Advice for setting up a new trailer?

[Ratket]

General rule of thumb is “ Tongue weight = 10% of total weight”. Personally if it was 300 pounds or more I’d feel more comfortable, but at 200 pounds, that seems awfully light.

And I agree with you the boat appears to be way to far back.

From looking at @Betik photos of his same trailer, he has his rear bunks slid back about 3 feet further than your”s. From judging by the photos your boat appears to be a little further back than his by going off of the curves of the boat and the wheel wells. “ I think I read you guys have the same boat and same trailer, so all things being equal.”

Maybe you can talk to him and see what he towed with, what type of terrain, how his towing experience has been, you may be ok, here are pictures of his boat and urs for reference.

 

[drewkaree]

This is my decidedly uneducated take on your pics - either the boat needs to go forward, or the axles/wheels need to go backwards to get the tongue weight in line with something a little bit safer.

Given that you don't like the overhang on the back, I'm guessing you want to move it forward. If I'm seeing correctly, the way to accomplish this is to raise the bunks. This will allow you to raise the winch, and since the winch post is angled, this will give you some forward movement. Not sure if it'll be enough, but that's my cursory view of your pics and the situation.

 

[drewkaree]

I didn't need much movement of my winch post to gain 100#, maybe 1/2-5/8", but I have a lot more room to adjust than your trailer. Honestly, and this is just my opinion, that trailer seems like it isn't a good fit for your boat. I am only able to judge this based on the info you have given, but I would not be happy dealing with trying to make my boat fit that trailer if I were you.

 

[drewkaree]

Looking online, the Venture Com-5300 is listed as being for a 20-22' boat, and the Com-6000 is for a 22-24' boat. Not sure of the specs for the 5600, but it seems like it's undersized for your 24' boat.

*edit* 2018 VBT-5600 says it's for a 21-23' boat, which jives with the appearance to me, about a foot short. Not sure if that's your trailer, but it's what I found with a quick search.

 

[Betik]

@Ratket since that video was taken my boat/trailer set up change a lot. That being said, when the boat had that setup, I made a trip from Dallas to Hot Springs Arkansas. Towing on the highway was not issue at all. Making tight turns was female canine. The between 6 feet of tongue and the axles being real far bank it felt like towing an 18 wheeler of sort. There were a couple of turns that with my old trailer I will take without even looking at the mirror and with this set up I had to take an extra lane, to avoid the curb. Not fun at all.

I am going to upload some pictures from the cell phone shortly, but since then my rear axle has moved in front of the "front" axle. I have folding tongue and the boat+ trailer now take no more than 24 feet. When I sold my old trailer and I HAD to move the boat on a the new trailer ( set for an outboard), my tongue weight 875lbs and I could feel every bump of the road anomaly from the lake to the house ( 25 miles). Since then my tongue weight has always been between 350lbs and 400lbs. Theoretically we could go as low at 250lbs, but that is too light for my taste. My truck suspension has a modification that does not let it squid even with 1,000lbs on it, so I like to keep my tongue a bit heavy.

 

[Betik]

Visual reference of rear axle to boat. Notice that the rear handle sits on top of the rear axle.

Actual measurement for end of aluminum frame to rear axle

 

[Betik]

End of aluminum frame to front axle measurement

 

[Betik]

Center bunks spacing.
Also notice how the rear part of the center bunks is set up to be guide and during transport it carries no weight

 

[Betik]

And if you wonder how a guide bunk works, check out this short but very telling video

 

[Ratket]

@Ratket since that video was taken my boat/trailer set up change a lot. That being said, when the boat had that setup, I made a trip from Dallas to Hot Springs Arkansas. Towing on the highway was not issue at all. Making tight turns was female canine. The between 6 feet of tongue and the axles being real far bank it felt like towing an 18 wheeler of sort. There were a couple of turns that with my old trailer I will take without even looking at the mirror and with this set up I had to take an extra lane, to avoid the curb. Not fun at all.

I am going to upload some pictures from the cell phone shortly, but since then my rear axle has moved in front of the "front" axle. I have folding tongue and the boat+ trailer now take no more than 24 feet. When I sold my old trailer and I HAD to move the boat on a the new trailer ( set for an outboard), my tongue weight 875lbs and I could feel every bump of the road anomaly from the lake to the house ( 25 miles). Since then my tongue weight has always been between 350lbs and 400lbs. Theoretically we could go as low at 250lbs, but that is too light for my taste. My truck suspension has a modification that does not let it squid even with 1,000lbs on it, so I like to keep my tongue a bit heavy.

Thanks @Betik this should all help the OP out.

 

[msavold]

Update:
Shot the week end working on this (and now can't get photos to upload) and now am much happier with things (except the front bunks - more on that later). Found a photo of the old trailer, put my engineer's hat on, did some rough mental calcs and moved the bloody winch thingy forward 18"!
Like @Betik found with his original setup, the 'tongue' portion of this trailer is so bloody long (about 4' from where the side frames bolt to ti (the Y part?) to the ball and turns involve multiple lanes. (GREAT fun at night with a dark blue boat.) So, why not move the winch to in front of the Y onto the 4x6 box girder that attached to the hitch???
Long story short, moved the winch and boat forward almost exactly 18". Smacked myself on forehead for not having thought of this immediately with the hand not bruised by fighting a cross-threaded nut.
Now, I get a tongue weight of just shy of 300# with half tanks of gas. Phew.
Didn't re-check after filling tanks since it was dark by the time I winterized and I was baked but I would expect a bit of an improvement. The back of the fuel tank is roughly over the rear axle so the moment arm generated by the extra fuel ain't that great - but it's something.
I suspect when I get a chance to tweak it some more (maybe move the winch forward a couple more inches, maybe move the axles back 3" or 4") that would put me square in the mid-300s which would put me at 7-8% of GVW, in line with manufacturer's recommendations.
Side benefit: turns are a bit better now. Still what my neighbor calls 'a big ass boat' though.
Pics to follow.
Thanks all!

 

[msavold]

@drewkaree, the explanation I got from the manufacturer originally is that the length to be considered as 'critical' should be from bow eye to the transom. SX240 is measured by a guy so naturally there's some 'rounding up' and actual length is 23'6" (from Yamaha). Subtract distance from bow to bow eye and subtract swim platform, consider weight, and voila', -5300 is "right size" according to manufacturer.
Doesn't mean I don't have a call in to see about swapping for a -6000.
Anyway, it does look MUCH better now - USB cable is damaged and why is there never another one around when you need one?
But I'm still stumped as to how you can get so much tongue weight variation with so little forward movement? I'm guessing distance from ball to front of boat is less? (Shorter moment arm?)

@Betik , thanks for the measurements! Will cross check next week end out of curiosity when we get back to where the boat is... Really appreciate all your input - Mel will be proud of how you're carrying on his legacy!

 

[swatski]

Update:
Shot the week end working on this (and now can't get photos to upload) and now am much happier with things (except the front bunks - more on that later). Found a photo of the old trailer, put my engineer's hat on, did some rough mental calcs and moved the bloody winch thingy forward 18"!
Like @Betik found with his original setup, the 'tongue' portion of this trailer is so bloody long (about 4' from where the side frames bolt to ti (the Y part?) to the ball and turns involve multiple lanes. (GREAT fun at night with a dark blue boat.) So, why not move the winch to in front of the Y onto the 4x6 box girder that attached to the hitch???
Long story short, moved the winch and boat forward almost exactly 18". Smacked myself on forehead for not having thought of this immediately with the hand not bruised by fighting a cross-threaded nut.
Now, I get a tongue weight of just shy of 300# with half tanks of gas. Phew.
Didn't re-check after filling tanks since it was dark by the time I winterized and I was baked but I would expect a bit of an improvement. The back of the fuel tank is roughly over the rear axle so the moment arm generated by the extra fuel ain't that great - but it's something.
I suspect when I get a chance to tweak it some more (maybe move the winch forward a couple more inches, maybe move the axles back 3" or 4") that would put me square in the mid-300s which would put me at 7-8% of GVW, in line with manufacturer's recommendations.
Side benefit: turns are a bit better now. Still what my neighbor calls 'a big ass boat' though.
Pics to follow.
Thanks all!

Sounds great! The guidelines for boat trailers, at least Shorlandr, actually call for 5-7% for tongue weight, so you should be right where you need to be!

--

 

[msavold]

@Betik one more thing, I re-read your post - thought I'd mis-read about swapping axles! Not really a possibility with this trailer - though there is still plenty of room for movement.
Thanks to @Scuba_ref's transfer to HI, I've ended up with more of a Rolls-Royce of a trailer than I was originally considering for a great price. Thing has double torsion axles with disc brakes on all four wheels. Moving all that plumbing is way more than I care to tackle - especially since I'm so close to ideal weight now. I'm thinking a slight shift is all I need - and I have the winter to do the math that goes along with it!

 

[drewkaree]

But I'm still stumped as to how you can get so much tongue weight variation with so little forward movement? I'm guessing distance from ball to front of boat is less? (Shorter moment arm?)

I think mine is a combination of the hitch I have, and the trailer. The hitch I use is a Weigh Safe, and I can fiddle with the tongue weight by moving the ball carrier up/down on the hitch assembly. The trailer I've got is the Shoreland'r that came with the boat, and there's a pic of my setup floating around here somewhere that I can't seem to find. The winch post I've got is decidedly less angled than yours as well, so mine will take far less movement to affect tongue weight. If you look at the angle on your winch post, it's headed towards your vehicle, and the carrier for the winch has a far more severe angle towards the boat than my stock trailer. I don't know how your original trailer was, but if it's like mine, the winch post only angles back at the boat, so any movement of the post will make a lot bigger difference than the setup on your new trailer.

It's good to hear you could easily slide it forward of the Y. I wasn't sure if there was enough room, and I didn't really give much thought to just how much you might actually have to move it to affect your tongue weight. 18" is HUGE to me, but I hadn't really processed your pics in my mind, it just looked like you were as far forward as you were going to be able to go.

If it's possible for you to move the wheels forward, like @Betik said, it'll make turns a whole lot nicer. I drive a semi for a living, and there's a huge difference between a 53' trailer and a 48' trailer, but if I can move the wheels forward on a 53', I can make it dance like it's 10' shorter than it actually is. That being said, it's my experience that the longer the wheelbase, the easier it is to back up a trailer, so you may want to just leave those wheels where they are if you can get your tongue weight in line with where you want it to be.

 

[Chewiem16]

@drewkaree, the explanation I got from the manufacturer originally is that the length to be considered as 'critical' should be from bow eye to the transom. SX240 is measured by a guy so naturally there's some 'rounding up' and actual length is 23'6" (from Yamaha). Subtract distance from bow to bow eye and subtract swim platform, consider weight, and voila', -5300 is "right size" according to manufacturer.
Doesn't mean I don't have a call in to see about swapping for a -6000.
Anyway, it does look MUCH better now - USB cable is damaged and why is there never another one around when you need one?
But I'm still stumped as to how you can get so much tongue weight variation with so little forward movement? I'm guessing distance from ball to front of boat is less? (Shorter moment arm?)

@Betik , thanks for the measurements! Will cross check next week end out of curiosity when we get back to where the boat is... Really appreciate all your input - Mel will be proud of how you're carrying on his legacy!

So what was the actual measurement from the boweye?

And now I understand that those front bunks are just for guides. So it’s ok if my new trailer won’t have them? they are impossible to find. I was planning on getting guide poles either way to help with all that.

I have the sx240 as well. Which trailers did you guys end up getting so I can make something work for me when these things finally make it to the dealers.

 

[Betik]

Mine is a LoadRite 5STAR

 

[msavold]

@Chewiem16 sorry about the late reply but I've been swamped and not spending the usual hours on the forum...!
I ended up sticking with the Venture COM-5300. Also, your post made me realize that I never posted the "after" pictures. And I did end up moving it forward a couple more inches for a total of about 20" from where it was before
IMO, it looks "appropriate" - and the trailer tongue scale told the balance - running about 8% of my estimate of the total weight, so in the right ballpark.
As for the length from bow eye to transom (where transom is the vertical bit below the swim platform, I've misplaced the measurements but I seem to remember it was about 19'? Trailer's in storage and boat's on lift otherwise I'd check... Sorry.
Thanks again for all the help folks!

 

[Seadeals]

I can only offer that the general look of everything does appear “off”. The boat is way farther back than I would normally expect. I know different boats and trailers; but the aft edge of my hull sits a couple inches ahead of the back bunk edge. It may not be the wrong trailer; but with that specific winch/roller setup forcing it so far back, your tongue weight problem make sense. Is there not a different winch/roller setup you could swap to shift it forward? It does look much better now.

 

[Chewiem16]

thanks for the reply guys! We‘ve done the best we can for now. It’s balanced right on the bunks at least where the keel isn’t hitting the triangle keel centering wedge. Going to have to take it back to the trailer guy for suggestions. We cant move the bunks out Any further to have it sit on the chines at all. The bow stop sweet spot is right where the aluminum meets the tongue.