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Cobra Steering MAGNUM vs ULTIMATE

Five Faces

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Trying to decipher all the hoopla between Ultimate/Super/Duper/Mega/Magnum searching this forum and Cobra Steering Systems website has my head spinning!!! I've read the website and some extra lengthy posts on this forum and still cant tell the difference between the Ultimate and the Magnum.

1. Is it just that one is spring loaded?
2. Does the spring loaded version stay in the down position when on plane at speed or does it retract similar to the thrust vectors?
3. Do both versions work with JBP lateral thrusters?
4. In a couple of sentences can someone tell me the difference between the Ultimate and the Magnum version of the Cobra AK's???

I am a simple man and need a simple answers. (looking to purchase for a 2017 242XE)

Thanks!
 

tdonoughue

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Yes, @4x15mph is exactly correct with his tag to the owner/inventor/manufacturer of them.

However, expect no simple answers when it comes to these products. A source of great contest on the board here, with some preferring one and some preferring the other and some saying this and some saying that. Some saying they are needed, others not, and others in between. Just fair warning there. :)
 

Five Faces

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Here is what I know (I think?)...

1. A jet boat will never have outboard, I/O, inboard steering, but I want as close as I can possibly get.
2. I want a 100% down in the water solution at all speeds such as one of the Cobra Steering Systems.
3. I want the Jet Boat Pilots Lateral Thrusters.

So some combination of the Cobra AK (Super Ultimate or Super Magnum?) with fangs (Mega or original?) along with the Jet Boat Pilot Lateral Thrusters for a 2017 Yam 242X.
 
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tdonoughue

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My opinions (which are just that, folks--people are free to disagree):

1) True, but an outboard/I/O/inboard will never have jet boat steering. :) Meaning, they are inherently different. Upside to jet boat steering is the small draft, maintenance, etc. Operationally, I would argue some additional manueverability for jets. Anyway... I do get your point.
2) Those do that. So right track there. I don't have them, so I will not comment on the pros/cons or my opinions, as they are not well-informed.
3) I have those. Cool little mod there. Using them does take a fair bit of practice. Go download the sheet from JBP that tells you how to use them (which way to steer, how to position the throttle(s) in order to cause what effect). Review that closely. Basically the mod works well and does what it says it does, in my experience, but also a) maybe often not as much as you might think and b) the operation can be counter-intuitive (so in an emergency manuever, if you are not used to them and do the 'old' thing you were used to doing, you may be going the wrong way or not having the expected result).

Hope that helps some.
 

Five Faces

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Go download the sheet from JBP that tells you how to use them (which way to steer, how to position the throttle(s) in order to cause what effect).
Where can I find this, looked everywhere without any luck.

I'm downsizing from a 40' motor yacht so I'm very familiar with steering with throttles in both forward and reverse. Don't get me wrong, I well aware that this will be drastically different, but where it will be similar is in the throttle input in reverse (starboard reverse throttle to move stern laterally to port), you will simply need to add a little steering input to engage the lateral thrusters (starboard reverse throttle to move stern laterally to port PLUS some starboard clockwise wheel input).

Do I have this correct? Perhaps I'm oversimplifying it, which I tend to do.
 

Dixie Highway

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I’ll defer to the manufacturer on the differences between the systems, but with the Mega Fang Plus’s I get a ton of reverse control and can basically slide the stern either direction. The Magnum setup has pretty fair control even off throttle and turning. I don’t believe you can get the Mega Fangs to work with the JBP LT’s, but the standard ones will? Others have made the two systems work together, lots of info on here to detail how.
 

tdonoughue

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My bad; it is not actually on their site. Will posted it here... https://jetboaters.net/threads/lateral-thruster-reverse-maneuver-reference-guide.17788/

A little oversimplified. You have to steer the opposite direction, then engage the engine on the side to which you steered. The non-steered side actually operates as stock. Then, of course, when you add in the other engine (either forward or backward) you get different effects. The graphic helps more than I can probably explain...
 

Five Faces

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You have to steer the opposite direction, then engage the engine on the side to which you steered.
Thanks for the link. After reviewing it, it appears to operate as I expected. In fact I believe we said the same thing using different language.
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

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If you want full time steering and the second tie rod to balance out your steering system and if you want to be able to steer off power make S turn with no thrust. And if you want steering for water sport activities that is super effective and does not make it difficult to turn the wheel at speed and have tempered aluminum fins that do not hang down low or cause spray behind the boat and you really want the fangs for improved reverse by increasing the usable reverse not reduce it plus a power steering effect and increased stopping power in reverse then you should consider installing the super magnum AK steering with the mega fang plus setup , also look at some of the videos done by @swatski showing high speed turning with very little speed bleed off and off power steering with that same system. And if you want steering for water sport activities that is super effective and does not make it difficult to turn the wheel at speed, The total cost for that entire setup I just mentioned is $589.99 with free shipping.
Or get the spring loaded Super ultimate system with the mega fang plus for $649.98 the main difference is slightly larger fins, the ability to decide if you want only slow speed assistance or full time assistance "MY choice would be full time for sure" and if you want spring loaded fins if you run in rivers with a lot of objects floating or shallow water with lots of obstructions however in either case my steering does not hang below the rudder .
 

Five Faces

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If you get Jeff’s complete system you do not need the lateral thrusters I thought I did I bought them and then I sold them on the forum here.
Just curious, did you install and test them? Or were you satisfied with the results of the complete Cobra solution and didn’t bother installing them?

I agree that it is not needed...however coming from the type of boating where bow and stern thrusters are common, I like the concept. I always back into slips and having stern thrusters appeal to me. I understand that it’s not right for everyone.
 

Liveto99

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I was satisfied with Cobra it handled like a regular boat. i was on another boat with the lateral thrusters and tried them out. They worked great when you were steering all the way to one side or the other. But reverse was not as powerful the rest of the time or as responsive turning the boat unless it was fully turned. So Cobra is smooth and predictable from a little turn to all the way. The thrusters don’t turn much but then go directly sideways. So I stuck with what was working. I have two motors with the Cobra system I can spin my boat in place ether direction. If I had one motor and needed to spin the boat to get it in somewhere maybe then the thruster.
i put the boat in this spot turn off the engines and then tie it up with out ever touching the sides people just stand there and watch it is cool. (Not on this windy a day) but I got it out of there this day with the wind. CB669B58-DFAA-40AD-93A2-4ACD99E4E0D6.png
 

swatski

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I was satisfied with Cobra it handled like a regular boat. i was on another boat with the lateral thrusters and tried them out. They worked great when you were steering all the way to one side or the other. But reverse was not as powerful the rest of the time or as responsive turning the boat unless it was fully turned. So Cobra is smooth and predictable from a little turn to all the way. The thrusters don’t turn much but then go directly sideways. So I stuck with what was working. I have two motors with the Cobra system I can spin my boat in place ether direction. If I had one motor and needed to spin the boat to get it in somewhere maybe then the thruster.
i put the boat in this spot turn off the engines and then tie it up with out ever touching the sides people just stand there and watch it is cool. (Not on this windy a day) but I got it out of there this day with the wind. View attachment 110197
That is the best description of the LTs' functionality I've seen to date.

Personally, I am and always will be a Cobra guy, as long as I own a YJB, for simple reason those add steering capability at speed - with no thrust.

As far as spinning around at slow speeds, I don't know anyone who would consider these boats anything less than very maneuverable around the docks, stock, lol. Of the two things that are different in handling low speed wander can be helped with either of the two systems, however steering the boat at speed without engine thrust can only be done with fins that sit down (at speed).

Personally, the loss of steering ability at speed when losing thrust is the most unsettling feature of our boats, stock. Also the hardest thing to get used to for me. It's like leaning the wrong way in fast turns in a small catamaran, or riding a motorcycle with a sidecar if you know what I mean, lol - still gives me a jolt of angst.

With Cobras down I can reduce power or cut the engines off at any speed and I can still steer the boat.

--
 

Five Faces

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To clarify and address my original post...I’m not considering anything other than the Cobra’s for a forward steering enhancement. A 100% down, 100% all of the time, at any speed system. It’s the clear choice for me. It’s only the reverse enhancement that I’m contemplating. It’s sounds like I can’t go wrong with either the Mega Fangs or the JBP Lateral Thrusters. Maybe I’ll try them both and then decide.
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

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Basically the Ultimate style is spring loaded, adjustable and can be set to stay in the water at all speeds or you can set the fins to lift up partially or completely out of the water at planing speeds, both magnums style and ultimate style fins are adjustable for varying the effect at speed , both are now only available in the super style with added fin surfaces that automatically increase their influence when the boat is off plane operating in slow speed docking mode for increased forward and reverse influence while operating at those lower speeds , the AK style of both are for the newer boats with articulating keels thus the AK in the names and then we have the AK-19 models to accommodate the newer AK steering systems with the 2019 and newer nozzle designs. All AK and AK 19 twin engine systems also add the second tie rod to balance out the steering system and provide redundancy to it as well.
Important note to this, the days of one size fits all are long gone, we now have several different nozzles and several different reverse hood designs as well as boats with rudders so I place my information on my web site and invite people to contact me directly if they want some help in choosing the best system for their style of boating. I have always had my phone number on my site as well to address any questions , I began the aftermarket steering systems back in 2001 when I purchased a jet boat and hated how it handled, built a system for it and loved how it changed the boat, it made me feel like I just bough a totally new one, I smiled every time I sat behind the wheel driving that boat. Since then I have designed numerous steering systems for a variety of Jet boats and P W C s. I do this because it is my passion I never hire marketing people and I don't NEED to sell anything but I sure do enjoy hearing from people when they take their boat out for the first time and experience exactly what my steering systems do for the jet boat feel haaa to hell with that I like the fighter jet feel! You can run circles around a regular jet boat or prop boat if you add one of my steering systems to your boat.
 
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Liveto99

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Trying to decipher all the hoopla between Ultimate/Super/Duper/Mega/Magnum searching this forum and Cobra Steering Systems website has my head spinning!!! I've read the website and some extra lengthy posts on this forum and still cant tell the difference between the Ultimate and the Magnum.

1. Is it just that one is spring loaded?
2. Does the spring loaded version stay in the down position when on plane at speed or does it retract similar to the thrust vectors?
3. Do both versions work with JBP lateral thrusters?
4. In a couple of sentences can someone tell me the difference between the Ultimate and the Magnum version of the Cobra AK's???

I am a simple man and need a simple answers. (looking to purchase for a 2017 242XE)

Thanks!
1. Just the Ultimate is spring loaded.
2. You can set it to stay in the water or retract a little bit or all the way out.
3. Yes but you can not use the (Fangs) the fangs are the pieces that help with the “power steering effect” and with the reverse thrust with the Cobra system.
4. The Ultimate system has springs and can be adjusted to come out of the water as speed increases. The amount it comes out can be adjuste, or it can be set not to come out of the water at speed.
The Magnum is always in the water to give you more control with or with out jet thrust at all speeds.

I think I figured out Jeff’s stuff now.
 

Cobra Jet Steering LLC

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You need a minimum of a crypto clearance for that!
 

Weeb

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To clarify and address my original post...I’m not considering anything other than the Cobra’s for a forward steering enhancement. A 100% down, 100% all of the time, at any speed system. It’s the clear choice for me. It’s only the reverse enhancement that I’m contemplating. It’s sounds like I can’t go wrong with either the Mega Fangs or the JBP Lateral Thrusters. Maybe I’ll try them both and then decide.
I have the Magnum AK with ORIGINAL Fangs with the JBP Thrusters. The mega fangs don’t work with the thrusters. I have a post here somewhere with a couple pictures. You put the front bolt in the fang raise the back a little so the front is out of the way of the JBP Lateral Thruster and drill a new hole in the Magnum bolt it with the supplied bolt and your good to go. Great setup. I have a 2017 AR240. Hope that helps. No springs on the Magnums.
 

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Where can I find this, looked everywhere without any luck.

I'm downsizing from a 40' motor yacht so I'm very familiar with steering with throttles in both forward and reverse. Don't get me wrong, I well aware that this will be drastically different, but where it will be similar is in the throttle input in reverse (starboard reverse throttle to move stern laterally to port), you will simply need to add a little steering input to engage the lateral thrusters (starboard reverse throttle to move stern laterally to port PLUS some starboard clockwise wheel input).

Do I have this correct? Perhaps I'm oversimplifying it, which I tend to do.
 

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