2 questions 1)Thrust Vectors 2) removing pump

[Yan Masse]

Hi all,

1) I just noticed my TV are not aligned anyone, do you know how I can make them straight again?

@JetBoatPilot do you have any idea why it looks like this?

2) I thought there was just 4bolts to remove but the buckets and sterling assy are to be remove too? All the vids I found are for skis and its not the same. @ScarabMike you know a video specific to boats?

Thanks

 

[ScarabMike]

I have always warned anyone in the Rotax world not to use these. They are gimmicks, and are not made for your boat or ski. They are custom made for the Yamaha nozzles. Save your money. This will happen all the time when you have a 3k lbs machine travelling at speeds, then turn.

Our boats already handle like they are on rails.

If you guys are looking to get more hook up while under way, look into some shim plates that change the thrust angle and will change your trim.

Nothing works better than a keel to keep the boat tracking correctly, but these "patches" are not going to stand the test of time on our boats unless they are made for the rotax nozzle.

These TV are designed to raise out of the way when the Yamaha is underway. This keeps them outside the running surface water area, and they direct the jet flow. This happens because of the reverse bucket design of the Yamaha. In the Rotax environment, they cannot raise outside the running surface because they are blocked by the reverse bucket. This leaves the TV exposed to extreme amounts of stress that will bend them, and can possibly damage your steering system or jet pump.

The closest one I have seen that attaches to the nozzle is the @Cobra Jet Steering LLC ones. These will have to be drilled into the system, but I have seen them stand up to heavy abuse as they are stationary.

Again, Im not endorsing a product, but I am going to critique and question the use of these for our boats.

 

[RodK]

Thanks ScarabMike.. I knew there had to be some downside and what you say makes a lot of sense

 

[BobJohnson]

Hi all,

1) I just noticed my TV are not aligned anyone, do you know how I can make them straight again?

@JetBoatPilot do you have any idea why it looks like this?

2) I thought there was just 4bolts to remove but the buckets and sterling assy are to be remove too? All the vids I found are for skis and its not the same. @ScarabMike you know a video specific to boats?

Thanks

How about # 2 anyone? I too have only seen videos of pump removal on jet skis. Love to see one on boats and a twin engine one would be great.

 

[Speed_Freak_039A]

It all comes apart very easily.

 

[Sean Clements]

After sucking up a ski rope, I pulled my port pump off. Three 10mm bolts for steering and reverse bucket and four 17mm bolts holding the pump on. Very easy, took about 10 minutes to pull off, two minutes removing the rope and 10 minutes to re-install. Previous forum posts were very helpful.

 

[Yan Masse]

View attachment 44121 View attachment 44120 After sucking up a ski rope, I pulled my port pump off. Three 10mm bolts for steering and reverse bucket and four 17mm bolts holding the pump on. Very easy, took about 10 minutes to pull off, two minutes removing the rope and 10 minutes to re-install. Previous forum posts were very helpful.

Thanks!

 

[JetBoatPilot]

@Yan Masse I disagree with Scarab Mike's analysis of our product. The fins do rotate up and out of the water while at high speeds. The issue that you're seeing with your fins appears to me to have been caused by the boat touching bottom. I have no problem with sending replacement fins but I would suggest if the boat is going to be left in the water in a shallow area, that you make sure that the water is at least knee deep or deeper.

Others have been so clever as to rotate the fins into the up position and insert a piece of pool float into the nozzle to trap the fins in the up position. when you leave just pull the float out and the fins will drop back down.

 

[Yan Masse]

@Yan Masse I disagree with Scarab Mike's analysis of our product. The fins do rotate up and out of the water while at high speeds. The issue that you're seeing with your fins appears to me to have been caused by the boat touching bottom. I have no problem with sending replacement fins but I would suggest if the boat is going to be left in the water in a shallow area, that you make sure that the water is at least knee deep or deeper.

Others have been so clever as to rotate the fins into the up position and insert a piece of pool float into the nozzle to trap the fins in the up position. when you leave just pull the float out and the fins will drop back down.

Well I am sure that I did not touched the bottom, I always keep a minimum of 12¨ of clearance at the intake ans when I beach I always have the ladder down for my girls, since the lader goes deeper than the fins it would be bended as well.

We do a lot of tubin with some hard turns, the pressure on the fins was my first guess, as @ScarabMike said.

I will however use the pool noodle as of now.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Just bear in mind that when other boats come by the boat can rock and move up and down. This could potentially lead to a fin hitting the bottom. Again no worries on our end. I will send you a new set of fins and you can swap them out. Also you can simply tug on the fins and they will straighten themselves out. But if the stainless steel cross member in between the fins is bent the fins will eventually move back to where they were. Let me know if you need a new cross member as well.

 

[ScarabMike]

@JetBoatPilot

That's a line of bullshit. Look at the picture, and you can clearly see the rubbing on the lower edge of the reverse bucket and on the connecting piece of the TV. And before you say that is from surface contact, its impossible for that part of the reverse bucket to contact anything but water. I would highly suggest you offer apologies to the customer, admit that it was a mistake to sell these to the Rotax owners, and discontinue to do so going forward.

 

[ScarabMike]

@Yan Masse do not accept a replacement piece. Go out to the boat, and grab the TV, and push them up. Take a picture, and post it. Don't fall for this garbage, and protect the potential customers from making the same mistake. Also protect your investment from damage that will not be covered under warranty.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

@ScarabMike call me 850-960-3236, not necessary to post this kind of inflammatory rhetoric on the board. I designed these fins and I think I know a bit about what I'm talking about.

To address the function of the fins and why you see marks on the reverse gate, the fin's cross member comes into contact with the reverse bucket when you shift to reverse while at speeds higher than 10 mph. If you push the fins up while the reverse bucket is up (while the boat is out of the water), the fins clear and rotate all the way from hard to starboard to hard to port.

The fins also will be completely out of the water while on plane. While it is possible for the fin to be subjected to a load while at intermediate speeds such as surfing speed we've not seen issues with bent fins very often. Most often bent fins come from a strike.

I have seen on rare occasion a flaring of the fins where the leading edges are wider than the trailing edges. This does not happen often but when it has happened the fins appeared to be flared outward, not inward.

With all this said, we typically warranty any sort of issue like this. We've not seen any instances of factory warranty being voided and we feel that the Thrust Vector product is performing as it is intended to on BRP powered boats. If anyone has a complaint or concern they can reach me anytime at 850-960-3236 or at will@jetboatpilot.com.

 

[ScarabMike]

No I will not. Its simple, since you are the designer, then you have some R&D work that will show that the TV are doing and working as you "designed" them on a ROTAX boat. For the exception of a couple bolts to patch the kit on the Rotax's nozzle, both Yamaha and this kit are IDENTICAL. Again, I have no question that these work awesome on a Yamaha.

The rotax boats don't need help turning at the dock like the Yamaha boats do, they spin like a top as is. If they need anything, its for tracking (keel). That would mean that these will need to be solid, and attached to the nozzle or guided by the nozzle.

Your design hits the bucket, and does not turn with the nozzle. This causes stress against the pump, bucket, and the Vectors. Prove me wrong.

The evidence is right there in that picture.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

@ScarabMike these fins were designed for a jet boat, not a Yamaha Jet Boat. Both versions work similarly but the geometry is completely different from the Yamaha as well as the mounting. I also think you misunderstood me concerning the reverse bucket. We never stated that the reverse bucket comes onto contact with the bottom. We stated that the fins likely did.

What I'd appreciate is for you to go back through this thread and read how much damaging and misleading information that you've written and then edit your comments. If you'd like for me to clarify any of my claims I can be reached by phone or email any time.

 

[ScarabMike]

Here is your own video showing you what happens to these. In the Yamaha's case they get out of the way, in the rotax they HIT THE BUCKET. Look at 41 seconds into the video.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

I'm sure for an experienced driver such as yourself you don't need any help around the dock, but we serve the entire jet boating community and let me tell you, the dealers and the guys that are selling these boats used are not telling people how to maneuver around the dock while in neutral. The technique that you're using, which I agree helps with steering around the dock immensely, has to be taught first. That's my point. Thrust Vectors don't require any teaching. Anyone can drive with no training on how to use our system.

The Thrust Vectors do hang down in the non-turbulent flow while at slow speeds. The springs keep them down. But when you get above about 5 mph the fins rotate rearward and upward. They are connected to the nozzle so therefore they turn with the nozzle. When in the up position the fins and the cross member clear the reverse gate and do not rub at any angle. The only occasion where the cross member will rub the reverse bucket is when the fins are up and you slam the throttle to reverse while at speeds above 5 mph. That will then cause the reverse bucket to return the fins to the lowest position providing additional control while slowing down.

 

[ScarabMike]

I really dont care how damaging or misleading this thread is. You telling these guys can be seen as the same. But, I am trying to save them from making a mistake, and you are trying to make a profit. This community is all about US helping each other. That includes helping our vendors, and it also lets us take a vendor to task when there is a reason to.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

You've referenced a Yamaha Thrust Vector video. The fin design is completely different on the BRP versions.

Also if you rotate the fins with your hand you can rotate them further than the water flow can. It is possible to rotate the fins while on the trailer to such a degree that your argument would make sense. But when in the water the flow of the thrust is not upward. It is rearward so it can't press the fins any higher than the surface of the cross member dictates.

 

[Briwhy]

I have thrust vectors on my 2015 Glastron gts207 and I went outside and pushed up on my reverse bucket as far as it would go and the fins don't hit the bucket but the bracket in the middle holding the fins together does and doesn't let the fins flip up to there full potential.