Trailer Tongue weight

[HangOutdoors]

@AZMark is yours a Galvanized trailer as well?

 

[AZMark]

There’s a ton of focus on reducing tongue weight here, but ultimately if your boat is within the weight range of your tow vehicle, then being a little heavy on the tongue is safer than the opposite. Too little tongue weight causes sway.

Shorelandrs recommended weight is really low and I don’t understand why. If 10% is fine for a travel trailer what is different about a boat? The only contact points are the tires and the hitch, so what the hell does the tow vehicle or tires care about what is sitting on top of those weighted points?

 

[AZMark]

@AZMark is yours a Galvanized trailer as well?

I wish. Painted.

 

[212s]

Shorelandrs recommended weight is really low and I don’t understand why. If 10% is fine for a travel trailer what is different about a boat? The only contact points are the tires and the hitch, so what the hell does the tow vehicle or tires care about what is sitting on top of those weighted points?

The only requirement is that the trailer rides level to the road when hitched, and that the tongue weight of the vehicle is not exceeded. If it's not level, you need to adjust ball height and/or tongue weight to level it out. Yamaha ships their boats with 10% tongue weight, but it's not needed. I think the reason they push for 10% is the high speed towing people do in N/A where 70-80mph is common. I regularly see 30ft campers racing through traffic doing 10 over on a friday evening trying to get to the campground as soon as possible. In most other parts of the world, driving with a trailer implies using more caution and slower speeds. When getting a driver's license the rule is - when towing, slow down, be aware of your surroundings and drive according to the road, weather, and traffic conditions. But most people only care about getting a beer.

 

[212s]

Here's mine as it sits right now...it's usually perfectly flush but I loosen the winch for the winter so it's about an inch over.

 

[HangOutdoors]

That is how mine sits.

 

[Stan M]

Now you guys are making me nervous...

 

[212s]

Now you guys are making me nervous...

You might have the wrong trailer, or perhaps it's a replacement that is a foot short? Shoreland'r makes trailers of all sizes.
I tried to line up the pic so you can see where the trailer lights end, and where the last crossmember with the bunk supports is positioned under the boat. My winch is just under half way up the tongue, plus the swing portion. Total trailer length is exactly 22ft from taillights to coupler. I think it fits perfectly like this and is well balanced after I moved the winch back a couple inches and the tandems forward 6 inches.

 

[DiggerPA]

I put a bath scale under the tongue of my 2022 195s a couple of weeks ago and it was 320 pounds. But it was a simple scale on a block under the tongue, nothing special. Boat and most gear, very little gas as I just got it and it has not been out yet. I was thinking that was about right when you consider the boat is supposed to weigh 2,509 pounds and the trailer another 670 according to Shorlander. for a total of 3,179. Then I had anchor, gear, so I thought it was just about right around 10%. maybe a little lighter then 10%

 

[1BadTundra]

I believe mine is the same, approximately 12" short of transom. I'll have to check next time I'm at the boat.

I looked at google images and just about every one I could see under were set up the same... But, I've always been told that the bunks need to extend to about an inch to the edge of the transom.

 

[1BadTundra]

Here's mine as it sits right now...it's usually perfectly flush but I loosen the winch for the winter so it's about an inch over.
View attachment 176122

Are we talking the same trailers? I have the galvanized with the swing away tongue. The reason I mention this, is my bow stop has to be set further back because of the hinged tongue. I don't think its too short, as my taillights are at the same place as yours.

 

[1BadTundra]

There’s a ton of focus on reducing tongue weight here, but ultimately if your boat is within the weight range of your tow vehicle, then being a little heavy on the tongue is safer than the opposite. Too little tongue weight causes sway.

Shorelandrs recommended weight is really low and I don’t understand why. If 10% is fine for a travel trailer what is different about a boat? The only contact points are the tires and the hitch, so what the hell does the tow vehicle or tires care about what is sitting on top of those weighted points?

So my Tundra tows 10,000, the boat & trailer weighs 5,000 tops... I have upgraded Leaf packs in my truck. I can haul 2000lb pallet of wood pellets with these new leafs with just about as much sag as when I hook the boat up. That's way too much sag for having the boat on. It will put premature wear on suspension components and tires. I've had an old boat that was too light in the tongue, its swayed like a SOB, a few adjustments later, not sway, no sag. That was with a 7000lb Wellcraft. This was my whole reason for starting this thread.

 

[212s]

Are we talking the same trailers? I have the galvanized with the swing away tongue. The reason I mention this, is my bow stop has to be set further back because of the hinged tongue. I don't think its too short, as my taillights are at the same place as yours.

Mine is painted, but yes I believe they all have swing tongues now. I just measured mine:

From swing hinge to coupler about 24 inches.
From bow roller center bolt out to coupler about 3ft 4 inches.

I noticed the newer trailers have a different winch tower which sits more forward, but the trailers themselves look the same painted or galvanized. I looked at 2016 pics and yes they all hang off the back. Looks like the bunks are mounted further forward when I compare your pic to mine. It's not hard to move them back for better support at the transom.

 

[212s]

So my Tundra tows 10,000, the boat & trailer weighs 5,000 tops... I have upgraded Leaf packs in my truck. I can haul 2000lb pallet of wood pellets with these new leafs with just about as much sag as when I hook the boat up. That's way too much sag for having the boat on. It will put premature wear on suspension components and tires. I've had an old boat that was too light in the tongue, its swayed like a SOB, a few adjustments later, not sway, no sag. That was with a 7000lb Wellcraft. This was my whole reason for starting this thread.

That's the effect of cantilever: 500 lbs of tongue weight will be about equal to 2000 lbs in the bed as all the weight is well past the rear axle pivot point instead of spread out in the bed over the axle.

When I leveled and balanced tongue weight down from 10% to 5% (about 250 lbs), my boat towed much smoother with less lateral push. No sway and only mild sag with my SUV's soft suspension. It made a big difference to how it rides and tows.

 

[1BadTundra]

That's the effect of cantilever: 500 lbs of tongue weight will be about equal to 2000 lbs in the bed as all the weight is well past the rear axle pivot point instead of spread out in the bed over the axle.

When I leveled and balanced tongue weight down from 10% to 5% (about 250 lbs), my boat towed much smoother with less lateral push. No sway and only mild sag with my SUV's soft suspension. It made a big difference to how it rides and tows.

This is exactly what I need to do.

 

[Ericd]

This is extreme, it happened to me years ago, when I didn’t know anything about loading a trailer and tongue weight. I loaded the U-Haul trailer way to heavy up front. Started down the road and all was well until I got on the interstate and up to 60-70 mph. Discovered I couldn’t steer the Explorer. Big ditches were on both sides. Most frightening driving situation I have ever been in. I braked gently, fortunately there was no traffic and got back down to 45-50 where I began to get comfortable and had better steering. Pulling off the road showed the heavy tongue and the rear end of the Explorer squatting, lifting the front.
I believe with the higher speed and backing off the gas when approaching a curve, the trailer momentum pushed the back of the Explorer down, lifting the front. It was long slow trip after that scare. We considered reloading, but chose to drive slow. Fortunately we made it the rest of the way without any further problems.
Tongue weight is important!

 

[AZMark]

This is extreme, it happened to me years ago, when I didn’t know anything about loading a trailer and tongue weight. I loaded the U-Haul trailer way to heavy up front. Started down the road and all was well until I got on the interstate and up to 60-70 mph. Discovered I couldn’t steer the Explorer. Big ditches were on both sides. Most frightening driving situation I have ever been in. I braked gently, fortunately there was no traffic and got back down to 45-50 where I began to get comfortable and had better steering. Pulling off the road showed the heavy tongue and the rear end of the Explorer squatting, lifting the front.
I believe with the higher speed and backing off the gas when approaching a curve, the trailer momentum pushed the back of the Explorer down, lifting the front. It was long slow trip after that scare. We considered reloading, but chose to drive slow. Fortunately we made it the rest of the way without any further problems.
Tongue weight is important!

I’ve seen a video of Uhauls CEO doing the opposite with all the weight in the back and swinging the trailer all over the place to show the importance of loading those utility trailers. I think he was towing with a crown Vic or something if I remember. Can’t find it.

 

[1BadTundra]

I did the bathroom scale thing... Here goes math.
5' plank, marked at 4' centers (pipe under 4' marks)
Marked 1' in from mark and set tongue
Read 110 lbs x 4' = 440lbs

Trailer weight= GVWR 5920 lbs - Max Carry 4600 Lbs = 1320 lb trailer
Boat (google says 3616lbs + 30gal fuel @6lbs per gal 180lbs fuel + 2 60lb batteries = 3936(ish) lbs
Boat + trailer = 5256lbs / 5% (shorlander website tandem axle tongue weight recommendation = 262lbs
Actual tongue 440 lbs- ideal 5% weight 262 lbs= 178lbs tongue weight needs to come off
Shorlander says move the axle 1" per every 10-15 lbs. Least amount of move would be 178 / 15 lbs per inch = 11.8"

This is a substantial amount of movement to balance the trailer. Even at 7% that would be alleviating 73 lbs, which would be just about 5" of moving the axles forward... That's at 15lbs per inch...

Thoughts here...

Edit** Corrected my math...

 

[Neutron]

I did the bathroom scale thing... Here goes math.
5' plank, marked at 4' centers (pipe under 4' marks)
Marked 1' in from mark and set tongue
Read 110 lbs x 4' = 440lbs

Trailer weight= GVWR 5920 lbs - Max Carry 4600 Lbs = 1320 lb trailer
Boat (google says 3616lbs + 30gal fuel @6lbs per gal 180lbs fuel + 2 60lb batteries = 3936(ish) lbs
Boat + trailer = 4256lbs / 5% (shorlander website tandem axle tongue weight recommendation = 213.30lbs
Shorlander says move the axle 1" per every 10-15 lbs. Least amount of move would be 213.30 / 15 lbs per inch = 14.22"

This is a substantial amount of movement to balance the trailer. Even at 7% that would be alleviating 142 lbs, which would be 9" of moving the axles forward... That's at 15lbs per inch...

Thoughts here...

I would shoot for the 7%mark 5 seems too light.
At 7 % you will still be fine no matter where you load gear and such.
Are you riding level with that big tundra?

 

[HangOutdoors]

I am running at 8% and it tows strong. I hang over the bunks about 1-1.5". 21 foot AR210 with painted trailer.