....just brands.
Now, that doesn't mean I don't like the Polk Audio dB or MM series products. They're often a very good value for the price and can perform well if you know what to do with them. But I've got to respectfully disagree with the engineers if you can find one.

 

[VONCE]

Wanted to post a follow-up on this. My little cheap-o 8 inch subs sound decent with all different flavors of music. One is on the starboard side under the seat as far towards the rear as I could get it, the other is under the port side front bow seat towards the back against the helm. Don't get me wrong, it could be much deeper and louder with bigger and better components, but this is working out for me and I'm satisfied with the bass. And if for some reason they die or get blown, I won't lose much sleep due to the amount of money I have invested (or lack thereof). Also, in a way, I didn't lose much storage space because they are tucked so far back under the seats and the boxes are relatively small. I'm also running two Exile XM-9 tower speakers off the same 4 channel class A/B amp. Each speaker is getting about 150 watts (RMS). I know those Exiles can handle (and probably demand) more juice, so I do see an amp upgrade in the near future. However, one thing I wanted when planning my sound system was to be able to run it with only one Optima battery in the boat. We typically sit in the cove for ~4 hours during an outing. So far, so good. No dead battery (even with the A/B amp!). I do have two batteries in the boat (both blue tops), but I left the second disconnected for these initial testing purposes. I'm satisfied, and quite honestly surprised with the performance of this setup for the time being. It was plenty loud for the cove, and it's sufficient while underway. Additionally, other than the Exiles, most of the components were very affordable. Which is just what I needed after buying the SeaDek, installing the ballast system, reupholstering the back seats, and re-doing the switches!

 

[USN SCPO RET]

Decided to have tower speakers installed.

Sub will have a custom box built with a custom port grille. It will go under the port side rear seat cushion and vented to the side.

WETSOUNDS REV 8 WITH FIXED CLAMP

WETSD6 WETSOUNDS SD6 AMPLIFIER
WETREVO 10HP WETSOUNDS REV 10HP

 

[bigblank69]

I almost went a similar path as @DCB-270 originally I was going to use a Orion HCCA 5000.1d amp but I couldn't find any marine rated speakers that could handle it and was nervous to use car speakers and a amp that expensive that wasn't marine rated. Don't get me wrong many people have great success with car audio on boats but living near the coast corrosion was a concern. My little JL 10 running on a JL MXH-300 I'm sure sounds nothing like @DCB-270 sound system. Man that has to thump!

I think beyond the corrosion issues, I don't think the electrical system of a boat could handle the 5000.1D, I have a XTR1500.1D in my truck... Orion amps are beasts!

 

[robert843]

I think beyond the corrosion issues, I don't think the electrical system of a boat could handle the 5000.1D, I have a XTR1500.1D in my truck... Orion amps are beasts!

With a dedicated battery to that amp and a charger hooked up every time the boat was out of the water it would probably be fine but only for a few hours use at a time. The 5000.1d is an insane amp I love the Orion amps they are crazy.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Well got the box built, tuned to 32 hz, sundown audio e8v5. Setup to 1ohm 600 watts RMS. Wow it hit so hard that I need to fix a bunch of vibration. The wake tower is vibrating. It out performs my 12inch in my jeep and my old JL 10 I use to have too. I put it in the jeep first and it was crazy. Biggest issue is the seat vibration, it could be annoying to some. Maybe I'll see if my wife likes it lol. I ran out of wires to mount the amp under the pass compartment so once I get some more wires I'll try it in different locations. Also need to paint the box, was going to use something like rocker gaurd or box liner. Not sure yet. It won't stay in the boat for now being just MDF.

 

[Tad Steinberg]

Just to tag along to this thread. I also agree the subs vented to the atmosphere do sound better than enclosed behind a door somewhere. One thing we have to contend with as well.
I made a custom ported box behind the helm with one XTR Pro Orion 12". For power, I'm trying something a bit different. I'm running on a Powerbass UTV (marine rated) amp at 1 ohm mono, roughly 600w.

Amps and Sub

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

12" ported Orion XTR Pro 12. built into the area - custom fabricated

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

12" ported Orion XTR Pro 12. built into the area - custom fabricated

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

Distribution BLocks

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

Helm lighting`

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

 

[4wheeldeal]

Just to tag along to this thread. I also agree the subs vented to the atmosphere do sound better than enclosed behind a door somewhere. One thing we have to contend with as well.
I made a custom ported box behind the helm with one XTR Pro Orion 12". For power, I'm trying something a bit different. I'm running on a Powerbass UTV (marine rated) amp at 1 ohm mono, roughly 600w.

Amps and Sub

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

12" ported Orion XTR Pro 12. built into the area - custom fabricated

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

12" ported Orion XTR Pro 12. built into the area - custom fabricated

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

Distribution BLocks

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

Helm lighting`

• Tad Steinberg
• Apr 29, 2017

Clean, you have a door I'm guessing, mines a ar192 no door but could be put in.

 

[Jebinok]

Wow Im totally lost, I have a jl ib 10 and was going to add another just like it right beside it. am i going to mess up? Also I was in @DCB-270 boat this last weekend, those 2 12" subs almost will suck the air out of your lungs

 

[PEARCE]

@DCB-270 's system kicks ass! It reminds me of being in my friends car in high school with 2 12's in the back of his Honda CRX and being so load it shattered his back window. He was running Orion subs and amps too.

I have a 10" Polk sub in a ported box under one of my rear benchs with it vented to the outside. I think it sounds good and shakes the boat just fine. When we're anchored out I sometimes remove the seat cushion allow the sound to radiate a little more.