Yamaha FSH 190 Concerns

[Pcity1019]

Hmmmmm.. I know a lot of people who have Yamaha Jet boats and that's not a common issue...... and at only 80 hours and Yamaha refusing a warranty?..... What is Yamaha's response? Not implying that it is not a defect, but seems like there is more to the story...The only time I ever heard of that occurring is when someone put on a sub-par aftermarket impeller...

I never modded the boat. Yamahas response is it is out of warranty. Engine warranty is one year. I purchased it in 2016. It is a mess to say the least.

 

[Pcity1019]

He has another thread going on, this looks like double posting

https://jetboaters.net/threads/do-not-buy-yamaha-fsh.23528/

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It is. I am trying to warn you all of a problem that Yamaha is unwilling to address.

 

[Pcity1019]

I thought we addressed double/triple/sextuple posts last week,

We don't know this member, we don't know the maintenance or frequency that it was done, I can't believe a bearing grenade without any signs, no noise, no vibration, nothing to give you cause to say "I need to stop boating and get this checked out",

I would highly recommend the Yamaha and FSH to any of my family or friends,

the history of this motor/pump in boat and jetskis is no comparison to his post,

Interesting because this is not the first time I have heard of this problem. Not as sudden as mine was but completely totaling the boat I have. I did make another post to warn people. You may not know me but I am no fool to mechanics. I am a professional aerospace mechanic. I work on private business jets and i guarantee you the company I work for would never let this type of mishap be pushed aside as “not our problem”. It is fair to question me but know I have insurance specialists as well as Yamaha mechanics behind me agreeing that this is a manufacturing issue with the boat. It is a new boat model so these things happen. I just wish they would step forward and say so.

 

[Neutron]

Interesting because this is not the first time I have heard of this problem. Not as sudden as mine was but completely totaling the boat I have. I did make another post to warn people. You may not know me but I am no fool to mechanics. I am a professional aerospace mechanic. I work on private business jets and i guarantee you the company I work for would never let this type of mishap be pushed aside as “not our problem”. It is fair to question me but know I have insurance specialists as well as Yamaha mechanics behind me agreeing that this is a manufacturing issue with the boat. It is a new boat model so these things happen. I just wish they would step forward and say so.

While i understand you are frustrated and upset with your situation, you stated it was a problem in an area that doesn't get inspected. But in fact it should have been inspected 3 times by now.
If you are the professional you say you are, then i am sure you are aware there is a service manual and owners manual that clearly stated what needs to be inspected.
So this is partially on you or your service technician.

 

[Pcity1019]

While i understand you are frustrated and upset with your situation, you stated it was a problem in an area that doesn't get inspected. But in fact it should have been inspected 3 times by now.
If you are the professional you say you are, then i am sure you are aware there is a service manual and owners manual that clearly stated what needs to be inspected.
So this is partially on you or your service technician.

Perhaps yet it is not in the owners manual. Only the service manual. So are you saying if you do your own maintenance you are doomed to fail??

 

[Neutron]

Perhaps yet it is not in the owners manual. Only the service manual. So are you saying if you do your own maintenance you are doomed to fail??

If you are doing your own maintenance you should have purchased a service manual day one.
They dont have manuals in the aerospace industry?
Since you are mechanically inclined, you know nothing is really "maintenance free"
And anything in a marine environment needs more inspection.

 

[swatski]

I am a professional aerospace mechanic. I work on private business jets and i guarantee you the company I work for would never let this type of mishap be pushed aside as “not our problem”.

Are you telling us you are as diligent inspecting and maintaining those private business jets as you are maintaining your Yamaha jet boat???? Following the owner manuals??????
That would make me nervous flying one of those.

It is fair to question me but know I have insurance specialists as well as Yamaha mechanics behind me agreeing that this is a manufacturing issue with the boat.

Well, if there is an agreement where you have Yamaha mechanics on board, that's good, right? You mentioned being $20k in the hole potentially but if they all agree it is due to a manufacturing defect... would this be covered under warranty? Or by the insurance?
Are you making a PSA? Which is very cool IMO, the discussion of the main bearing maintenance has been lagging behind and not getting nearly enough attention perhaps, your posts are an excellent reminder!

It is a new boat model so these things happen.

If your boat is a 2016 FSH 190 the pump main bearing and all other parts of that pump are not new, in fact those are considered "legacy" parts at this point, the 2019 MY redesigned pump being new.

I just wish they would step forward and say so.

How many other 1.8 engine boats do you know off where this has happened, playing out as in your case: the pump never been touched, no cone/o-ring touched or swapped, water intruding out of the blue and destroying the main bearing - all within 80 hr/ 3rd season (?) new boat ownership, with no accidental damage to the pump?
I don't know of any cases similar to yours.

No that Yamaha would be prompt to admit to anything like this had there been many other cases! In fact, they are not known to step forward with regards to major known issues affecting significant numbers of units such as TC breaking in pre-2015 1.8, oil cooler bolts shearing in 2010-2011, or AR240 post-2015 locking handwheel bolts pulling out and/or stripping.
So yeah, I wouldn't count on them stepping forward even if this was a more common failure. But I'm not sure it is.

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[Tailwaters]

I certainly was not aware of this potential maintenance item but now will most certainly take a look at mine. I do appreciate you bringing this up. I did a lot of research before making my purchase and never seen thread regarding this issue. I'm guessing and hoping this is a very rare catastrophic failure. Sorry you have to deal with this and hopefully Yamaha will step up and stand behind their product.

 

[2kwik4u]

I'm still unsure how the pump can cause catastrophic engine damage requiring it to be replaced. Do you have compression readings from before the pump went bad? If not, that is going to be a tough case to prove. What other signs are pointing towards a failed engine other than the relatively low compression numbers? DO you have any borescope pictures from inside the cylinders? I have a $20 borescope at home I can send you (works with PC or Android) if you would like to have an actual look around in the cylinders.

There is no direct link to the piston rings and cylinder bores from the pump. The impeller shaft is connected to the engine with a common 3 piece coupler. These are designed to allow both axial and radial misalignment at that joint. Even a sudden "Locking" of the engine at high revs would not manifest in worn piston rings or cylinder bores. I've rarely seen a wrist pin, connecting rod, piston, or block failure present as just "low compression" typically it's NO compression, or other obvious damage (like a rod sticking out of a block or similar catastrophic damage). I've pulled running engines apart with connecting rods that literally looked closer to a horseshoe than a beam.

There is a BIG leap here that the engine was damaged by the pump failure, and I have suspicion that correlation is being mistaken for causation here.

My experience is limited in the watercraft realm, but extensive in the automotive realm. Perhaps someone else here can explain how a seized pump can lead to low compression numbers?!?!?

 

[swatski]

I'm still unsure how the pump can cause catastrophic engine damage requiring it to be replaced. Do you have compression readings from before the pump went bad? If not, that is going to be a tough case to prove. What other signs are pointing towards a failed engine other than the relatively low compression numbers? DO you have any borescope pictures from inside the cylinders? I have a $20 borescope at home I can send you (works with PC or Android) if you would like to have an actual look around in the cylinders.

There is no direct link to the piston rings and cylinder bores from the pump. The impeller shaft is connected to the engine with a common 3 piece coupler. These are designed to allow both axial and radial misalignment at that joint. Even a sudden "Locking" of the engine at high revs would not manifest in worn piston rings or cylinder bores. I've rarely seen a wrist pin, connecting rod, piston, or block failure present as just "low compression" typically it's NO compression, or other obvious damage (like a rod sticking out of a block or similar catastrophic damage). I've pulled running engines apart with connecting rods that literally looked closer to a horseshoe than a beam.

There is a BIG leap here that the engine was damaged by the pump failure, and I have suspicion that correlation is being mistaken for causation here.

My experience is limited in the watercraft realm, but extensive in the automotive realm. Perhaps someone else here can explain how a seized pump can lead to low compression numbers?!?!?

If it wasn't for @AboveTheBest experience I would say you are right, but his case suggests otherwise. Maybe the coupler does not have as much flex?

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[2kwik4u]

If it wasn't for @AboveTheBest experience I would say you are right, but his case suggests otherwise. Maybe the coupler does not have as much flex?

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I just went and read his whole thread.

Best I can tell he lost a bearing in the pump, and the whole assembly was forced "forward" into the engine. This is the one direction that those couples can't accept much movement in before transmitting force into the crankcase. Still doesn't explain the loss of compression, but would explain a failed engine bearing.

Looks like his thread died out about a month and a half ago. Did he every tear apart the old engine? I'm really curious what he found.

 

[swatski]

I just went and read his whole thread.

Best I can tell he lost a bearing in the pump, and the whole assembly was forced "forward" into the engine. This is the one direction that those couples can't accept much movement in before transmitting force into the crankcase. Still doesn't explain the loss of compression, but would explain a failed engine bearing.

Looks like his thread died out about a month and a half ago. Did he every tear apart the old engine? I'm really curious what he found.

Yep, very informative as much as it's painful to even read..., and I see you got your update in his thread.

I've my ears tuned to the pumps sounds, and react quickly. If something does not sound right I slow or stop and make an effort to clear the debirs - which has been the case so far. I would be very quick to pull a pump after reading all that. In the past I could always tell and have pulled my pumps many times to clear crap.

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[Neutron]

His problem started from water intrusion, his firsts posts on this site stated that.
Its not a design flaw at all. And not a problem that Yamaha should be addressing.

 

[Chadharter]

Getting back to the subject. I can deal with/fix the leaking part. I just got back from the Florida Keys. Was really looking forward to buzzing around the Keys during mini season (Lobster). Do some fishing, maybe catch some Lobster. I knew I was in trouble as soon as I put my boat in the water. Sargasm grass everywhere. Probably had to stop 20 times to clean out the intake. It was really frustrating. I tried the reverse maneuver, etc. Just couldn't clear it without going down the intake cleanout. Even overheated once. I was tempted to take it to the nearest Marina and trade it in...….if you are in clean water though, the boat is great.