Tow Vehicle Dilemma...

[AZMark]

I am not changing any story. The argument was that Toyota's are more reliable. I was responding to the counter-argument logic.

I am not saying Toyota's are any better or worse, just that they are par for the course in today's world. The OP will be plenty happy with the truck, and he probably would have been no matter his choice.

We were talking about the variance in resale values for a bit but I agree with your general statement.

 

[BlkGS]

Weight reduction will be a major factor i am sure.
The new tundra while seems like a rocket got a 7 to 800lb Weight reduction so similar power numbers with a big diet makes it faster and more fuel efficient

Weight reduction can be a double edged sword though, depends how you do it. Ford did it by adding a ton of cost by going aluminum body. But a lot of times, they do it by making lighter and weaker components. Control arms, sway bars, frames, etc.

It's kinds crazy to think that a fully loaded f150 is right at about 5k pounds, my tbss is like 5200 pounds on any given day.

 

[Neutron]

Weight reduction can be a double edged sword though, depends how you do it. Ford did it by adding a ton of cost by going aluminum body. But a lot of times, they do it by making lighter and weaker components. Control arms, sway bars, frames, etc.

It's kinds crazy to think that a fully loaded f150 is right at about 5k pounds, my tbss is like 5200 pounds on any given day.

The weight savings on the new tundra mostly came from composite bed and a much lighter engine so it balanced out pretty good

 

[BlkGS]

The weight savings on the new tundra mostly came from composite bed and a much lighter engine so it balanced out pretty good

Honestly, I had kinda assumed they were already using the composite bed on tundra. Tacoma has had it for a looong time. Probably not gonna end up being work truck grade, but fine for the occasional home depot run.

 

[Neutron]

2022 first year for composite bed on tundra.
Supposedly they dropped an engine from a decent height and it didn't damage it....... probably a 1/4 scale model v8 lol

 

[zpaul]

I miss our Tahoe for purely sentimental reasons. But, I do miss it. It was the first vehicle we purchased for reasons other than filling the need for transportation. However, I'm enjoying the new Tundra quite a bit. It pulls the boat with ease, it's a pleasure to drive, tons of creature comforts with the 1794 edition trim level, it connects to my phone in a way that only my wife's RAV4 would. I do think I would have been equally as happy with a RAM, GMC, Chevy, and so on as I am with this had one come along that fit our situation as well as this one did. My comfort level with Toyota is higher than most anything else due to having had two RAV4s, a corolla, and two work truck Tundras so far. All of which were as reliable as the day is long. I can say this, had the RAM with the towing package and rear end not smelled like an ashtray, and that dealership's employees not been rude, there's a very good chance we'd have gone with the RAM that night and never looked further. But, things played out in such a way that we went Team Toyota, and I'm 100% happy with the results. And, if I ever need to move 25k to 35k pounds of hay bails, @Babin Farms might take pity on me and swing by with his GMC 2500 HD.

At the end of the day, I feel comfortable pulling our AR250 in it. So much so that we may attempt an end of the summer season road trip away from our home lake. After experiencing how the boat and the Tahoe matched up, that would have never been possible. Just the 10 miles from storage to the lake were horribly stressful. Now, that's no longer an issue. No matter the brand of vehicle, we've achieved our ultimate goal and couldn't be happier.

Now, I get to start tinkering with it and adding accessories. Thinking of a Decked Tool Drawer System because I miss the 'inside' rear storage of the Tahoe, and a Toyota TRD Rear Anti-Sway Bar. My son was kind enough to set me up with a set of WeatherTech mats that should be arriving tomorrow.

TRD sway bar is the best mode on Tundra period. Got one for $125 and installed on my driveway. Dealer wanted $400?!?!?
you’ll see huge difference.

 

[King]

TRD sway bar is the best mode on Tundra period. Got one for $125 and installed on my driveway. Dealer wanted $400?!?!?
you’ll see huge difference.

That's what I've been reading. Most everyone's saying that it's damn near impossible to find a bigger bang for the buck modification that putting one on. Were you able to experience a before and after in installing yours when it comes to towing your boat?

 

[zpaul]

That's what I've been reading. Most everyone's saying that it's damn near impossible to find a bigger bang for the buck modification that putting one on. Were you able to experience a before and after in installing yours when it comes to towing your boat?

I drove my truck for 6 months and then after reading forums put one one and difference was very noticeable. Truck drove like it is on rails.
Didn’t have much experience towing with it. At that point Tundra was my weekend Home Depot truck

 

[BlkGS]

Big believer in the stiffest swaybars you can find here. They use garbage ones on trucks because they limit wheel travel and the industry seems to fink every truck goes Boulder climbing.

 

[King]

Big believer in the stiffest swaybars you can find here. They use garbage ones on trucks because they limit wheel travel and the industry seems to fink every truck goes Boulder climbing.

Don't see any trips to MOAB in the near future. Perhaps in my younger days.

 

[Neutron]

Big believer in the stiffest swaybars you can find here. They use garbage ones on trucks because they limit wheel travel and the industry seems to fink every truck goes Boulder climbing.

The TRD front one is s much improved one also. Its solid instead of hollow like the factory front one.
I still have the stock one in front but did add the trd rear one. Where i noticed the improvement was going over a train track hump that was in a turn. The ass end didn't want to jump sideways any more

 

[DogDadDave]

2022 first year for composite bed on tundra.
Supposedly they dropped an engine from a decent height and it didn't damage it....... probably a 1/4 scale model v8 lol

They've been doing what is technically a composite bed in the Tacoma since 2005. The material itself will take a much bigger impact than a normal steel bed would.

 

[2kwik4u]

Is this the same JD Power you are referring to?

https://www.hotcars.com/why-jd-power-ranking-complete-nonsense/

But based on the premise here, that people don't really know what a good vehicle is, how can we know that what you claim is true? That Domestics have really upped their game?

First things first. That is an opinion piece, nothing more, nothing less. That last paragraph has the key word; believe.



Sure you can be skeptical, sure you can say the reviews aren't worth a crap. I suggest posting alternative data instead of opinions about the validity of the data presented. Without a second source, how are we to judge outside of anecdotal evidence, and if that's where we're going to base our decisions, well, lets just call it agree to disagree because it's all subjective from there.

Secondly, you're acting like I hurt your feelings here........If that's the case I didn't mean to. I'm just trying to state my thoughts, for better or worse they aren't in alignment with yours. It's not a personal attack, just a difference of opinions.

And finally, my thoughts reworded for clarity,

You're kind of missing the bigger picture here. It's not the Toyota's aren't reliable, or there is a ruse afoot to convince everyone that they are reliable. They are. They're excellent vehicles that will serve people many wonderful miles of ownership. So are GMs, and Hyundais, Hondas, and a bunch of other brands. They're all excellent machines with excellent quality and reliability.

My point is that the quality gap between a Toyota and most other manufacturers is not as great as the sell prices would suggest. People buy for all kinds of reasons, and buying is what generates demand. The demand for a Toyota is higher, not because it has higher measurable quality, but because it has a higher perceived quality. This distinction is important, and central to the point.

The domestic automakers have increased quality faster than public perception has changed. This leads to the higher demand, and subsequent higher prices.

 

[BlkGS]

Perceived quality is, in many cases more important. Companies spend a lot more money to market tonyou that they have a high quality than they do in actually building in quality. It's actually a real problem, marketing functions get larger budgets to sell perceived quality, while manufacturing and engineering are pushed to be more efficient, use lower cost suppliers, etc to improve profits.

It's way cheaper to market good quality than to build good quality, and consumers respond to the marketing better.

 

[King]

The TRD front one is s much improved one also. Its solid instead of hollow like the factory front one.
I still have the stock one in front but did add the trd rear one. Where i noticed the improvement was going over a train track hump that was in a turn. The ass end didn't want to jump sideways any more

I was looking at the front one also. More for the prestige of having the red TRD one. But, did not know that the stock bar was hollow. Thanks for the heads up on that.

 

[BlkGS]

I was looking at the front one also. More for the prestige of having the red TRD one. But, did not know that the stock bar was hollow. Thanks for the heads up on that.

Hollow bars are pretty common, more so in racing. You can get the same stiffness for a lower weight with a larger bar that's hollow.

Going bigger and from hollow to solid is where it's at.

 

[2kwik4u]

Hollow bars are pretty common, more so in racing. You can get the same stiffness for a lower weight with a larger bar that's hollow.

Going bigger and from hollow to solid is where it's at.

The solid doesn't help much in torsional stiffness honestly. Diameter increase is the majority of your benefit there. Shorter lever arm on the end also helps.

I'll dig up the formulas here in a minute.

Solid bars are more robust from a stress cycling standpoint though, and the weight penalty is worth it on the street IMO.

 

[Ohio]

First things first. That is an opinion piece, nothing more, nothing less. That last paragraph has the key word; believe.

View attachment 187704

Sure you can be skeptical, sure you can say the reviews aren't worth a crap. I suggest posting alternative data instead of opinions about the validity of the data presented. Without a second source, how are we to judge outside of anecdotal evidence, and if that's where we're going to base our decisions, well, lets just call it agree to disagree because it's all subjective from there.

Secondly, you're acting like I hurt your feelings here........If that's the case I didn't mean to. I'm just trying to state my thoughts, for better or worse they aren't in alignment with yours. It's not a personal attack, just a difference of opinions.

And finally, my thoughts reworded for clarity,

You're kind of missing the bigger picture here. It's not the Toyota's aren't reliable, or there is a ruse afoot to convince everyone that they are reliable. They are. They're excellent vehicles that will serve people many wonderful miles of ownership. So are GMs, and Hyundais, Hondas, and a bunch of other brands. They're all excellent machines with excellent quality and reliability.

My point is that the quality gap between a Toyota and most other manufacturers is not as great as the sell prices would suggest. People buy for all kinds of reasons, and buying is what generates demand. The demand for a Toyota is higher, not because it has higher measurable quality, but because it has a higher perceived quality. This distinction is important, and central to the point.

The domestic automakers have increased quality faster than public perception has changed. This leads to the higher demand, and subsequent higher prices.

My feelings are hurt? lol I'm not sure where you could get that. It is well known that JD Power rankings are not impartial. Manufacturers pay for them. Not to mention they are all about how reliable a vehicle is in its infancy.

 

[Ohio]

And Home Depot sells more ryobi crap by quantity than it does Milwaukee. Does this make them superior?
You’re changing the story here.

I mean how much Bud light do people buy?

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

And Home Depot sells more ryobi crap by quantity than it does Milwaukee. Does this make them superior?
You’re changing the story here.

You can pooh-pooh Ryobi all you want, but I have been very pleased with my Ryobi lawn tools. My mowers (upgraded to a 20" brushless from my 4 year old 13" mower - only replaced it as the old one was to small for trimming around the new house), blower, and weed wacker have all worked flawlessly over the last 4+ years.

Jim