Thoughts and demo rides of wake / towsports boats: Moomba Max, Axis A22, MB Sports

[DavisAR195]

Well.....

There just are not many boats for sale this year! The T23 I was interested in, decided that he had another interested party before me. I understand this however he asked me to put a deposit and then said someone else had already put one down. Frustrating to say the least. But it is what it is.

In the meantime my wife decided to look at an A24. Now she is really in love with the amount of room it has, can't say as I blame her. So we are looking at a new 2020 A24 with the M6di engine. It is a really nice boat for sure..... It is however a 105K :O I would need to keep this boat for at least 5 years to have it make sense. I don't mind but what will I need to buy on top of a new boat to set it up properly? Questions.. Questions... humm

Here are my additional purchases when making the switch from a jet, upgraded Wakemaker's piggyback ballast bags $300, Wake/Surf prop so I could keep the stock prop as a spare $600, Prop puller kit/storage bag $170, Engine bay reinforcement kit for the upgraded bags $60, and 500 lbs in lead bags $590 to fine tune the wake.

 

[d_coyne1984]

Well.....

There just are not many boats for sale this year! The T23 I was interested in, decided that he had another interested party before me. I understand this however he asked me to put a deposit and then said someone else had already put one down. Frustrating to say the least. But it is what it is.

In the meantime my wife decided to look at an A24. Now she is really in love with the amount of room it has, can't say as I blame her. So we are looking at a new 2020 A24 with the M6di engine. It is a really nice boat for sure..... It is however a 105K :O I would need to keep this boat for at least 5 years to have it make sense. I don't mind but what will I need to buy on top of a new boat to set it up properly? Questions.. Questions... humm

You probably won't need much out the door to get on that thing and have some fun as long as you have a board. That's kind of the beauty of these things; they come with everything you need to get going from the factory. I have seen some really great prices on boards from evo.com if you need one. From what I have seen and heard, all these boats can use more weight to maximize their potential, especially with a light crew onboard, but I would order the boat with every ballast option and see how you feel about it once you surf it. I have also heard that on those, the power wedge is the way you want to go over the floater (I think they might all come with the power wedge now?)

 

[Lynkage]

Thanks @d_coyne1984

Well.... we did pull the trigger on the A24. We however bought one off the lot so we don't really get to add anything from the factory. Not many boats to choose from in the western US right now. It does have the Power Wedge 3 and the M6Di motor, mid-range stereo but I will fix that! LOT's of room the little snorkel heaters the sliding rear seat, retractable seat backs on each side. Once I get the full list I will publish it. Looks like I will be participating on the Malibu Crew forums as well.

Pictures to come...

 

[OrangeTJ]

Well.....

There just are not many boats for sale this year! The T23 I was interested in, decided that he had another interested party before me. I understand this however he asked me to put a deposit and then said someone else had already put one down. Frustrating to say the least. But it is what it is.

In the meantime my wife decided to look at an A24. Now she is really in love with the amount of room it has, can't say as I blame her. So we are looking at a new 2020 A24 with the M6di engine. It is a really nice boat for sure..... It is however a 105K :O I would need to keep this boat for at least 5 years to have it make sense. I don't mind but what will I need to buy on top of a new boat to set it up properly? Questions.. Questions... humm

Is the 105K the "list" price, or a negotiated price? If it is list, be aware that typically there is a LOT of difference between that price and what you'll actually pay. It is not at all uncommon to come down 15-20% and sometimes more. If the bottom line is $105K, I'd just encourage you to be aware that this puts you into a range where there are quite a large number of boats to choose from. Nothing wrong with the A24 at all - that's a lot of boat - but at that price definitely consider shopping across virtually all brands.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Thanks @d_coyne1984

Well.... we did pull the trigger on the A24. We however bought one off the lot so we don't really get to add anything from the factory. Not many boats to choose from in the western US right now. It does have the Power Wedge 3 and the M6Di motor, mid-range stereo but I will fix that! LOT's of room the little snorkel heaters the sliding rear seat, retractable seat backs on each side. Once I get the full list I will publish it. Looks like I will be participating on the Malibu Crew forums as well.

Pictures to come...

Never mind about that last post of mine! Congrats on the new boat! It's a beast for sure!

 

[Mrbruin2k]

We just got a 2020 A24 with the M5di engine and absolutely love it. Upgraded from a 2011 SX240 and love the space on it. Much better ride and control in the water and super easy to dial in the wake options. Yamaha definitely offers some good bang for the buck but these surf boats are a completely different animal

 

[Lynkage]

Never mind about that last post of mine! Congrats on the new boat! It's a beast for sure!

Thanks OrangeTJ!! Yep about 14% less plus 2K in pro shop credit! MSRP was 110k. We need boards and goodies so I feel we did okay. Also received 35% off last years boards and gear! My wife is happy and well you know the saying.... We will pick it up on the 7th and head directly to Lake Powell for a week starting on the 12th! I do like that they order all of their boats with the biggest motor option!

My salesman is selling my Yamaha for me as well. Pretty much as soon as I dropped it off today, he had someone put down a deposit! Small finders fee and he will take them on the lake and demo it for me. Very cool since I would have to travel 40 minutes and pay to launch on a very busy lake and they have a small test lake right next to them. Probably saves me 3-5 hours of my time!

All in all a pretty good situation for everyone involved.

Pictures coming soon!!

 

[Lynkage]

We just got a 2020 A24 with the M5di engine and absolutely love it. Upgraded from a 2011 SX240 and love the space on it. Much better ride and control in the water and super easy to dial in the wake options. Yamaha definitely offers some good bang for the buck but these surf boats are a completely different animal

I can't wait to get out and try this bad boy!! I'm glad you like yours and yes the wave...... My Yamaha was a really good boat and I would not change the fact that I started with one. They are good boats!!

 

[d_coyne1984]

I finally got my "silent stinger" back and tested it over the 4th weekend. It definitely quieted the boat down and very happy with the performance, I can't say the same about the guy I hired to build it. He fucked with the design, then charged me to fix it and now it looks kind of shitty. I was all in about $1k with parts and labor.

But it works great!

 

[Canuckjetboater]

I went to the boat show today in Birmingham and crawled over a lot of boats, mainly the surf boats though. I think this may be the next type of boat I end up getting unless there's some kind of real surf advancement in jet boats in the next few years. A lot of the wake boats are way out of my price range and well into six figures but the budget wake boats are something I could see myself getting into one day.

For me the new Moomba Max really is an amazing machine for the money IMHO. I spoke with a very nice and patient gentleman who works at the factory in TN and he was glad to go over all the details about the boat and explained a lot of the things I had wanted to know about v-drives. You can just see there is a lot of thought put into these boats and they certainly have a Supra feel to them at about half the price. The A2 tower is spring assisted and counter balanced so one person can take them down. There are no bolts to screw in to lock the tower . Just rotate the tower locking clamps on the inner sides and it will fold down inside the cockpit with the bimini folded up. The bimini unforuntaely doesn't cover a lot behind in the cockpit so this was kind of a bummer compared to the bimini style on our Yamaha boat towers.

View attachment 67836
View attachment 67842
View attachment 67844

Something I did not realize is Moomba boats have the Supra heritage and share the same lower hull design. The Supra boats have the newer Flow 3.0 surf system where as Moomba has the Flow 2.0 for this year. I compared both the bottom hulls out back and they looked damn near identical. Supras are known for a good, dry ride even in rough water so this was good to see!..

View attachment 67843
View attachment 67841

It felt near every bit as nice as the Supra SE450 that was sitting across from it. The seats were thick, well stitched materials and were super comfy. What I really liked about the Max was the extreme deep storage all throughout the boat, hence it's name. The rear lockers seemed deep enough my 8 year old daughter could have stood straight up in there and I still could have closed the hatch! I wished I took a pic of how deep the rear lockers were it was unbelievable! I'd say about 4' deep storage if not more lol. The engine hatch had a deep plastic tub you can place towels or whatever one to heat them up for cold days. It was equipped with the Raptor 400 engine by Indmar and they also make a 440 version. This one was already equipped with the larger prop for surfing.

The bottoms of the cockpit storage areas are super deep as well with nice touches like a rubber mat material at the bottom so there's no worry of placing something in there wet and getting the carpet soaked. The rest is finished in carpet but also all the edges are finished inside every compartment. The fiberglass has a rolled inner edge so there is no snagging from rough, unfinished edges like in our boats. It's little details like that go a long ways to me when shopping for a next boat. This image does not do justice how deep the side storage was...

View attachment 67846

The tech you can put in this boat also carries over from the Supra boats. In addition to the Flow 2.0 surf system you can also get the AutoWake 2.0 with Predictive Wake system which measures every 10th of a second the pitch and roll attitude of the boat and adjust the ballast accordingly. So if anyone moves while you're surfing the system will compensate automatically giving you a more consistent wave every time no matter the load or people placement. Sitting at the helm the display is offset and I really liked that on the Max as it gives you a very clear and straight path looking ahead. All of the controls, toggles and buttons felt of great quality like they would last. The captain's chair was easy to get in and out of unlike my 192 that sits much lower and has some cutouts that make it harder to get in and out of. This seat was taller and had a more traditional L-shape but also had enough boltster to hold you in and it felt very comfy. The flip-up bolster was wide and thick which gave a nice support...

View attachment 67837

Over on the other side I really loved how deep the glove box was and also that you can access it from the side access door. I also liked that the sides were padded and stitched nicely which on some wake boat brands its just bare gelcoat like on our boats. I prefer it padded for a nicer look but to also keep the gelcoat from getting scratches from boards or people...

View attachment 67838

The spotters seat back hatch is gas assisted and swings up to access the batteries and battery switch. The amps and battery tender were also mounted in this area. I liked that you can access this storage area even from the bow which also had gas assisted seat backs that swing up.. This is looking from the bow area...

View attachment 67839

This boat has a beam of 102" so it felt very roomy and wide like our Yamaha boats do. The bow of this boat is not quite traditional bow shape but not quite a pickle fork design either, kind of a mix in between. It had an optional bow filler on this boat, with me at 5'10" sitting in the bow corner I wasn't quite able to fully extend my legs straight out but almost. However the width and wrap around padded seating still felt plenty comfy if I were hanging out up there all day and it still felt plenty huge. The padding of the cushions on this boat really stood out to me compared to some of the other boats.

View attachment 67840

I gotta say that for the price of starting out at $60k well equipped with a tandem axle trailer, this really makes the Yamaha "Wake" specific models just seem overpriced if you're buying a boat for watersports. There is enough room on this boat for plenty of hanging out, even at the rear as we all like to enjoy on our Yamaha swim platforms. This really makes upgrading to a 21-24' jetboat for surfing not really an ideal situation for me. One thing I really love about our boats is the lack of maintenance, winterizing, low draft, etc but at the same time I can see myself forgoing those things in favor for a boat that would require a little more maintenance, would need winterizing, has a draft of 27.5" if it has storage for days and will make a hell of a surf wave without a ton of fuss, regardless of people moving around. It just seems like a real winner for the price. I wouldn't be able to get a boat like this until we likely move or I would need to pay for storage or at a marina so there's extra cost involved with a boat like this but man it just seems like a ton of fun can be had without having to stuff bags in all your storage or across the seats on our boats. I hate to say it but I may go to the dark side one day I can swing a boat like this. I thought this was an awesome boat that has no wood, craftsmanship was oozing out of it for not a ton of money compared to say a 212 X or even the more expensive 242 X. I'd likely need to upgrade the rear end ratio in my truck to get me by and to pull a boat this big (boat and trailer are 5,700 lbs) but I plan on upgrading tow rigs in a few years. That new redesigned Dodge Ram sure would be nice to find a one-owner used one in a few years!

View attachment 67847

View attachment 67845

@haknslash .....as a former dedicated slalom skier (competitive level) I started with a California J Craft with a big Merc behind it. Then came a Moomba then a Tige. They were all awesome ski boats - the latter two also great wake boats. Personally, I'd buy the Moomba unless you are top tier competitive qualified. That said - never, never , never compare any of them them to a Yamaha Jet Boat if talking price. Buying a wake boat is just the BEGINNING of your expenses. They are hellacious on gas. Even with the best maintenance (my friend's marina - Supra dealer - has two dedicated factory trained transmission specialists on year round contract - guess why that is?) These boats are geared for super pulling power at low speeds PERIOD. If you have the $$$$$ great for you - you'll need them! The cost of use and maintenance of a Yamaha Jet Boat is a total joke compared to running a dedicated wake boat. Plus my SX195 will beat the pants off any wake boat out there - in acceleration. Come back after a two seasons of use and tell me different, I'd be interested in your perspective. Cheers MT

 

[anmut]

As a former dedicated slalom skier I started with a California J Craft with a big Merc behind it. Then came a Moomba then a Tige. They were all awesome ski boats the latter two also great wake boats. Personally, I'd buy the Moomba unless you are top tier competitive qualified. That said - never, never , never compare any of them them to a Yamaha jet boat if talking price. Buying a wake boat is just the BEGINNING of your expenses. They are hellacious on gas. Even with the best maintenance (my friend's marina has two dedicated factory trained transmission specialists on year round contract - guess why that is). These boats are geared for super pulling power at low speeds PERIOD. If you have the $$$$$ great for you - you'll need them! The cost of use and maintenance of a Yamaha Jet Boat is a total joke compared to running a dedicated wake boat. Plus my SX195 will beat the pants off any wake boat out there - in acceleration. Come back after a two seasons of use and tell me different, I'd be interested in your perspective. Cheers MT

As I've been half considering taking a peek at one, the biggest thing I can't get around is the absolutely worthless reverse handling of an inboard or v-drive. How could a 100k+ boat have so much technology in it and STILL not be able to maneuver in reverse - you would think there would be a tech fix for that issue, at that price range.

 

[bthessel]

So has anyone ridden in or known anyone that owns one of the new "surf" style boats with the forward facing outdrive from Volvo? A dealer near me has a really good looking Crownline 265 surf with that setup and it seems appealing but I am having a hard time finding any info. My big worry would be what kind of damage they prop being exposed takes if you hit a tree branch or something in the water.

 

[Canuckjetboater]

As I've been half considering taking a peek at one, the biggest thing I can't get around is the absolutely worthless reverse handling of an inboard or v-drive. How could a 100k+ boat have so much technology in it and STILL not be able to maneuver in reverse - you would think there would be a tech fix for that issue, at that price range.

@anmut agreed. These boats are designed to hold true tournament speed with slalom skiers, like me, at 6'6" and 220 pounds on a 41 off line pulling to round a buoy while maintaining a straight line or to create and hold a perfect curl tidal wave for surfers.....backing-up is an afterthought and if anyone has to ask the price or purchasing and maintaining one of these they are at the wrong showroom

 

[Lynkage]

That's Great and that sucks all at the same time!

 

[anmut]

So has anyone ridden in or known anyone that owns one of the new "surf" style boats with the forward facing outdrive from Volvo? A dealer near me has a really good looking Crownline 265 surf with that setup and it seems appealing but I am having a hard time finding any info. My big worry would be what kind of damage they prop being exposed takes if you hit a tree branch or something in the water.

I "lol" everytime I see a picture of one because it looks like a child put a lego boat model together wrong... honestly, it's a neat idea, but you're still buying an IO, and now you're buying an IO that runs deeper than a normal IO and goes nose first into everything. If you're only, and always, on deep water, I'd say I would try it. Otherwise, pass.

 

[bthessel]

I "lol" everytime I see a picture of one because it looks like a child put a lego boat model together wrong... honestly, it's a neat idea, but you're still buying an IO, and now you're buying an IO that runs deeper than a normal IO and goes nose first into everything. If you're only, and always, on deep water, I'd say I would try it. Otherwise, pass.

I know what you mean on the looks. The lake we boat on is deep with steep banks so I wouldn't worry about running into the bottom rather the occasional log in the water. You hear of 6-10 boats a year doing serious outdrive damage due to logs and I feel like the forward facing prop would just act as a hook the catch even more, but have nothing factual I can find to validate that.

 

[d_coyne1984]

So has anyone ridden in or known anyone that owns one of the new "surf" style boats with the forward facing outdrive from Volvo? A dealer near me has a really good looking Crownline 265 surf with that setup and it seems appealing but I am having a hard time finding any info. My big worry would be what kind of damage they prop being exposed takes if you hit a tree branch or something in the water.

They are surfable, but are best for young kids just learning. They don't get a ton of push for larger adults which will make learning any tricks that much harder. They are fun to drive though.

 

[haknslash]

@haknslash .....as a former dedicated slalom skier (competitive level) I started with a California J Craft with a big Merc behind it. Then came a Moomba then a Tige. They were all awesome ski boats - the latter two also great wake boats. Personally, I'd buy the Moomba unless you are top tier competitive qualified. That said - never, never , never compare any of them them to a Yamaha Jet Boat if talking price. Buying a wake boat is just the BEGINNING of your expenses. They are hellacious on gas. Even with the best maintenance (my friend's marina - Supra dealer - has two dedicated factory trained transmission specialists on year round contract - guess why that is?) These boats are geared for super pulling power at low speeds PERIOD. If you have the $$$$$ great for you - you'll need them! The cost of use and maintenance of a Yamaha Jet Boat is a total joke compared to running a dedicated wake boat. Plus my SX195 will beat the pants off any wake boat out there - in acceleration. Come back after a two seasons of use and tell me different, I'd be interested in your perspective. Cheers MT

Not sure if you've read through the whole thread but we ended up buying the Moomba Max. It has been great and I can say that after 2 seasons with it I would not go back to a jet. At least not if surfing is at all high on the priority list. My 192 did 49 mph and we don't miss the speed at all. As you know, these wake boats are not made for speed they're made for pulling a bunch of weight. We cruise all the time 23-30 mph or so and it's fine for us and caring about speed just doesn't matter when you drive one of these things, at least for me it isn't.

As for fuel efficiency my Raptor 400 and heavier boat is more fuel efficient than the 192 ever was. I can fill up 65 gallons and enjoy several weekends worth of cruising, surfing etc and not have to fill-up where as the 192 would eat 30 gallons in no time if driving it in the "fun mode" and you can forget fuel range if you add any ballast to a jet. Maybe fuel efficiency was bad back in your day of skiing but today's modern V8's and sophisticated hull designs allow these big behemoths of wake boats to be pretty fuel efficient, well except for a Malibu or Axis. You would be surprised given the speeds you cruise on a vdrive and can effortless hold speeds vs the jet which by nature is not going to be nearly as efficient. My wallet can certainly tell and I even run midgrade in this boat vs regular 87 on previous jet. You have to run premium on your SVHO engine so I know that thing drinks it lol.

Maintenance for me hasn't been a factor yet because when I bought my Max I got it during boat sales which also came with a 2 year free maintenance program with my dealer. After this year I'll be doing maintenance myself which is not much more than what you do on a jet in terms of cost. Yea I'll buy an impeller every year just to be safe and yea I'll be draining water from the engine to winterize but it's not much more than that based on cost and time. Thankfully the Max has super deep 5' lockers that you can literally get down in there without effort to work on or around the engine and it has large open vdrive access.

In the end my expenses have been VERY minimal going to vdrive. I guess i could chalk up an expense of now having a storage unit monthly cost instead of stowing my 192 in my garage but I'm also not towing anymore and I have 3 ramps within 5 mins of my storage facility. However the cost of the storage unit is less than it cost me to tow with my F150, so it's actually saving me money plus I got 40' worth of storage compared to like 20' in my garage lol. Aside form the higher payment of a newer and more expensive boat, it really has sort of saved me in the long run because it's minimal effort to fill ballast, no effort to drive to lake now that I'm not towing, fuel costs or cheaper and further in between fill-up's, ride quality is night and day better and overall the vdrive just works for us. We love it!!

 

[haknslash]

As I've been half considering taking a peek at one, the biggest thing I can't get around is the absolutely worthless reverse handling of an inboard or v-drive. How could a 100k+ boat have so much technology in it and STILL not be able to maneuver in reverse - you would think there would be a tech fix for that issue, at that price range.

The reason they don't have amazing reverse handling is because the rudder is what steers the boat. In order for it to have anyt effect it has to has water forced past it, much the same as a jet must have thrust in order to steer. The problem with the rudder being non-existent is because around docks you will never get it fast enough for the rudder to have influence on steering, unlike when going in forward the prop's thrust is in direct path of the rudder. Learning to reverse in these boats is just something you learn like a skill. Just like learning to control the wandering of a jetboat with minimal thrust being applied around a dock. You learn in a jet how oyu need thrust and you learn in a vdrive what direction your prop rotation is (most pull to the right when in reverse). This is a skill you learn and to this day I do not dock on the port side unless I have tons of room on the starboard. It's just something you learn. I can spin my Max in nearly the length of itself just by going into and out of forward and reverse with minimal throttle effort simple due to prop rotation effect. I have videos on my channel showing how to use this to your advantage and crapwalk the stern into the dock. Before long it's natural and no biggie.

As far as tech goes there is a solution out there. some of the ultra high-end boats come with stern thrusters which can swing the stern in any direction no issue. There are aftermarket stern thrusters as well they are nice but also $$$$. That being said would i love to have them? Hell yea but are they needed or required? No.

 

[haknslash]

So has anyone ridden in or known anyone that owns one of the new "surf" style boats with the forward facing outdrive from Volvo? A dealer near me has a really good looking Crownline 265 surf with that setup and it seems appealing but I am having a hard time finding any info. My big worry would be what kind of damage they prop being exposed takes if you hit a tree branch or something in the water.

The forward facing surf boats won't put out near the same level of wave as a surf or wake boat. so if getting one for surfing then you're going to better off a surf boat. But if you like the idea of having an outdrive and also want to make an ok wave then those are appealing to those kinds of people. As far as worry about hitting something I can say I've seen plenty of prop strikes on the vdrive groups lol it comes with the territory but I can say for certain I'd rather wreck a $600 prop than I would whatever the thousands of dollars for a destroyed outdrive lol.