195s audio power problems! Blowing fuses. (PIC HEAVY)

[TXtraumaRN]

I have a basic knowledge of car audio from my teens to early twenties, but this is my first marine install...
I was doing a rough in for the JBL towers and Kicker subs which are to be powered by a JBL 1300 watt Amp. Amp is connected directly to the battery (via a fuse box and inline fuse) using 8 awg wire throughout, and also grounded at the battery terminal via 8 awg wire. As soon as I flip the toggle for the amp remote it blows the fuses. Everything looks to be connected correctly. Are the 40a fuses too small?
(initially I saw the toggle light up for about 15 secs when I connected power, but turned it off immediately because lines weren't securely fastened. As soon as I turned it back on, it blew at the fuse block. I replaced the fuse and tried again but it blew the same fuse again, plus the inline fuse? The block and fuses have been in storage for about 15 years, could that be a problem? Are they just too small?)

 

[lazergeek]

Since the amp probably uses 2 30 amp fuses I would do at least 60 amp fuse, but I would opt for a 80 amp fust or breaker instead since the amp has smaller fuses to protect them. Also at 50 amp draw which I suspect is the case 8 guage wire is only good for 9 feet run, otherwise you shoud drop to 6 guage or even 4 guage.

 

[JasonB]

I have a basic knowledge of car audio from my teens to early twenties, but this is my first marine install...
I was doing a rough in for the JBL towers and Kicker subs which are to be powered by a JBL 1300 watt Amp. Amp is connected directly to the battery (via a fuse box and inline fuse) using 8 awg wire throughout, and also grounded at the battery terminal via 8 awg wire. As soon as I flip the toggle for the amp remote it blows the fuses. Everything looks to be connected correctly. Are the 40a fuses too small?
(initially I saw the toggle light up for about 15 secs when I connected power, but turned it off immediately because lines weren't securely fastened. As soon as I turned it back on, it blew at the fuse block. I replaced the fuse and tried again but it blew the same fuse again, plus the inline fuse? The block and fuses have been in storage for about 15 years, could that be a problem? Are they just too small?)

I have found this guy at they following link explains things for me really well. I too was into installing car audio for friends back in my teens and twenty's and I have learned quite a lot from the various videos this guy puts out. At the end he puts up more detailed video links for choosing fuse sizes and such. I hope this helps.

 

[PastMaster32]

I have essentially the same boat, same amplifier, but Infinity branded. I mounted mine under the helm and used 4 gauge wire and 100 amp inline fuse. I've used it hard for 100's of hours without a single blown fuse.

 

[Caudio18]

Wire size is important for current draw but will not cause instant blown fuses. My initial reaction would be bad amp.

What size is the fuses in the amp itself. Make sure you have at least that large in fuse holder near battery and the distribution fuse holder. Oh and I know it sounds dumb but check to make sure your positive and ground on amp are in right spot.

 

[Caudio18]

So in looking at your pictures more, is the only fuse blowing the one in distribution block connected to 12 volt trigger. Going through that switch? If that's the case just touch the 2 red together and see if it works without blowing. Bypass the switch for now.

 

[212s]

So in looking at your pictures more, is the only fuse blowing the one in distribution block connected to 12 volt trigger. Going through that switch? If that's the case just touch the 2 red together and see if it works without blowing. Bypass the switch for now.

I believe that switch is for the remote wire to turn the amp on/off. I don't recommend bypassing the remote turn on - usually amps will fire a transient surge through the outputs when power and remote are activated together that makes a loud pop in the speakers and can damage them.

 

[Caudio18]

Correct I am just saying bypass that switch for testing. Since that switch has a ground on it, if bad or wired wrong that would cause the fuse to blow instantly. Ideally the remote wire should be running from the back of the radio (remote turn on wire, usually blue) to the amp, but a manual switch could work.

 

[Farny]

I have my remote turn on wire running from the fusion head unit to the amp. I didn’t use a switch on the power cables. Looks to me like you might have your “remote turn on” wired to the positive distribution block? I would think that may cause problems. Or at minimum, cause your amps to be constantly on.

Also currently I am running 60amp fuses recommended by the amp manufacturer Kicker

 

[ripler]

I'm not sure what amplifier that is, but from looking at your pictures it may be the MA4505, if so the user manual suggests a 100A main fuse at the battery and a minimum 4 gauge wire. There is no need for a distribution block if you are only running one amp from the source. Typically the distribution block is there to accept a larger gauge wire as an input and the fuses are there to allow you to protect the smaller gauge wire running from the distribution block to multiple amplifiers. It looks like you are taking power from the distribution block to your turn on switch, but from what the picture it looks like there isn't a fuse where the switch is hooked to. The light on the toggle has nothing to do with the power to the amp, the light is just indicating that the switch is in the on position. Typically the amp turn on should come from the receiver. If that's a new amp it's doubtful that the amp is bad. I check all of your +12VDC wiring to make sure it isn't shorted to ground. If there isn't a short then I would increase the wire and fuse size accordingly.

A few things to consider when installing an amp:
-Not all wire is made the same and the same sized wire can carry less or more current depending on it's construction.
-The fuse you are putting between the battery and the amplifier is not there to protect the amplifier, it is there to protect the wire.
-The wire must be able to carry the same or more amperage than what the fuse is rated for.
-Typically the amplifier has onboard fuses and electronic protection and this has nothing to do with sizing the wire and main fuse.
-Do not take what the manufacturer recommends for fuse and wire size, every installation is unique and there are a lot of variables to consider when sizing wire and fuses.

 

[TXtraumaRN]

So in looking at your pictures more, is the only fuse blowing the one in distribution block connected to 12 volt trigger. Going through that switch? If that's the case just touch the 2 red together and see if it works without blowing. Bypass the switch for now.

It's blowing the inline fuse (next to the battery) and the fuse in the block. From what others have said it appears I may need to jump up to 100a fuses.

 

[proplessdancer]

100amp fuse and 4ga power & ground wires. should solve the problem(s)

 

[212s]

It's blowing the inline fuse (next to the battery) and the fuse in the block. From what others have said it appears I may need to jump up to 100a fuses.

Unless the amp does some sort of self-check when it turns on that draws 100a, the fuse size wouldn't matter that much. Transient turn on is usually pretty weak and if the volume is off a class D amp is drawing almost nothing when idle. I'm betting a speaker wire is crossed somewhere shorting the outputs.

 

[jthackman]

no help on a solution...but hate to see ya blowing $ on fuses..maybe grab one of these circuit breakers

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077CZ1JYM/ref=twister_B07ZCHSZZT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Caudio18]

So the amperage and wire size is not gonna matter if its blowing fuses that quick. I ran a car stereo installation shop for 15 plus years , have moved on to home stereo now. Their is a short somewhere in your wiring blowing fuses. Usually shorted outputs will not cause blown fuses but it can depending on the make of some amps, but to be safe un hook your speaker wire, hook up just the power and ground. And just take a little piece of wire and go from positive to remote turn on amp (no switch) . If it comes on and no blown fuses. Then repeat hooking up speaker wires 1 pair at a time. Test after each one.
The amp has 3 30 amp fuses in so yes a 100 amp circuit breaker or maxi fuse would be recommended and will need 4 gauge or more for best performance depending on how far battery is. (That's a whole.other topic)

 

[TXtraumaRN]

I'll be pulling it apart tomorrow (Friday) to troubleshoot everything. I'm hoping it is something as simple as a crossed wire.
As was noted in the original post this is a "rough in" (rough install, so no wiring is actually permanently run and everything is just connected for testing). The toggle switch is definitely not a permanent part of the system, but I will be running the remote through a relay via a switch panel (link below) because there are several reasons to do so.
The amps and fuse block will be mounted in the port aft well below the seat, next to the battery. So the run from battery to Amp will be max of 3 ft. I have 0 awg +/- wires coming Saturday for that. Once I have everything figured out with this Amp I'll also be installing another 400w JBL Amp to run the 6.5" JBL Speakers. After that I'll work on upgrading to a dual battery system. As soon as I have everything done I'll do a write up with plenty of pics to get some feedback, criticism, and suggestions. Thanks for the info guys, I'll keep you updated.

6 gang switch panel

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088T8QS92/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_RD011X463V5BC4RSFXWE?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Farny]

I'll be pulling it apart tomorrow (Friday) to troubleshoot everything. I'm hoping it is something as simple as a crossed wire.
As was noted in the original post this is a "rough in" (rough install, so no wiring is actually permanently run and everything is just connected for testing). The toggle switch is definitely not a permanent part of the system, but I will be running the remote through a relay via a switch panel (link below) because there are several reasons to do so.
The amps and fuse block will be mounted in the port aft well below the seat, next to the battery. So the run from battery to Amp will be max of 3 ft. I have 0 awg +/- wires coming Saturday for that. Once I have everything figured out with this Amp I'll also be installing another 400w JBL Amp to run the 6.5" JBL Speakers. After that I'll work on upgrading to a dual battery system. As soon as I have everything done I'll do a write up with plenty of pics to get some feedback, criticism, and suggestions. Thanks for the info guys, I'll keep you updated.

6 gang switch panel

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088T8QS92/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_RD011X463V5BC4RSFXWE?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I like where you’re going with it . I mounted my amps the same way. After a year with the system, decided I wanted more so I’m just finishing up my 2nd upgrade. Have the amps out for sound test and amp tuning. Will clean up wires when I get ready to mount them on the board.

Here’s my thread on same boat as you https://jetboaters.net/threads/195s-dual-battery-sound-system-upgrade.36607/

Curious as to your thinking on the switch panel route?

 

[TXtraumaRN]

Curious as to your thinking on the switch panel route?

For the most part it's just in case you're out and about and something shorts or a speaker blows or really anything goes wrong, you can isolate the problem and still have tunes until you can get it fixed. If an Amp overheats you can shut it down and still have tunes. Also, my wife and I like to go out at night and relax on the boat under the stars. It's not really optimal to have the subs bumping when you're trying to keep the volume low. And, unless you're going to be diligent about making sure the volume is down every time you shut it off, this will help you make sure you have control of the volume before the amps fire up.
I'll have to check out your thread when I get my issues worked out.

 

[TXtraumaRN]

After going to 4 different electrical stores and realizing nobody carries glass BUS fuses anymore, I had to bite the bullet and go to a car audio shop and buy three 100 Amp fuses at $5 ea. Nonetheless, after disconnecting everything from the amp except +/- (with a 40A inline) and rerouting the remote (with toggle) directly to the battery , it fired up fine. After connecting the tower speakers and subs there was no problem either, so I've determined the problem lies somewhere in the fuse block since that was isolated (disconnected) during the troubleshooting. Now I've got to run the amp (400w JBL) for the cabin speakers and figure out my fuse block issue.
Another problem... In the process I found that the remote wire doesn't really do sh*t. I was using it to turn the amp on/off during testing, then when I went to shut down I turned the amp off (toggle/remote) and 5 secs later the amp popped back on and was playing music again,but the toggle was off. I'm guessing this is from the output from the output from the RCA's from the head unit? Any work-around? I like to have independent control of my amps, so I want to run the remotes through a switch panel. This is uncharted territory, so maybe a relay on the ground?

 

[Farny]

After going to 4 different electrical stores and realizing nobody carries glass BUS fuses anymore, I had to bite the bullet and go to a car audio shop and buy three 100 Amp fuses at $5 ea. Nonetheless, after disconnecting everything from the amp except +/- (with a 40A inline) and rerouting the remote (with toggle) directly to the battery , it fired up fine. After connecting the tower speakers and subs there was no problem either, so I've determined the problem lies somewhere in the fuse block since that was isolated (disconnected) during the troubleshooting. Now I've got to run the amp (400w JBL) for the cabin speakers and figure out my fuse block issue.
Another problem... In the process I found that the remote wire doesn't really do sh*t. I was using it to turn the amp on/off during testing, then when I went to shut down I turned the amp off (toggle/remote) and 5 secs later the amp popped back on and was playing music again,but the toggle was off. I'm guessing this is from the output from the output from the RCA's from the head unit? Any work-around? I like to have independent control of my amps, so I want to run the remotes through a switch panel. This is uncharted territory, so maybe a relay on the ground?

Let’s compare notes….What’s odd… similar issue..when I mounted my first amp. The auto on worked just fine.. now after this upgrade for some reason (even with key off) when I turn the battery switch on the whole system turns on. Not sure if it’s because I added acr and dual battery, or if I wired something wrong with the remote wire through the sound system.

3rd thought - maybe something to do with having the NOCO charger hooked up?