Simrad NSX v. Garmin 8412 (un-derailing 255 FSH Sport H have different impellers)

I started the thread to further the discussion that began in this thread: https://jetboaters.net/threads/why-...n-the-port-and-starboard-engines.43838/page-2
I am still waffling between the OEM provided Simrad NSX on the 255 H and starting over with a Garmin 8412.
With either system, I want to install a pair of sidescan transducers. I installed a pair of Garmin GT56UHD on our current 210FSH (https://jetboaters.net/threads/210-fsh-perfect-transducer-setup-what-is-it.30130/page-3 post 46).
I have read the Simrad NSX has shortcomings. Can anyone elaborate?
TIA.

If it's helpful to anyone here, I'll post a summary of pros & cons — based on my experience installing a Simrad/Lowrance system (NSS evo3S) on my 255 FSH Sport E and a Garmin system (86 & x3–series) on my other boat — much of which I've mentioned already in other threads.

Meanwhile, @MBrand has both an x3-series Garmin and an NSX on his Sport H, as I'm sure you've already seen @TeenGee . (For anyone else visiting this thread who may have missed that thread, it's worth checking out.)

MilesPrower said:

If it's helpful to anyone here, I'll post a summary of pros & cons — based on my experience installing a Simrad/Lowrance system (NSS evo3S) on my 255 FSH Sport E and a Garmin system (86 & x3–series) on my other boat — much of which I've mentioned already in other threads.

Meanwhile, @MBrand has both an x3-series Garmin and an NSX on his Sport H, as I'm sure you've already seen @TeenGee . (For anyone else visiting this thread who may have missed that thread, it's worth checking out.)

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And not to be a derailer again — shouldn't this be in the Electronics-Stereo/GPS/Chartplotter/Electrical etc forum?

I placed it here because I was under the impression the Simrad NSX was unique to the 25x FSH.
If the NSX is not unique to the the FSH, could this thread get moved?

If I remove the Yamaha installed Simrad, will I lose any capability on a FSH 255 H?
Does the Simrad control or provide any input to the joystick or Conext?

TeenGee said:

If I remove the Yamaha installed Simrad, will I lose any capability on a FSH 255 H?
Does the Simrad control or provide any input to the joystick or Conext?

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Don’t take my word for it, but I doubt it. They’ve hardly programmed any useful features into it compared to what it will one day be capable of. If you want to pair your plotter to a trolling motor, then the NSX does not interface with anything yet. Garmin integrates with its new Kraken motor which I’m considering.

I would look to use a higher power transducer than the base model with side scan on that NSX. It’s what I used and I did not have good results in salt water, but worked great in brackish and fresh. I don’t like CMAP but found a way around it with a separately mounted iPad. It works great and fast though. They just need to update it with more features.

Beachcampin said:

I don’t like CMAP but found a way around it with a separately mounted iPad.

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you can add a Navionics maps chip to it too. It should have ports on the back for 2 cards. I run my Go9 with Both and change select either map from navigation menu.

lazergeek said:

you can add a Navionics maps chip to it too. It should have ports on the back for 2 cards. I run my Go9 with Both and change select either map from navigation menu.

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Unless it’s brand spankin new, I don’t think so. It definitely wasn’t as of a few months ago. Some other charts are available now, like StrikeLines and other speciality fishing charts, But not Navionics yet. Since Garmin bought them, Simrad and Garmin don’t want to play. nice anymore.

Beachcampin said:

Unless it’s brand spankin new, I don’t think so. It definitely wasn’t as of a few months ago. Some other charts are available now, like StrikeLines and other speciality fishing charts, But not Navionics yet. Since Garmin bought them, Simrad and Garmin don’t want to play. nice anymore.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1146915&d=1703004206

https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-forum/1305649-simrad-nsx-compatible-navionics.html

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oh bummer, I was not aware of that. I did not realize they stopped supporting Navionics. Although updating the CMAP chip with the latest data will give you alot better experience too. They ship with the bare minimum downloaded to them I found

lazergeek said:

oh bummer, I was not aware of that. I did not realize they stopped supporting Navionics. Although updating the CMAP chip with the latest data will give you alot better experience too. They ship with the bare minimum downloaded to them I found

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As @Beachcampin stated, Simrad NSX series doesn't support Navionics charts — at least not yet, and possibly never. Other Simrad/Lowrance series are compatible with Navionics+ charts.

Here's the complete compatibility list from Navionics/Garmin:

Here is a list of the features I spent a couple of hours discussing with Simrad tech support. The discussion was after hours of listening to "your position in the queue is X."

I have an NSX12 with software version 1.9.204. It is what Yamaha installs in the 2024 Yamaha 255 FSH Sport. H.
1. Shallow water less than 1 foot below the transducer, NSX thinks it is in 5 feet of water.
2. NSX Won’t auto route on the move. Wants to start the route from location auto route calculation was initiated. Distance to Destination keeps increasing.
3. NSX Auto routing through a swamp where chart shows 0 feet of water or under a bridge my boat will not fit under when there is a high bridge adjacent the low bridge.
4. NSX Keel offset only showing on the Echo. Other apps show distance from transducer to the bottom not from keel to bottom.
5. Down and Structure Scan are disabled when Echo Scan is on Chirp.
6. Can’t reset NSX Trip Odometer, Average Trip Speed, and Trip Time.
7. NSX can't Hide Depth on multiple apps when they are running in the same window.

According to tech support these are all software issues.
I told tech support I was frustrated with the performance of the NSX and if these issues were not remedied soon I would be removing the NSX and installing a Garmin which has none of the above listed "features". He was very understanding and agreed he would be frustrated also.
Here are a couple of responses fro tech support:
For #2, "looks like there is a fix in the pipe. For now, go to settings Preferences and increase the arrival radius it may prevent this."
For #6, "Although trip and ODO can be shown the work to implement the reset of these is still on backlog."
I'm taking the boat in for servicing and warranty work next week. I will be talking with the salesman and the warranty person about these problems with the NSX and asking them to raise the issues with Yamaha.

I hope I don't derail this topic too much, as my freshwater experience may not apply at all to this conversation.

It sounds like you guys use your units for navigation far more than for fishing. Although both brands will do both well. After having owned both Simrad and a pair of current Garmin's, it does seem that the mapping software used is what makes them powerful. Both my Simrad (Older Go7) and Garmin 93 and Garmin 106 run Navionics, and once loaded, they operate very similarily. Keep in mind, I am not using them for navigation to the extent you are. So controls and boat integration will have a lot to do with that.

Now the reason for the Garmins in my fishing boat was very plain and simple. The navionics lake maps, and Livescope. If you are considering forward facing sonar, Garmin leads in that arena hands down with livescope. But if that is not in your future, it's a moot point. My guess is Navico may integrate Active Target from Lowrance with a Simrad, but I have never looked into it.

Not sure if you salt water guys are using forward facing sonar as much as we inland guys are.

Back to your discussion.

Actually, most of the time is in water less than 10 feet deep( some times as shallow as 3 feet) in a river I know fairly well. So Nav is not the top priority, depth is.

Update on NSX "features".
At the recommendation of tech support, I increased the arrival radius to 1,000 feet and NSX was able to autoroute while traveling at 25 mph. That crutch works for #2. Awaiting software update so I can remove the crutch and set the arrival distance back to 50 feet.

Number 5 seems to be working correctly. When Echo is on High Chirp, Downscan is on 800kHz.

Numbers 1, 3, and 4 are the big ones that until they are fixed create a safety of operation issue.

1. Shallow water less than 1 foot below the transducer, NSX thinks it is in 5 feet of water.
2. NSX Won’t auto route on the move. Wants to start the route from location auto route calculation was initiated. Distance to Destination keeps increasing.
3. NSX Auto routing through a swamp where chart shows 0 feet of water or under a bridge my boat will not fit under when there is a high bridge adjacent the low bridge.
4. NSX Keel offset only showing on the Echo. Other apps show distance from transducer to the bottom not from keel to bottom.
5. Down and Structure Scan are disabled when Echo Scan is on Chirp.
6. Can’t reset NSX Trip Odometer, Average Trip Speed, and Trip Time.
7. NSX can't Hide Depth on multiple apps when they are running in the same window.

biffdotorg said:

I hope I don't derail this topic too much, as my freshwater experience may not apply at all to this conversation.

It sounds like you guys use your units for navigation far more than for fishing. Although both brands will do both well. After having owned both Simrad and a pair of current Garmin's, it does seem that the mapping software used is what makes them powerful. Both my Simrad (Older Go7) and Garmin 93 and Garmin 106 run Navionics, and once loaded, they operate very similarily. Keep in mind, I am not using them for navigation to the extent you are. So controls and boat integration will have a lot to do with that.

Now the reason for the Garmins in my fishing boat was very plain and simple. The navionics lake maps, and Livescope. If you are considering forward facing sonar, Garmin leads in that arena hands down with livescope. But if that is not in your future, it's a moot point. My guess is Navico may integrate Active Target from Lowrance with a Simrad, but I have never looked into it.

Not sure if you salt water guys are using forward facing sonar as much as we inland guys are.

Back to your discussion.

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I don’t have it, but I’ve heard live scan is great for finding bait pods. I also found that the saltier the water got, the less the NSX seemed to work. That may have been user error though with settings.

TeenGee said:

I told tech support I was frustrated with the performance of the NSX and if these issues were not remedied soon I would be removing the NSX and installing a Garmin which has none of the above listed "features". He was very understanding and agreed he would be frustrated also.

Click to expand...

I installed a 1243xsv in my 24 H and run it side by side with the simrad. The only reason I haven't yanked the simrad trash out yet is that I already installed the Halo20+ & compass- and haven't researched the OEM transducer compatibility with the Garmin unit.

For navigation and ease of use-- it's light years beyond simrad. Hell, even the path traveled breadcrumbs are next to useless on the Simrad. (Not to mention the on screen controls for the Kraken trolling motor being available on Garmin only). I have the Garmin pulling the depth from the OEM transducer via NMEA.

This winter I'll probably yank & sell the Simrad NSX and the Halo setup and go full Garmin. At this point it's only used as a radar display.

zackmorris said:

I installed a 1243xsv in my 24 H and run it side by side with the simrad. The only reason I haven't yanked the simrad trash out yet is that I already installed the Halo20+ & compass- and haven't researched the OEM transducer compatibility with the Garmin unit.

For navigation and ease of use-- it's light years beyond simrad. Hell, even the path traveled breadcrumbs are next to useless on the Simrad. (Not to mention the on screen controls for the Kraken trolling motor being available on Garmin only). I have the Garmin pulling the depth from the OEM transducer via NMEA.

This winter I'll probably yank & sell the Simrad NSX and the Halo setup and go full Garmin. At this point it's only used as a radar display.

Click to expand...

In one of my boats, I have three Garmin screens — 1243xsv, 8610xsv, and 723xsv — along with an MSC 10 GPS compass and a Fantom 24x radar.

On my other boat, I have two Simrad screens — NSS12 evo3s and Go12 XSE — along with an HS60 GPS compass and a Halo 20+ radar.

I've never been on a boat with a Simrad NSX unit, so I can't say anything substantial about it beyond what I've read online. But given all the problems that folks here and at THT have pointed out, I have no doubt that the Garmin 1243xsv system is light years ahead of the Simrad NSX.

With that said, you might be surprised if you compare a Simrad evo3s system against the Garmin. IMHO, the evo3s family (despite its "vintage") is light years ahead of Garmin's GPSMap series — especially for navigation.

My #1 use for radar is navigation in low-visibility conditions. Not only is the Garmin Fantom 24x (which I upgraded from a Fantom 18 that came pre-installed on my boat) subpar in all regards to the much lower cost Halo 20+, but Garmin's MARPA implementation is literally unusable. Meanwhile, Simrad's MARPA implementation is intuitive and spot-on. It accurately identities true collision targets, clearly shows the estimated collision paths, and warns you to take evasive action if collision is imminent. Garmin's MARPA, on the other hand, regularly tracks stationary trees miles away on the shoreline as collision targets. Heck, even random waves that appear for one sweep of the radar continue to remain on Garmin's MARPA target list for minutes afterward — no matter what settings you tweak.

Plus, if you have an AIS class B+ receiver (or transceiver) on your boat, the Simrad evo3s can merge AIS targets with MARPA acquisitions to give you even better collision-avoidance data. I have the same Vesper Cortex M1 VHF+AIS radio on both of my boats, and despite Vesper being a Garmin product, Simrad does a much tighter integration.

Even if you'd rather run old-school without MARPA or AIS, the Halo 20+ is a better radar. The Fantom 24x can't image a channel marker that's close to a shoreline. Even in flat, open water, the Fantom 24x can't reliably image a bare wood piling or even a small skiff. In contrast, the Halo 20+ has no problem resolving a swimmer in the water, even close to the shoreline.

For finding diving birds and therefore fish, the Halo 20+ absolutely blows away the Fantom 24x. I can spot a single penguin a mile away on the Halo 20+ (seriously, no exaggeration), while the Fantom 24x has trouble spotting birds at any distance (other than large flocks) no matter the auto/manual radar settings in bird mode (or any other mode for that matter).

Moreover, installing software updates on the Garmin system is always a PITA. You've got two choices: (1) Use the ActiveCaptain app on an iOS or Android device to download the update, and then upload from the app via Garmin's wi-fi to all of the Garmin devices; or (2) Download a huge zip file (from Garmin's very slow servers), that contains updates to all of Garmin's GPSMAP models, to a computer, unzip the file, then load the unzipped files into a microSD card that you insert into one of your Garmin units. Either method takes a couple hours if you have multiple Garmin devices to update.

Updating the Simrad system? I turn on my Simrad devices, and the evo3s itself connects to my dock's wi-fi and distributes the updates to all of the other Simrad devices. 15 minutes later, I'm done.

Similarly, to synchronize waypoints or tracks on the Garmin system, I have to connect the ActiveCaptain app to the Garmin system's wi-fi. Meanwhile, on my three Simrad/Lowrance/Navico systems (the one boat with evo3s, one fishing kayak with evo3, a second fishing kayak with Lowrance), as soon as I power them on, they sync waypoints and tracks with Navico's cloud.

I could go on and on... but I get the feeling that very few (if any) of the active members here at Jetboaters are using their MFDs for low or zero-vis navigation or have multiple systems to keep synchronized... so I'll conclude my TED Talk now instead of boring everyone to death!!! Let me end by saying that everything I've read on the Simrad NSX series is in line with what @zackmorris has experienced. NSX is clearly a problem-child for Simrad, and it's not ready for primetime!

Zack, I'm sure you'll be happy to get rid of the NSX. With that said, if you're ever in the Pensacola/Destin area and you want to see a fully integrated evo3s-controlled Simrad Halo 20+ system vs. a Garmin Fantom24x system on the water, back-to-back, give me a holler.

I am done with Simrad!
I'm getting a Garmin.
I tried adding a pair of Simrad Active Imaging 3-in-1 Transducers. The attachment shows the installation.
The specs claim:
Operating speed
• Traditional: 48 knots (55 mph)
• DownScan and SideScan: 9 knots (10 mph)

At 35 mph the depth reading went to -----.
The scanning worked as specified up to 10 mph.
Also the depth went to ---- when the depth was less than 1 foot.

West Marine ROCKS. They allowed me to return the 3-in-1 Transducers and refunded to my card.

The two biggest issues I see with that installation are potentially. 1. angle 2. turbulence

Most have found that a slight angle pointing towards the bow is required for depth at speed. Also putting it at or near the center will expose that transducer to a fair amount of turbulent water which would effect performance.

Lots of variables, but yes, don't expect a reading under 1 foot of water. Most of the times when I don't get a reading with mine mounted off to one side and the proper angle is weeds on the 'ducer.

Best of luck, but when you get your Garmin, change your mounting location. My Echomap 93 and 106 on my fishing boat use the 'ducer off to one side and at the same angle as I mounted my Simrad 'ducer. Same results.

I agree to close to the center line of the hull, another inch or 2 further out would help. Also the starboard transducer is inline with either the speedo pickup or livewell intake (I cant tell which) which was inducing turbulence for the transducer.