Tow Vehicle Dilemma...

[BlkGS]

I remember when that came out and was shocked to see how far Honda had fallen. They had always been known for stone cold reliability, albeit very boring like Toyota. There's been similar studies come out since that I've stumbled across and have always been surprised. Generally now a days I think most cars are relatively reliable, if taken care of. If I wanted something boring but reliable I'd still lean towards Toyota or Honda. Largely just for old school reputation, and nothing else. Granted I've owned a butt load of Honda's and not had any issues with nearly all of them approaching 200k miles. My F150 I feel would fall apart before 200k. LOL! Granted it is also used harder and the components are pushed to their edge just based on their design. Sort of like Yamaha and Seadoo. You want reliability you go with Yamaha. You want cutting edge technology with every spare ounce of power squeezed out you go with seadoo. However, you sacrifice reliability with that choice.

Kind of a interesting point about how hard the truck gets used vs a car.

You don't see many work tundra. People who depend on their truck as a tool every day tend to go Ford or.chevy from.what I see. Partially due to attractive fleet pricing, sure, but the operating cost would offset that. So if tundra were truly that much better, you'd see them dominant in work trucks. Yet instead, tundra are virtually non existent in work trucks, restricted to largely one man outfits, and instead you see toyotas do well in the low impact commuter car segment.

Food for thought.

 

[Babin Farms]

Give me a Tundra that can do this repeatedly and I'll consider one.

 

[adrianp89]

Jeeps are unique, there are multiple pick ups on the other hand.

You seem to be blinded by your brand loyalness. Reliability data was posted but you seemed to toss that out the window too. I will play your argument then - consumers only buy and want what is reliable. Then why do people not buy Tundra's? The sales numbers are clear, even with a brand new model they can't even do 1/2 of what the big 3 are selling. I guess Toyota just make enough because they don't want to make more money?

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-pickup-truck-sales-figures-by-model/

In 2021 they couldn't even pull in 1/5th of what a single Big 3 manufactuer sells: Sales: Full-size Pickup Trucks Have a Bad Year in 2021 – GM Trucks Are Still On Top

I remember a few years ago that Toyota had such a bad problem with their dashes cracking that they replaced like 3 million dashes free of charge.

 

[King]

Give me a Tundra that can do this repeatedly and I'll consider one.
View attachment 187648

How much weight is that?

 

[Babin Farms]

How much weight is that?

Ummm, a LOT!! 2k/each bale and a roughly 5k trailer


I do haul smaller loads though

 

[King]

Ummm, a LOT!! 2k/each bale and a roughly 5k trailer

DAMN! Impressive!

Yep, you're in a whole different league with that!

 

[BlkGS]

Give me a Tundra that can do this repeatedly and I'll consider one.
View attachment 187648

I get putting off mowing your yard but JEEZ!

 

[AZMark]

All that reliability data is just surveys and they only go out a few years. If you think a survey is more meaningful than people putting their money where their mouth is then I’ve got some polls for you to read and we can just skip on elections.

 

[Neutron]

You seem to be blinded by your brand loyalness. Reliability data was posted but you seemed to toss that out the window too. I will play your argument then - consumers only buy and want what is reliable. Then why do people not buy Tundra's? The sales numbers are clear, even with a brand new model they can't even do 1/2 of what the big 3 are selling. I guess Toyota just make enough because they don't want to make more money?

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-pickup-truck-sales-figures-by-model/

In 2021 they couldn't even pull in 1/5th of what a single Big 3 manufactuer sells: Sales: Full-size Pickup Trucks Have a Bad Year in 2021 – GM Trucks Are Still On Top

I remember a few years ago that Toyota had such a bad problem with their dashes cracking that they replaced like 3 million dashes free of charge.

I guess giving 3 million people a new free dash on up to 10 year old cars was a bad bad thing.
You can pull up bad or defective things in any make, its the company that does something about it out of warranty that makes the customer happy

 

[adrianp89]

I guess giving 3 million people a new free dash on up to 10 year old cars was a bad bad thing.
You can pull up bad or defective things in any make, its the company that does something about it out of warranty that makes the customer happy

Agreed. It was just an example of a wide-spread problem from Toyota.

 

[adrianp89]

All that reliability data is just surveys and they only go out a few years. If you think a survey is more meaningful than people putting their money where their mouth is then I’ve got some polls for you to read and we can just skip on elections.

As pointed out - people put their money in the Big 3.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

There ya go. Two from this morning at work, and one from yesterday at the lake.



View attachment 186913View attachment 186914View attachment 186915

How are you liking your new Tundra so far?

 

[Neutron]

As pointed out - people put their money in the Big 3.

Lots of people put their money in foolish things. That doesn't mean anything. Just because someone always buys the same brand over and over again doesn't make it a smart decision.
People say negative crap on Yamaha all the time, does that make our decision wrong.
We like Yamaha, scarab, etc.. so we buy it some buying something else will say we are wrong.

You can crap on any and all makes that you find faults in all you want. Doesn't make your point anymore valid than someone elses who doesn't agree with it.

This debate is as sided as cobras/ tvs and it has gone on much longer.

Toyota isnt in the business to sell just trucks or the most trucks. They crushed the small/midsized truck market with the Taco for years.
Only doing full sized trucks since 2000. 22 years o my, The big 3 have been at it for how long....of course they have brand loyalty and fleets lining up for them.
Toyota isn't going for that market i can assure you.

 

[BlkGS]

My take, Toyota makes good vehicles for commuting. They make a few vehicles that are really robust, because they basically have been tweaking them.for 2 decades vs big changes. When you build an engine and transmission and running gear for 20.years, you pretty much figure it out. That's why the Lexus GX460 sells so well - it's old, and reliable due to toyota figuring out exactly how to make it.

That all said, most people don't really use Tacoma for truck stuff. Tacoma is like maverick or Santa Cruz, a sedan with an open trunk. Tacoma suck for doing real truck stuff, but work great for the guy who just wants to.put fishing poles in the back or have a truck for appearances. If you tried to do regular towing of significant weight with a tacoma (or current ranger or maverick or Santa Cruz - Colorado and frontier are the only maybe robust enough trucks for this imo), it'd fall apart.

4runner and gx460 could probably do it, but I've heard they're not that great to tow with.

 

[Neutron]

My take, Toyota makes good vehicles for commuting. They make a few vehicles that are really robust, because they basically have been tweaking them.for 2 decades vs big changes. When you build an engine and transmission and running gear for 20.years, you pretty much figure it out. That's why the Lexus GX460 sells so well - it's old, and reliable due to toyota figuring out exactly how to make it.

That all said, most people don't really use Tacoma for truck stuff. Tacoma is like maverick or Santa Cruz, a sedan with an open trunk. Tacoma suck for doing real truck stuff, but work great for the guy who just wants to.put fishing poles in the back or have a truck for appearances. If you tried to do regular towing of significant weight with a tacoma (or current ranger or maverick or Santa Cruz - Colorado and frontier are the only maybe robust enough trucks for this imo), it'd fall apart.

4runner and gx460 could probably do it, but I've heard they're not that great to tow with.

The word i got from our rep is that the 4runner/gx460 is getting its redesign by next year but we heard that from them on the tundra for 2 years.
My guess is the gx will get the twin turbo v6 and the 4runner will get the 3.5 from the taco

 

[AZMark]

As pointed out - people put their money in the Big 3.

And Home Depot sells more ryobi crap by quantity than it does Milwaukee. Does this make them superior?
You’re changing the story here.

 

[BlkGS]

The word i got from our rep is that the 4runner/gx460 is getting its redesign by next year but we heard that from them on the tundra for 2 years.
My guess is the gx will get the twin turbo v6 and the 4runner will get the 3.5 from the taco

Makes sense, but probably not gonna go over well. The Tacoma 3.5 is a pile of garbage, no power, it's gonna really struggle in a 4runner unless it goes on a serious weight reduction plan.

Gx460's real issue is the platform. It's a large vehicle with like, no space inside. The cargo area is small and sits high in the vehicle (like a 4" lip when you open the stupid barn door). It'd br a very nice vehicle woth a zf 8 speed, the 4.6L v8 retained, and platform upgrades.

All that said, I think Toyota should just can it and make an off road variant of highlander. Call it Highlander 4runner to really piss people off.

 

[adrianp89]

And Home Depot sells more ryobi crap by quantity than it does Milwaukee. Does this make them superior?
You’re changing the story here.

I am not changing any story. The argument was that Toyota's are more reliable. I was responding to the counter-argument logic.

I am not saying Toyota's are any better or worse, just that they are par for the course in today's world. The OP will be plenty happy with the truck, and he probably would have been no matter his choice.

 

[King]

How are you liking your new Tundra so far?

I miss our Tahoe for purely sentimental reasons. But, I do miss it. It was the first vehicle we purchased for reasons other than filling the need for transportation. However, I'm enjoying the new Tundra quite a bit. It pulls the boat with ease, it's a pleasure to drive, tons of creature comforts with the 1794 edition trim level, it connects to my phone in a way that only my wife's RAV4 would. I do think I would have been equally as happy with a RAM, GMC, Chevy, and so on as I am with this had one come along that fit our situation as well as this one did. My comfort level with Toyota is higher than most anything else due to having had two RAV4s, a corolla, and two work truck Tundras so far. All of which were as reliable as the day is long. I can say this, had the RAM with the towing package and rear end not smelled like an ashtray, and that dealership's employees not been rude, there's a very good chance we'd have gone with the RAM that night and never looked further. But, things played out in such a way that we went Team Toyota, and I'm 100% happy with the results. And, if I ever need to move 25k to 35k pounds of hay bails, @Babin Farms might take pity on me and swing by with his GMC 2500 HD.

At the end of the day, I feel comfortable pulling our AR250 in it. So much so that we may attempt an end of the summer season road trip away from our home lake. After experiencing how the boat and the Tahoe matched up, that would have never been possible. Just the 10 miles from storage to the lake were horribly stressful. Now, that's no longer an issue. No matter the brand of vehicle, we've achieved our ultimate goal and couldn't be happier.

Now, I get to start tinkering with it and adding accessories. Thinking of a Decked Tool Drawer System because I miss the 'inside' rear storage of the Tahoe, and a Toyota TRD Rear Anti-Sway Bar. My son was kind enough to set me up with a set of WeatherTech mats that should be arriving tomorrow.

 

[Neutron]

Makes sense, but probably not gonna go over well. The Tacoma 3.5 is a pile of garbage, no power, it's gonna really struggle in a 4runner unless it goes on a serious weight reduction plan.

Gx460's real issue is the platform. It's a large vehicle with like, no space inside. The cargo area is small and sits high in the vehicle (like a 4" lip when you open the stupid barn door). It'd br a very nice vehicle woth a zf 8 speed, the 4.6L v8 retained, and platform upgrades.

All that said, I think Toyota should just can it and make an off road variant of highlander. Call it Highlander 4runner to really piss people off.

Weight reduction will be a major factor i am sure.
The new tundra while seems like a rocket got a 7 to 800lb Weight reduction so similar power numbers with a big diet makes it faster and more fuel efficient