The Vaccine

[Chip F.]

Good thought provoking read.

18 reasons I won’t be getting a COVID vaccine – NaturalNews.com

A few friends have asked my thoughts on the covid jab(s) so I thought it was time to write an article on the topic. (Article by Christian Elliot republished from DeconstructingConventional.com) All my friends had not heard most of the details I shared, so I figured you might appreciate hearing...

www.naturalnews.com

 

[seanmclean]

Honest question because I have no clue about the process. The vaccines were given an emergency authorization based off of trials that included under 50,000 people in each trial. Now there are millions of people now vaccinated, how come these drugs are approved by the FDA yet?

Full FDA Approval (Marketing Authorization) takes longer. The companies which developed the drugs have much larger studies ongoing that will fulfill the regulatory requirements set by FDA, EMA, and others - likewise there will be real-world analysis of vaccine performance and toxicology outside of controlled trials. EUAs are very rare, even accelerated approvals for rare diseases or terminal diseases like cancer can take 6-8 months from the time they are submitted (in this case, we wouldn't have seen an accelerated approval until July-ish).

The risk/benefit analysis here heavily benefited the EUA, the benefit is massive, the risk is infinitesimally low. The J&J blood clotting issue is a very, very small number - but concerning nonetheless - pausing distribution is a serious decision. For everyone moaning about how quickly it was rushed, actions like this should be viewed not as reinforcing your viewpoint, but recognizing how seriously health authorities are monitoring and reacting to real-world data. There is more than likely something 'special' about those six people - and as someone who occasionally works to investigate new, unexpected safety signals, this is basically SOP, and will refine guidance for who should or should not get the vaccine. If there is some infinitesimally small group that is more likely to experience clinically significant adverse reactions, they will either be excluded from receiving the vaccine, or perhaps they need to receive some concomitant therapy to reduce the risk of clotting, or receive a different vaccine that hasn't demonstrated this effect. This is clinical development and safety surveillance 101.

 

[Jerlane]

Farny, FYI, you mentioned that vaccines don’t prevent infection or transmission. That is not correct. There was uncertainty at first as to whether or not you could still become infected and transmit. Data is now showing that vaccinations offer good protection against becoming infected and transmitting as well as significantly reducing chances of severe infection. That’s why the CDC has softened their stance on vaccinated people gathering and traveling.

 

[Jerlane]

Good thought provoking read.

18 reasons I won’t be getting a COVID vaccine – NaturalNews.com

A few friends have asked my thoughts on the covid jab(s) so I thought it was time to write an article on the topic. (Article by Christian Elliot republished from DeconstructingConventional.com) All my friends had not heard most of the details I shared, so I figured you might appreciate hearing...

www.naturalnews.com

There are so many errors in that “article” it’s hard to know where to start.

 

[Chip F.]

There are so many errors in that “article” it’s hard to know where to start.

Pick an easy one

 

[swatski]

Good thought provoking read.

18 reasons I won’t be getting a COVID vaccine – NaturalNews.com

A few friends have asked my thoughts on the covid jab(s) so I thought it was time to write an article on the topic. (Article by Christian Elliot republished from DeconstructingConventional.com) All my friends had not heard most of the details I shared, so I figured you might appreciate hearing...

www.naturalnews.com

This is such a load of crap, sorry but I don't believe for a second a thinking adult with even rudimentary analytical ability could take it seriously.

Just more of the same "what FDA doesn't want you to know" style nonsense, masquerading as information.

Which is fine if you take it for what it's worth (it is thought provoking!) but ignore the pervasive "us versus them" narrative - people that peddle those conspiracy theories do it for clicks (and profits).

--

 

[tabbibus]

Lots to unpack. I guess I'll work backwards.

The article posted above by Chip
- Gosh. Not sure how to grab this one. It has quite the many factual errors, subjective assertions presented as facts, and facts presented out of context that it is hard to even discuss it.
- I do wanna touch on breakthrough cases. CDC just recently reported 5800 breakthrough cases. With only 396 of those hospitalized. And 74 deaths. Regardless of what the click baity media wants you to think, those are great numbers! Remember that the denominator here is 77 million people fully vaccinated.

Ivermectin and Vitamins
- To state that ivermectin and vitamins are equally and / or more effective than the vaccine is a hard sell. Are there data to suggest that ivermectin helps? Sure, there is stuff out there. But the data aren't that great. And I'll tell you, we used it for some time and I feel that it didn't to squat. We definitely don't use it anymore. And many of my colleagues who treat outpatient covid have also echoed the fact that ivermectin at an early phase also does not seem to change the course.
- Absolutely all my patients get vitamins. D, thiamine, zinc, C. Hate to sound like a broken record, but so many have died! I wish they had the vaccine instead of getting sick.
- I just need to say it again. Ivermectin and vitamins have no where near the same level of data and efficacy compared to the currently available vaccines.

Trusting God and nature
- I absolutely do not want to minimize your beliefs. I'm a believer as well if it matters. One could say that getting such an effective vaccine in such short time frame is a great gift from above!
- To trust nature, one would try to understand nature as well. That is what science is. And science is always changing. I think it is disingenuous to say that we shouldn't trust scientists because they change their stance on something. If anything, I would trust that more because it shows a willingness to accept one is wrong.

yeesh. long post. sorry for the wall of text.

 

[Beachbummer]

@swatski But this is exactly the challenge. How do you share additional info to potentially move the needle? Appointments for vaccine in MS are unfilled. Many read and identify with articles like that one. How do you respond with empathy and support to those unconvinced to show them that this is not the correct version of the truth?

I don't have the solution.

One side is greatly skeptical, the other feels they are interacting with Flat Earthers that ignore "prima fascia" evidence. If the gap is not closed we will not reach the vaccine coverage we hope for.

 

[Dean P]

@swatski But this is exactly the challenge. How do you share additional info to potentially move the needle? Appointments for vaccine in MS are unfilled. Many read and identify with articles like that one. How do you respond with empathy and support to those unconvinced to show them that this is not the correct version of the truth?

I don't have the solution.

One side is greatly skeptical, the other feels they are interacting with Flat Earthers that ignore "prima fascia" evidence. If the gap is not closed we will not reach the vaccine coverage we hope for.

Unfortunately, many more people will die. Sad...

 

[adrianp89]

Unfortunately, many more people will die. Sad...

Guess those people should get the vaccine

Too bad there isn't the same level of concern for things that have been killing a few hundred thousand people a year. No gives a shit about heart disease.

 

[tabbibus]

Guess those people should get the vaccine

Too bad there isn't the same level of concern for things that have been killing a few hundred thousand people a year. No gives a shit about heart disease.

where would you get the sense that we don't care? The amount of money put into trying to prevent this disease is pretty big. But just like COVID, it seems prevention isn't as appealing as treatment. Mind you, treatment of a heart attach is much more effective than that of COVID. But since we arrived at this topic, the analogy here would be people saying that we shouldn't eat better, exercise, take cholesterol and blood pressure meds when indicated (which have side effects, mind you) because the likelihood of getting a heart attack isn't all that great. And if you do, you will likely not die.

Also, heart disease isn't a communicable disease. If person A eats at MickeyDs every day it won't give person B a heart attach.

Really not sure why bringing up heart disease is applicable to our discussion.

 

[seanmclean]

Completely agree with the good doc above. Heart Disease is a killer, Cancer is a killer, Diabetes is a killer. There is a wealth of information on lifestyle choices you can make to minimize your risk of many of them, and an army of physicians and scientists working their tails off to try and help if you choose not to believe the 'medical/industrial complex'.

 

[Trannyguy]

where would you get the sense that we don't care? The amount of money put into trying to prevent this disease is pretty big. But just like COVID, it seems prevention isn't as appealing as treatment. Mind you, treatment of a heart attach is much more effective than that of COVID. But since we arrived at this topic, the analogy here would be people saying that we shouldn't eat better, exercise, take cholesterol and blood pressure meds when indicated (which have side effects, mind you) because the likelihood of getting a heart attack isn't all that great. And if you do, you will likely not die.

Also, heart disease isn't a communicable disease. If person A eats at MickeyDs every day it won't give person B a heart attach.

Really not sure why bringing up heart disease is applicable to our discussion.

So if your eating habits can’t give me a heart attack wouldn’t that be the same as me not being able to give you covid if your vaccinated but I’m not ? You guys brought up heart disease but how many of you guys will go get vaccinated then go have a drink? A quick google search shows that there is over 95,000 alcohol related deaths in the us every year. That’s every year. Why do we still have the right to go in any store and buy alcohol but not choose whether or not we get a vaccine? How about the 890,000 abortion murders in the us every year? Why do we not have 13 page posts on that to educate each other. Why is drinking and killing babies a “right” we have in the U.S but I don’t have the right to not get vaccinated?

 

[Beachbummer]

@Trannyguy I call false premise.

You do have the right to not get vaccinated. Has the national guard shown up yet to strap you down to vaccinate you? I personally wish you would vaccinate, but there is no compulsory vaccination, as you imply in your question " I don’t have the right to not get vaccinated? " You do. I don't think that's in dispute right now. Do you disagree?

My goal would be to offer you info that might make you think like vaccinating is a good idea, but there is no mandate at this point that I am aware.

 

[AZMark]

So if your eating habits can’t give me a heart attack wouldn’t that be the same as me not being able to give you covid if your vaccinated but I’m not ? You guys brought up heart disease but how many of you guys will go get vaccinated then go have a drink? A quick google search shows that there is over 95,000 alcohol related deaths in the us every year. That’s every year. Why do we still have the right to go in any store and buy alcohol but not choose whether or not we get a vaccine? How about the 890,000 abortion murders in the us every year? Why do we not have 13 page posts on that to educate each other. Why is drinking and killing babies a “right” we have in the U.S but I don’t have the right to not get vaccinated?

You do have a right not to get vaccinated. The same people encouraging you to get vaccinated would also encourage you to not kill anyone else or yourself through other actions.
Look at the numbers you just posted vs the number of COVID deaths in one year and you should understand the urgency the world has around this health concern.

 

[seanmclean]

So if your eating habits can’t give me a heart attack wouldn’t that be the same as me not being able to give you covid if your vaccinated but I’m not ? You guys brought up heart disease but how many of you guys will go get vaccinated then go have a drink? A quick google search shows that there is over 95,000 alcohol related deaths in the us every year. That’s every year. Why do we still have the right to go in any store and buy alcohol but not choose whether or not we get a vaccine? How about the 890,000 abortion murders in the us every year? Why do we not have 13 page posts on that to educate each other. Why is drinking and killing babies a “right” we have in the U.S but I don’t have the right to not get vaccinated?

Um, you absolutely have the right not to get vaccinated. Nobody has said otherwise. I think you should, but that's up to you.

 

[Trannyguy]

@Trannyguy I call false premise.

You do have the right to not get vaccinated. Has the national guard shown up yet to strap you down to vaccinate you? I personally wish you would vaccinate, but there is no compulsory vaccination, as you imply in your question " I don’t have the right to not get vaccinated? " You do. I don't think that's in dispute right now. Do you disagree?

My goal would be to offer you info that might make you think like vaccinating is a good idea, but there is no mandate at this point that I am aware.

Ok maybe I mis worded that. I have the right to not get vaccinated but everyone would like to make me feel like I don’t care about people or I’m some kind of heartless person. I don’t trust the vaccine at all or most of the stuff we’ve been told since the beginning of this crap.

 

[AZMark]

Ok maybe I mis worded that. I have the right to not get vaccinated but everyone would like to make me feel like I don’t care about people or I’m some kind of heartless person. I don’t trust the vaccine at all or most of the stuff we’ve been told since the beginning of this crap.

So don't get it until you feel comfortable, but please keep an open mind vs. just not trusting it for made up reasons (not saying you do this but those reasons are certainly out there).

And just to go back to the comments on other diseases and killers from you and @adrianp89, like @tabbibus said we do care about all those things. There are literally hundreds or thousands of charities, medical organizations, government entities, and laws trying to protect us from those things all the time. Many of those laws and regulations infringe on our freedoms too in the most basic sense - there are places in this country where you can't buy a large soda or a beer - we've just gotten used to them.

 

[Beachbummer]

Ok maybe I mis worded that. I have the right to not get vaccinated but everyone would like to make me feel like I don’t care about people or I’m some kind of heartless person. I don’t trust the vaccine at all or most of the stuff we’ve been told since the beginning of this crap.

Those exercising their Baby killing rights you mentioned earlier feel the exact same on the other side of that conversation. Your challenge trying to convince them they are wrong is the same challenge those pro-vaccine feel to try to convince you. It's tough when folks are that far apart.

My ask is, what would you need to see to feel comfortable being vaccinated? (if any)

 

[BoaTN]

I'm not advocating for one side or the other - it's a personal choice. I ran across this article, and the points he makes are interesting, but the comments show the extreme polarization on this topic. Much like this thread in fact.

Good thought provoking read.

18 reasons I won’t be getting a COVID vaccine – NaturalNews.com

A few friends have asked my thoughts on the covid jab(s) so I thought it was time to write an article on the topic. (Article by Christian Elliot republished from DeconstructingConventional.com) All my friends had not heard most of the details I shared, so I figured you might appreciate hearing...

www.naturalnews.com

Link to article

Check the comments.