Surfing a 2017 ar240

[Kolban]

So I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to surf behind my ar240. I was trying to parse together the information from other posts, but there is a lot to look through and I wasn't making much head way.
I know I need ballast, but how much? Can I get by with just ballast? We have never surfed before, just wakeboarding. Best placement?

Also, will wake shapers work, like Swell, Mission etc.? Or is my only option the wake wedge by Gantlin? I would prefer not to spend that much though. As least not until I get into the sport more.
Headed to lake Powell next Saturday for a week and would like to have a set up before then!

 

[Scuba_ref]

Wake shapers don't really work with the twin engine boats. I tried the mission one fairly extensively when it first came out.

 

[swatski]

So I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to surf behind my ar240. I was trying to parse together the information from other posts, but there is a lot to look through and I wasn't making much head way.
I know I need ballast, but how much? Can I get by with just ballast? We have never surfed before, just wakeboarding. Best placement?

Also, will wake shapers work, like Swell, Mission etc.? Or is my only option the wake wedge by Gantlin? I would prefer not to spend that much though. As least not until I get into the sport more.
Headed to lake Powell next Saturday for a week and would like to have a set up before then!

You will need ballast, and something to beat the white wash jet stream down.
For ballast, at least 1,000-1,500lbs swim deck and surf side rear seat. Of course built-in is nicer but a lot of work and $$$.
Don;t bother with any of those "shapers", if you ask me.
Wake wedge works. The only DIY substitute that works okay would be a "flap"
https://jetboaters.net/threads/surf-setup-2015-242ls.12389/page-2#post-214493
https://jetboaters.net/threads/surf-setup-2015-242ls.12389/page-8#post-266736
https://jetboaters.net/threads/ready-to-go-ropeless.13811/#post-266731

--

 

[0627Devildog]

Me surfing the wave on my '14 AR240. . . .

To make this wave you will need:

GantlinProducts WakeWedge
800 lbs rear swim deck (port side)
750 lbs under port rear seat
(Dual group 27 batteries under port seat or equivalent weight)
400 lbs in ski locker
400 lbs starboard rear seat
3/4 - Full tank of gas (or equivalent ballast)
200 lbs people ballast

 

[swatski]

Forgot about a pic!
Here is my wife surfing behind our 2016 AR240, wake wedge, ballast distribution similar to @0627Devildog


--

 

[Kolban]

@swatski and @0627Devildog I have been reading a lot about the flap and wake wedge to control the wash, but is it possible to surf with the boat as is with just ballast? Or is the wash just too much? We have never wakesurfed before, so as beginners are we going to be ok without it, at least in the beginning? I plan on picking ballast bags up either tomorrow at the local shop, if they have what I need at a good price, or ordering online with the possibility of getting the custom swim deck bag from @jcyamaharider. I know I'm cutting it really close with getting set up before our trip, but I just talked the wife into buying the surf gear and we will be living on the water for 7 days. So, ample opportunity to learn and have fun and do something besides wakeboard.

 

[swatski]

@swatski and @0627Devildog I have been reading a lot about the flap and wake wedge to control the wash, but is it possible to surf with the boat as is with just ballast? Or is the wash just too much? We have never wakesurfed before, so as beginners are we going to be ok without it, at least in the beginning? I plan on picking ballast bags up either tomorrow at the local shop, if they have what I need at a good price, or ordering online with the possibility of getting the custom swim deck bag from @jcyamaharider. I know I'm cutting it really close with getting set up before our trip, but I just talked the wife into buying the surf gear and we will be living on the water for 7 days. So, ample opportunity to learn and have fun and do something besides wakeboard.

Some kind of a flap (or THE Wedge) is necessary I'm afraid...
The only boat we know of throwing a decent wake without a wedge of any kind is @bobbie's 212X, and we think there is something about that boat, or local water, that is different.

The Yamahas have many advantages and are extremely versatile, but they are just not surf-ready from factory, and it takes some time and trail and error to set them up for wake surfing.

--

 

[0627Devildog]

If memory serves there were a few folks that were able to sink the boat enough (3k in ballast) to surf without a wedge but it still required a constant turn so the jet didn't wash out the wave.

Only way to straight line surf to date on an AR240 is the wedge + ballast as far as I have found.

 

[jcyamahariders wife]

You can surf with just ballast turn in circles to help clean up the jet wash that's how I learned and it was a blast. The fun is learning and watching others try as well ! Heck you will be at Lake Powell have a blast ! Worry about the fine tuning details when you get back after you gave it a try. When you catch the surfing bug that's when you know what you want to do to make it happen. Have a great trip !

 

[swatski]

You can surf with just ballast turn in circles to help clean up the jet wash that's how I learned and it was a blast. The fun is learning and watching others try as well ! Heck you will be at Lake Powell have a blast ! Worry about the fine tuning details when you get back after you gave it a try. When you catch the surfing bug that's when you know what you want to do to make it happen. Have a great trip !

I LOVE the response! I agree.
But - I wonder if that maybe more true for the 230 hulls that had nicer, flatter stern and just better symmetry for throwing a good wake? I just don't the OP to be disappointed, I find building a surfable wave in my 240 to be a bit of "labor of love" kind of endeavor .

--

 

[J-RAD]

I went 2 seasons with just ballast on my '16 AR240. 500lbs under each rear seat and 800 in the ski locker (...or something like that?) There are things you can do to fudge it just enough to surf ropeless. However it's barely adequate in most cases, with a messy wave and a small pocket.

It's always a good time though, even with a rope in your hand... It will leave you wanting more however. I was even able to ride with my kid ropeless for a few seconds. That's a good time!

Here's I was able to beat digital it in.

1. Get a fast board
2. You need to do everything possible to list the boat surf side.

• Fill surf side ballast
• Seat everyone on the same side
• Perform a gradual turn surf side

3. Clean up the wave by backing off the throttle and compensating with the other to maintain speed.

4. Pick the right speed. 10 ish mph is around where you'll need to be.

5. Sounds like this Surf Pointe business is just a simple toe in of the jets. That might help...

Here's me and the kid busy prior to dropping the rope-

Edit: That's not me doing with the kid. That's me myself and I. Had a decent wake that day thanks to the extra bodies on board.

Here's me and the kid:
​

 

[jcyamahariders wife]

I agree @swatski the 240 is a beast compared to the 230 & 210's really can rock it. I learned on Mark's 210 back when we had our 18ft yammie!

To be honest we spent all week at table rock and surfed most of the time under 2200 lbs with the wedge. We just filled the transom bag full(870) and put 60% in ski locker. We just fine tuned with a little here and there with our internal ballast and most time we just put both our girls up in the bow. It was the easiest surf setup ever.

 

[swatski]

I went 2 seasons with just ballast on my '16 AR240. 500lbs under each rear seat and 800 in the ski locker (...or something like that?) There are things you can do to fudge it just enough to surf ropeless. However it's barely adequate in most cases, with a messy wave and a small pocket.
View attachment 76829
It's always a good time though, even with a rope in your hand... It will leave you wanting more however. I was even able to ride with my kid ropeless for a few seconds. That's a good time!

Here's I was able to beat digital it in.

1. Get a fast board
2. You need to do everything possible to list the boat surf side.

• Fill surf side ballast
• Seat everyone on the same side
• Perform a gradual turn surf side

3. Clean up the wave by backing off the throttle and compensating with the other to maintain speed.

4. Pick the right speed. 10 ish mph is around where you'll need to be.

5. Sounds like this Surf Pointe business is just a simple toe in of the jets. That might help...

Here's me and the kid busy prior to dropping the rope-

Edit: That's not me doing with the kid. That's me myself and I. Had a decent wake that day thanks to the extra bodies on board.

Here's me and the kid:
View attachment 76838​

@Kolban There you go! I stand corrected!

@jcyamahariders wife Great tips, much appreciated! I told Kate about your trick w/filling the swim deck bag, she loved it.

--

 

[0627Devildog]

@jcyamahariders wife Great tips, much appreciated! I told Kate about your trick w/filling the swim deck bag, she loved it.

--[/QUOTE]

What trick? Filling mine for the first time Wed. . . .

 

[jcyamahariders wife]

I will upload the video to utube tonight when I get home. Fill the while bag with air then tie your ropes on bag. Start filling with water and open the vent slightly. Jerry nailed it when he thought of that. No more struggling with he bag.

 

[scokill]

If memory serves there were a few folks that were able to sink the boat enough (3k in ballast) to surf without a wedge but it still required a constant turn so the jet didn't wash out the wave.

Only way to straight line surf to date on an AR240 is the wedge + ballast as far as I have found.

We surfed years ago with just ballast...around 800 lbs and people. A friend had a bigger plastic surf board that made it pretty easy. My little daughter could surf with a standard wakesurf board but that was it. There are a lot of variables when it comes to surfing....the weight of the rider, the size of the board, speed of the boat, size of the wave, length of the wave, etc. No universal suggestion that will fit all situations.

 

[Kolban]

Thanks everyone for your responses! So we went out yesterday just to test things out and my buddy got up. Not the best wave by any means, but he got up and eventually went ropeless for a minute, then wiped out. I'm definitely looking forward to having a whole week on the water to figure it out and enjoy. Couple of questions...

1. Has anyone had issues with the engine on the high side(when listed) not starting? I had this happen to both sides, starboard engine when listed to port and port when listed to starboard. I haven't ever had an engine not start until yesterday when listing the boat.

2. We are in pretty high altitude, between 4700 and 5500 feet. I had 8-900lbs on the surf side swim deck, 800lbs on the surf side back seat then I had to put a 750lb bag in the front just back enough to cover 1/3 or so of the ski locker door. I had to put a 750 bag up front to get the boat up to speed(10-11 mph) and even then it struggled to get up there (less weight in the front and it wouldn't get up). I had to leave the drivers seat and get as far forward as I could while still holding on to the wheel to help it get up. I'm 250lbs and the buddy I was pulling is around 200lbs, he got up just fine in that case, the boat just hovered at 9mph for a awhile. Do you think high altitude impellers would help/fix this? What effect do high altitude impellers have when you do go to lower altitude?

I still feel like I need more ballast too, but the boat doesn't feel like it can do more. Lots of testing to do.

 

[0627Devildog]

Ok, quite a bit to unpack there and I am on my mobile. . . . So I will try and be as detailed as possible.

1. While folks have had hard start issues (me included) I believe it has almost always been reported as the low side engine. . . .

2. Can you define "wouldn't get up"? . . . .if you mean wouldn't get up on plane. . . .dont expect it to while surfing. Frankly, without a wedge to knock down the jet wash you want the pumps as low in the water as possible, and the nose as hogh as possible so the jets are pointing under the wave.

3. What were your RPMs for 9-10mph? I am only at 1075 altitude but am running similar ballast weight and am usuall around 5600RPM for 9-10mph. Someone who surfs at hight alt should chime in here.

 

[Kolban]

1. Hmmm, maybe I'm crazy and not remembering correctly but I'm pretty sure it was the high side. Maybe not though...

2. Sorry, I meant the throttles were pinned and it wouldn't go past 9mph. That puts the rpms at just over 6000 I believe, maybe even 6400 or so. Can't say for sure on that (I was more focused on the surfer), but even when we were up to the 10-11mph still 6000+.

 

[0627Devildog]

Alt is likely a factor in your case. . . But with that much weight dont expect to ever do more that 20. That said, you should still have enough hole shot to pull up your surfer and get to 10mph relatively easily.

Like I said, someone at alt should chime in though. This is my experience at 1075.