the Ultimate setup

[haknslash]

Someone should do a Seven Marine motor off a Scarab 165 lol

 

[CAM212SS]

Oh gotcha. The sideways movement.

sure you can turn the boat on a dime, but what if you have a cross wind pushing you into the dock or even another boat.. you would want to push away right. the lateral thruster allows that now. previously you had to be in full reverse to direct the stern of the boat away from an object. now you still are in reverse but you are gaining a lot of lateral or sideways push as well, especially if you are only using the bucket that would be engaging the thruster while the other bucket is in "so called neutral" . Its all about more control if the stern.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

So for the record any 19 foot Yamaha boat keel or no keel equipped with the new cobra vipers has excellent reverse control as well as forward control at all speeds and power steering, better braking ability when using reverse , faster planning, perfect tracking at all speeds a more stable hull attitude in rough conditions and the cost is a no brainer. SO the VIPER improves every part of the boats handling from forward that you use 99 percent of the time to reverse that has been described by customers to be as accurate as it's forward steering. And with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee it's a simple and practical choice. I started enhancing reverse with the fangs a couple years ago, it provides you with a reliable and predictable reverse control without over steering . Oh $159 with free shipping in the U S A !

 

[CAM212SS]

So for the record any 19 foot Yamaha boat keel or no keel equipped with the new cobra vipers has excellent reverse control as well as forward control at all speeds and power steering, better braking ability when using reverse , faster planning, perfect tracking at all speeds a more stable hull attitude in rough conditions and the cost is a no brainer. SO the VIPER improves every part of the boats handling from forward that you use 99 percent of the time to reverse that has been described by customers to be as accurate as it's forward steering. And with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee it's a simple and practical choice. I started enhancing reverse with the fangs a couple years ago, it provides you with a reliable and predictable reverse control without over steering . Oh $159 with free shipping in the U S A !

its that 1% that causes 99% of the damage

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Really 99percent of all damage is from a lack of reverse control. I doubt that is true but the lack of reverse control was why I started making the fangs a couple of years ago and they do a very good job, so between the fins and the fangs I do not see any issues with people having control in reverse if they wanted more they would only need to ask for a little larger fang and there it would be. I would be concerned about going into reverse to do an emergency stop and have the boat whip sideways or in a tight place have the boat turn too fast to one side, On setups where the reverse is built into the reverse buckets like 4 tec systems the thrust is angled but never 90 degrees. In any event I am simply saying I made a reverse enhancement for these boats that works and it is predictable.. If someone is inclined to do some trick in reverse they probably could however that was never my intent and I always lean on the conservative side when I design new items. In any event I believe all jet boats need steering enhancements in forward and reverse on all fronts at all speeds and loss of power situations as well as for water sports. I keep my parts priced in a reasonable realm so as to encourage people to improve their boating experience without the cost deterring them because we all go out on the water to enjoy ourselves and constantly worrying about the boats handling characteristics is not my idea of enjoyment. By all means there are a lot of different people in the world with a variety of different opinions and requirements. I make my systems for the people who believe you should feel comfortable in your boat and enjoy it with their family and friends without having to be worried about it's shortcomings in the handling dept. Remember I started doing this because I purchased a jet boat and I did the first steering system to fix it's shortcomings, after doing that and seeing what a huge difference it made for the jet boat handling deficit I decided to stay the course and make it for public use. And all these years later I continue to stay the course with my designs to make peoples boating experience more enjoyable.

 

[swatski]

its that 1% that causes 99% of the damage

I'm trying to understand what you are saying. In my own experience, the only damage I have done in reverse has been to my impellers... from stirring up rocks and sucking them in. In no way could LTEs help me there.

I think I understand the LTE concept well, and I can totally see LTEs being a very nice feature!

But - I spend >99% of my boating time in forward. Would I want to compromise that (by having to drop Cobras) to gain LTEs? - heck no.

The reverse is kind of awful (sux) but it works to stop the boat from moving forward.
I have never found myself in a situation where I would be stuck with this boat. In fact, I can easily out-maneuver any other (traditionally propelled) boat in my (small and super tricky) marina.

--

 

[CAM212SS]

It is not necessarily all about reverse control... Hence the name given "lateral thruster" I know you have you own product you need to sell @Cobra Jet Steering LLC, and i have purchased your product in the past. It is a very good product. I would guarantee though if you used the lateral thruster, you would appreciate the handling it gives to a boat. I 100% of the time reverse my boat into a dock or slip. There are many times that i wished i could push the stern away from the dock because my momentum was too great or the wind was too much. I now have that ability to do so.

 

[swatski]

It is not necessarily all about reverse control... Hence the name given "lateral thruster" I know you have you own product you need to sell @Cobra Jet Steering LLC, and i have purchased your product in the past. It is a very good product. I would guarantee though if you used the lateral thruster, you would appreciate the handling it gives to a boat. I 100% of the time reverse my boat into a dock or slip. There are many times that i wished i could push the stern away from the dock because my momentum was too great or the wind was too much. I now have that ability to do so.

Oh, I can see that! No doubt - being able to throw your stern around and move it sideways is super cool and can be very very useful.
(I have always been puzzled why Yamaha has not implemented a version of their own "ride" style steering nozzle/buckets in boats, but that's a different story).

I could be totally wrong - but the way I see it - I predict a total dominance of @Cobra Jet Steering LLC Viper systems as far as the single engine steering enhancements. It's just too good of a system from what I'm seeing.

With the big keeled 24' hulls, IDK, it's more complicated... The AKs and the extra steering rods are great but provide not nearly the amount of influence as, for example, the Ultimates do in single engine boats; there is also less need for "planting" the stern (for water sports) with the big keeled hull. So, it may be a choice between what do you want more: crisper steering and safety in forward - OR - lateral stern control in reverse.


I think I would rank available 2015+ 24' steering/attitude adjustments (the way I use my boat) in this way:

1. Tabs - Lectrotabs w/ short actuators etc., as posted in the other thread
2. Cobra AKs w/the complementing steering rod
3. LTEs? (no personal experience - but I think the evidence they do what they are designed to do is solid)

Hopefully, the last two will not be mutually exclusive at some point. I think it's too bad that, apparently, one needs to give up one to get the other right now.

As far as attitude adjustments, the big hulls benefit from tabs tremendously and I would not replace my tabs with Vipers. Vipers may also interfere with wake surfing in twins - if you do that.
(or may not interfere, I don't think we actually know; but it would be a consideration)

--

 

[Beachbummer]

Tabs and vipers are different entirely. Very little overlap in function.

For the best upgrade you need both. Cobra and trim tabs. Steering first, as it's cheaper and more urgent for the boat to go where it is pointed to better... Then trim tabs to make the boat much bigger in water and balance side to side with uneven load on in side wind condition.

Tabs are totally worth it too if 500-800 bucks won't otherwise impact your living situation. I have the compact lenco I got from eBay after watching for a long time and got the indicator switches and compact tabs for my 230 for close to $500.
Great upgrade also, but does not substitute the Cobra fins.

 

[cj3737]

The big thing for me is having that "get outta dodge" factor around the docks... Our ramp runs east/west and our breeze usually comes from the north so there is pretty much a side blow whenever we get back. Ive noticed there are times I have to jam on reverse to help line up on the trailer so that is my biggest thing.. I know the LTEs could help that but Id rather have the ability to go straight back rather than a nudge in either direction.. seems like that could get a bit confusing if I had someone racking my boat that didnt understand it.. Check LTEs off the list.. For now...

Tabs and vipers are different entirely. Very little overlap in function.

For the best upgrade you need both. Cobra and trim tabs. Steering first, as it's cheaper and more urgent for the boat to go where it is pointed to better... Then trim tabs to make the boat much bigger in water and balance side to side with uneven load on in side wind condition.

Tabs are totally worth it too if 500-800 bucks won't otherwise impact your living situation. I have the compact lenco I got from eBay after watching for a long time and got the indicator switches and compact tabs for my 230 for close to $500.
Great upgrade also, but does not substitute the Cobra fins.

Ive got Lenco tabs on my current boat and while its taking a bit to understand exactly how they work and make my boat react, they are definitely a great enhancement especially with a unbalanced load out. Plus, Ive found I can do some wake shaping at different speeds...Cant wait till next summer!!! The only thing I dont like about them is the backwards operation of the switch.. Up is bow down and bow down is up.. The verbage on the switch makes it wonky.. I try not to look at it while im operating and just know that down, lifts whatever side... Kinda trippy when you play with it at first...

 

[Beachbummer]

I think of the switch as a representation of the side of the boat, you are working on, so you push the "bow" of the switch to get the bow of the boat down, and if you need the Stern back down, you push on it on the switch to make it happen.

Once I thought of it this way, it seems more intuitive to me.

 

[cj3737]

I think of the switch as a representation of the side of the boat, you are working on, so you push the "bow" of the switch to get the bow of the boat down, and if you need the Stern back down, you push on it on the switch to make it happen.

Once I thought of it this way, it seems more intuitive to me.

I think of it as an airplane wing... If the left aileron goes down, the left wing goes up

 

[Beachbummer]

If you would rather have it reversed you can switch the connectors for the tabs, (left in right, right on left) and the switches with behave reversed.

You still must hit up, but it will be in your intuitive side.

 

[FloJet]

I'm trying to understand what you are saying. In my own experience, the only damage I have done in reverse has been to my impellers... from stirring up rocks and sucking them in. In no way could LTEs help me there.

I think I understand the LTE concept well, and I can totally see LTEs being a very nice feature!

But - I spend >99% of my boating time in forward. Would I want to compromise that (by having to drop Cobras) to gain LTEs? - heck no.

The reverse is kind of awful (sux) but it works to stop the boat from moving forward.
I have never found myself in a situation where I would be stuck with this boat. In fact, I can easily out-maneuver any other (traditionally propelled) boat in my (small and super tricky) marina.

--

I agree with you here. Not to mention all about experience level behind the throttle. There is isn't much I cannot do in reverse turning either compared to forward. Just have to learn how to use both levels. I guess my days of practicing around cans on the water really paid off.

With the Cobra fins, I find it I have control on all stages. I can turn in reverse or forwards basically the same way. I can also make the boat creep sideways too if I desire. Again it's all about practicing such maneuvers which I did over over. I still try to practice maneuvers now as the more experience I get.

 

[FloJet]

The big thing for me is having that "get outta dodge" factor around the docks... Our ramp runs east/west and our breeze usually comes from the north so there is pretty much a side blow whenever we get back. Ive noticed there are times I have to jam on reverse to help line up on the trailer so that is my biggest thing.. I know the LTEs could help that but Id rather have the ability to go straight back rather than a nudge in either direction.. seems like that could get a bit confusing if I had someone racking my boat that didnt understand it.. Check LTEs off the list.. For now...



Ive got Lenco tabs on my current boat and while its taking a bit to understand exactly how they work and make my boat react, they are definitely a great enhancement especially with a unbalanced load out. Plus, Ive found I can do some wake shaping at different speeds...Cant wait till next summer!!! The only thing I dont like about them is the backwards operation of the switch.. Up is bow down and bow down is up.. The verbage on the switch makes it wonky.. I try not to look at it while im operating and just know that down, lifts whatever side... Kinda trippy when you play with it at first...

I think the automatic controller will help take out the guessing game of how it works if you don't already have it.

 

[OCMD]

Find a used 230 AR or SX. You have a whole winter to search. Start on this forum first; the other forum later. You should be able to get into one for 19-25K, depending on care, location, desperation of seller. These boats are bulletproof. Change the oil/plugs and winterize. That's it. Remember, this is a forum. You will read so much about so many types of modifications. Don't worry about that stuff, yet. You may find you will not need any of the mods, but if you do? There is no shortage of excellent advice here. Steering crutches? These boats handle like a dream without attachments, as long as you learn to operate it. This has been my experience, and all my friends and family members who operate the boat to a person have had no issues in the handling of the boat, stock. So don't fret the handling. Radio mods also discussed herein? Well, the stock radio does suck. The noise of these boats, also discussed here but not as much? I have never given this a second thought. Not a big deal at all, for me or my passengers. Just locate your boat. Purchase it. And don't look back. Have fun as we did on our first day out.....
(BTW, the big boy on the first tube crash is now the starting center for Clemson....)