SX192 RPM Opinion

[Dean P]

I can vouch for what @Tom V said. Installing a larger SVHO intercooler with it's own dedicated water lines AND the ribbon delete is the way to go. My RPMs had to work their way up to 7000. Now they instantly hit 7500 and stay there. Hole shots are awesome.

 

[Tom V]

Hey Dean, Good to hear it all came together and the ribbon delete is completed, We will have to catch up and head out to the Pub for lunch.

 

[haknslash]

I can vouch for what @Tom V said. Installing a larger SVHO intercooler with it's own dedicated water lines AND the ribbon delete is the way to go. My RPMs had to work their way up to 7000. Now they instantly hit 7500 and stay there. Hole shots are awesome.

Did you do all the mods at once or one at a time and test along the way? Glad to hear you're able to hold 7500!

 

[Dean P]

Hey Dean, Good to hear it all came together and the ribbon delete is completed, We will have to catch up and head out to the Pub for lunch.

Thanks Tom! Pub sounds like great idea. I'm game. Text me and we'll set it up. I'll let you know how my trim tab install worked out. Insane!

Did you do all the mods at once or one at a time and test along the way? Glad to hear you're able to hold 7500!

I did both mods at once. Wanted to get it over with. I ended up just removing the ribbon and rubber boot leaving nothing in there. Worked fine! Results speak for themselves. Like I said, the RPMs instantly hit 7500 and stay there. Hit a top speed of 46.8mph (last night - tabs up. Tabs all the way down only got to 29mph). I believe if I take the Cobra Fangs off I'd probably do better. At WOT do you know how many gph you're burning?!?!

 

[Midnight2V]

I think I'll go the frozen boost way as I probably have most the fittings, hose, and clamps at my shop.

Does any one know if the riva high flow strainer for a sho fit the 192? Or does anyone recommend any other high flow strainer?

Dieselmore, I have the Riva strainer and I actually tested it out before I did anything else. All by itself using the stock cover plate, the strainer's extra flow took me from 32mph by GPS to 36mph and a 300 rpm increase. Outside temps were 97 air and 91-92 water temp.

As of yesterday, I have finished the frozen boost IC with extra cooling line (1/2") and ribbon delete. I will post results in a couple of days.

 

[Dieselmore]

Dieselmore, I have the Riva strainer and I actually tested it out before I did anything else. All by itself using the stock cover plate, the strainer's extra flow took me from 32mph by GPS to 36mph and a 300 rpm increase. Outside temps were 97 air and 91-92 water temp.

As of yesterday, I have finished the frozen boost IC with extra cooling line (1/2") and ribbon delete. I will post results in a couple of days.

Very interested in your results. Where are you located?

 

[Joe Hellaby]

So this weekend I had the boat out and she was running like a beast again.

I live in upstate NY and this spring I got the 192 new. We took the boat out when it was pretty cold out (low 50's F) and water temps in the high 50s and the boat ran real fast, always high RPMs (78oo)

So as the summer got warmer and temps went up, my performance went down, the warmest water we got in this summer was 80 water temp and probably low 90s air temp. On the hot days the boat wouldn't get much above 7200 rpm (usually at the very beginning when motor was cooler I would get higher)

Now back to this last weekends trip, my wife and I got out on the cool Saturday morning, air temp around 50, water temp in the morning said 63, but later in the day after it warmed up the boat was reading 72 for water temp, we were holding at 7800 rpm and going 48mph with full tank of gas, and us, and lots of gear

Long story short, it's amazing how much of a different these things perform stock in different temps

 

[Midnight2V]

I did the strainer test at lake Carl Blackwell near Stillwater, OK. At this point, I have now fully installed my type 14 system and done the ribbon delete. I was within 100 pounds of my load limit, well over a thousand pounds between gear and 5 passengers. The water was very rough compared to what I am used to, about 1-2 feet of chop, and it ran max RPM @ 47 GPS all day on Tenkiller Lake in east OK. 92F air and 87F water

So based on what I have seen using only the pump strainer, I am wondering if, at stock power levels at least, our boats actually need a larger IC...or maybe only an additional cooling line for the stock IC to get rid of heat soak. It will make a significant improvement in any case.

Given the speed increase that I got with the small flow improvement from the pump strainer, I wonder how much improvement would be seen with just the pump strainer and the extra cooling line using the stock IC. If someone wanted to try that before buying the new IC the total cost for that setup could be less than $125 before shipping.

Even assuming it wasn't as successful as desired, you would still be using those parts for a new intercooler setup. The pump strainer was $90, and the bulk head fitting was $26. Worx has a strainer as well and is much cheaper, but it's coming from Australia. You will need a few other parts from a hardware store for less than $15: a couple washers with 5/8" hole and 1 1/4" OD, silicone, two feet of 1/2" hose, a barbed 1/2" to garden hose adapter, and a garden hose end cap.

Assuming anyone wants to try, here is how to do it...
1. Remove the wet storage locker false floor held in place by Phillips head screws and a hose clamp on the clean out port, disconnect the drain line from the thru-hull fitting. Some wrestling required because it is siliconed to the fitting.
2. Remove the white plastic thru-hull fitting and clean the silicone out of the hole.
3. Install the riva thru hull fitting in the hole. You will need a large washer on each side and properly applied sealant to provide clamping area because the thru fitting from riva is 5/8" and the original bulkhead fitting is 3/4" ID. Let the sealant partially cure before you completely tighten it down.
4. Run the new coolant line off the strainer to the thru-hull hole after the sealant has cured. A little over a foot of hose. (I saved this for last)
5. Continue to use the stock water supply line by disconnecting it from the four-way factory tee and attaching it to the thru-hull connection. Plug the intercooler tap on the four-way factory cooling tee with a short piece of hose and an end plug. (Home Depot barbed 1/2" to garden hose adapter plus garden hose end cap $6 total)
6. Replace the wet storage locker false floor. Yes, now it drains to the bilge, but that's what bilge pumps are for.

If anyone wants to try that, it could save them some labor, cussing, and cost compared to a type 14 install. I figure it might take me an hour total to do all that (outside or the sealant curing time) and be completely reversible. I seriously doubt the original cooler will have the ability to handle much beyond stock power levels, but i think there is a very good chance it could make our boats run the way they are intended.

All this said, I love my type 14 and I consider it well worth the extra effort. I like that I have plenty of room to grow. I will certainly be putting more power in eventually. Probably a C3/BOV and R2 R&D tune with a properly matched impeller.

Good luck to any who give this a shot.

 

[haknslash]

I can't wait for when the weather gets a little cooler here. Performance should go up a good bit. I wished there was a collapsible cockpit shield like on the larger boats so that we could block off cooler air in the late fall and winter as that would extend my boating season a lot.

 

[haknslash]

@Midnight2V please keep us informed if you do end up doing the C3 wheel! I've looked into it but want someone else to take the plunge first on these boats

Testing a dedicated water line for the stock SHO intercooler would be interesting to learn the results. I still think it is too small to keep up with the demands of the engine on these boats compared to say the PWC guys since we weigh considerably more and have to push through the water more. But...anything would be better than stock!! It would be worth a test. One time I touched my front pisser with the stock intercooler and I swear it felt like 3rd degree burns lol...it was so hot!! After the SVHO swap even using stock water line my pisser is not even warm to the touch. The second engine pisser however is still way too freaking hot though! I'm just scared to play around with the engine cooling mods in fear of getting the gas in oil issue the PWC guys have.

 

[swatski]

I did the strainer test at lake Carl Blackwell near Stillwater, OK. At this point, I have now fully installed my type 14 system and done the ribbon delete. I was within 100 pounds of my load limit, well over a thousand pounds between gear and 5 passengers. The water was very rough compared to what I am used to, about 1-2 feet of chop, and it ran max RPM @ 47 GPS all day on Tenkiller Lake in east OK. 92F air and 87F water

So based on what I have seen using only the pump strainer, I am wondering if, at stock power levels at least, our boats actually need a larger IC...or maybe only an additional cooling line for the stock IC to get rid of heat soak. It will make a significant improvement in any case.

Given the speed increase that I got with the small flow improvement from the pump strainer, I wonder how much improvement would be seen with just the pump strainer and the extra cooling line using the stock IC. If someone wanted to try that before buying the new IC the total cost for that setup could be less than $125 before shipping.

Even assuming it wasn't as successful as desired, you would still be using those parts for a new intercooler setup. The pump strainer was $90, and the bulk head fitting was $26. Worx has a strainer as well and is much cheaper, but it's coming from Australia. You will need a few other parts from a hardware store for less than $15: a couple washers with 5/8" hole and 1 1/4" OD, silicone, two feet of 1/2" hose, a barbed 1/2" to garden hose adapter, and a garden hose end cap.

Assuming anyone wants to try, here is how to do it...
1. Remove the wet storage locker false floor held in place by Phillips head screws and a hose clamp on the clean out port, disconnect the drain line from the thru-hull fitting. Some wrestling required because it is siliconed to the fitting.
2. Remove the white plastic thru-hull fitting and clean the silicone out of the hole.
3. Install the riva thru hull fitting in the hole. You will need a large washer on each side and properly applied sealant to provide clamping area because the thru fitting from riva is 5/8" and the original bulkhead fitting is 3/4" ID. Let the sealant partially cure before you completely tighten it down.
4. Run the new coolant line off the strainer to the thru-hull hole after the sealant has cured. A little over a foot of hose. (I saved this for last)
5. Continue to use the stock water supply line by disconnecting it from the four-way factory tee and attaching it to the thru-hull connection. Plug the intercooler tap on the four-way factory cooling tee with a short piece of hose and an end plug. (Home Depot barbed 1/2" to garden hose adapter plus garden hose end cap $6 total)
6. Replace the wet storage locker false floor. Yes, now it drains to the bilge, but that's what bilge pumps are for.

If anyone wants to try that, it could save them some labor, cussing, and cost compared to a type 14 install. I figure it might take me an hour total to do all that (outside or the sealant curing time) and be completely reversible. I seriously doubt the original cooler will have the ability to handle much beyond stock power levels, but i think there is a very good chance it could make our boats run the way they are intended.

All this said, I love my type 14 and I consider it well worth the extra effort. I like that I have plenty of room to grow. I will certainly be putting more power in eventually. Probably a C3/BOV and R2 R&D tune with a properly matched impeller.

Good luck to any who give this a shot.

@Midnight2V Very cool approach! I don't have a SC but have been watching this thread with great interest, love the troubleshooting and sharing of ideas. Yours is definitely a fresh and new one!

I wonder about your reflash comment, if there is ANY reason to go with R&D given the availability of V-tech MapTuner X for Yamaha boat market?

--

 

[Midnight2V]

I hadn't really considered the V-tech simply because I know very little about it. But I like what you've been putting out there Swatski.

I have a SCT handheld tuner for every vehicle I own (Ford fan boy here). The handheld tuner approach is definitely to my liking. The main reason I had considered a mail in reflash is some correspondence I have had with R&D, and a lack of detail on other options. They are easy to get in touch with and very knowledgeable. They put a lot of detail on their website regarding what their tunes do.

I definitely need to do my homework on a MapTuner X. I would much rather have a handheld with unlimited retunes now that they are offering more support for boats. What kind of diagnostic capabilities does the Map tuner X have?

 

[swatski]

What kind of diagnostic capabilities does the Map tuner X have?

Those capabilities were kind of rudimentary, at least the last time I checked, at least as far as the Yamaha. They have a better set up for Rotax. I'm sure they would love working with you if you have the time and interest, but you would have to do a lot of work. These guys are great though.
The V-tech development team for Maptuner X is now also a division of Riva and their canned tune collection for 1.8l Yammie engines is legit!

--

 

[Midnight2V]

That sounds great, I'll get in touch with them. It may be next spring before I can do anything though. Autumn hits Oklahoma hard and fast so I doubt I'll get to take it out again this year

 

[Midnight2V]

Well, Riva put the instruction manual on their website for the MapTuner X. It's got some pretty good details on the capabilities of the unit. They seem to have upgraded the diagnostic side of the units capabilities as well.

Also, they are giving out access to all of Rivas tunes as well, with your ECU license and they have detailed downloads for the requirements to run those tunes. The downside is that all of Rivas tunes at this point are for skis only. From what I read on another forum, there is a pay upgrade that will even allow you to modify V-Tech's custom tunes from the handheld. Seems very promising.

 

[swatski]

Well, Riva put the instruction manual on their website for the MapTuner X. It's got some pretty good details on the capabilities of the unit. They seem to have upgraded the diagnostic side of the units capabilities as well.

Also, they are giving out access to all of Rivas tunes as well, with your ECU license and they have detailed downloads for the requirements to run those tunes. The downside is that all of Rivas tunes at this point are for skis only. From what I read on another forum, there is a pay upgrade that will even allow you to modify V-Tech's custom tunes from the handheld. Seems very promising.

Yes, they have made massive progress in the last year or so in taking it out of the realm of racers and into main stream. Of course many of the claims are a bit overpromised in terms of availability, but if you buy through greenhulk store Jerry Gaddis is very responsive.
My experience has been with the 1.8l N/A engine, so a different beast altogether, but I found that different versions of their tunes were indeed VERY different in terms of throttle response curves. I did not even consider it before purchase, but ended up making my favorite selections based on that - even with the non-E throttles (fly-by-wire) V-tech tunes made throttle operation so much smoother (with certain versions of the same stage program being more agressive than other). Very cool stuff.

 

[WildBillF1]

On Saturday I replaced my intercooler with a SVHO intercooler. Here's random data for comparison.

Best Performance with Original intercooler
Air temp: 110*
Water temp: 76*
Speedometer: 43 MPH
GPS: Unknown
RPM's: 6900
Load: 2 adults, no gear
Notes: 0 to 30 MPH time is very disappointing. Two minutes after running WOT, RPM's drop to 6700.

First Performance with SVHO intercooler
Air temp: 96*
Water temp: 79*
Speedometer: 47 MPH
GPS: 44.7 MPH
RPM's: 7400
Load: 4 adults, 1 full cooler, extra crap that two women need when going out for the day, tools and original intercooler in case I needed to swap back for any reason.
Notes: Huge difference out of the hole. I didn't time 0 to 30 MPH, but acceleration improvement is very noticeable. RPM's consistent at 7350-7400.

Will be interesting to see how the boat performs next Summer, when air temps rise again to nearly 120*. I have no doubt the larger intercooler helped improvement, but I know lower air temps helped as well. For $200, I think the lightly used SVHO intercooler was money well spent.

 

[WildBillF1]

Last year I upgraded to the SVHO intercooler, but the heat soak seems to have returned.

 

[Tom V]

View attachment 57914 Last year I upgraded to the SVHO intercooler, but the heat soak seems to have returned.

Pull your air filter and run without it. It will help a little. Nothing is going to run efficiently in that heat

 

[Midnight2V]

Wild Bill, any idea what your elevation is? Also, have you done the dedicated cooling line?

My rig has run full power with 92 degree water and 107 degree air with over 85% humidity. If you want to maximize your potential you need the cooling line, and I'll explain why.

You cannot control air tem or lake temp, but you can control cooling characteristics - specifically your cooling flow rate, and your useable heat exchange area.

The SVHO intercooler advertises 60% more cooling capacity, but that doesn't automatically equate to a 60% increase in cooling. Just because we install a bigger intercooler it may not increase cooling at all. It takes time to transfer heat. The easiest way to figure out if your bigger intercooler is actually providing more cooling is by seeing an increase in your intercooler outlet temperature for the same cooling flow rate.

An important thing to remember is that changing the size of the intercooler does not change the heat sink capacity of your cooling system, only the speed at which the heat can be transferred. More surface area means more heat can be transferred per unit time.

It is also important to remember that heat exchange requires a temperature difference to occur. Once your cooling system heats up to the same temp as your air system, no more heat exchange occurs regardless of the intercooler size. Also, as the temperature of the cooling system increases, the slower the rate of heat exchange because you have a lower temperature difference.

A dedicated cooling line on our boats more than doubles the flow of your cooling water to your intercooler and thereby more than doubles the cooling capacity of your system. If your inlet temp is 90 and your outlet temp is 140 then your average intercooler temp is 115 and your delta is 50 degrees. If you double the flow you increase your cooling capacity by 100%. For the same heat load, now your outlet is only 115, your average intercooler water temp is 102.5, and your delta is 25 which also increase the transfer rate for the same size intercooler.

Since heat soak occurs when at some point, the water flowing through your intercooler heats up to the point that there is not enough temperature difference between the water temp and the air temp to efficiently transfer heat - cooling flow rate is at least as critical to fix the problem compared to intercooler size. The only way to accomplish that is by installing the dedicated flow line or the hi-flow jet pump strainer.