EV discussion - hate or love?

[Bluewater272]

gross profit, still expected to lose billions this year. Still the right direction I guess, lol.

 

[2kwik4u]

gross profit, still expected to lose billions this year. Still the right direction I guess, lol.

Yeap, better than a gross loss. SEG&A is hard to control on a startup. Especially a manufacturing based startup. Have to balance losses against cash reserves and expand at just the right pace. Shits hard, especially at that scale. Probably why there aren't more automotive startups that make it.

 

[BlkGS]

It's just above freezing usually. Mid-high 30's usually. Really cold nights (0-10 outside) will see it dip into the teens and twenties. So, yea, it's cold out there. Have the back wall, ceiling, and half a side wall insulated as part of the habitable envelope. Garage door, floor, left wall, and half of right wall aren't insulated. Keeps the wind and water out, but does very little for heat.

Lots of people insulate the garage door and put small space heaters in to keep it in the 40's in the garage. We almost bought a house a month ago, big selling points where a heated floor and full insulation in the garage. Guy said it kept it in the 60's on even the closest days. Also had a drain, hot and cold water hose bins, and a small 4post lift with a try ceiling. We lost a bidding war, but were close.

I guess I never recognized how much benefit I got from my house in NC having the garage like 3/4 underground. The house was cut into the side of a hill, so I guess all that ground worked well as insulation, even when it was near zero outside, even with cheapo garage doors it never got below freezing in the garage.

Side note, Nikola went bust. That's another EV startups to fail.

 

[2kwik4u]

I guess I never recognized how much benefit I got from my house in NC having the garage like 3/4 underground. The house was cut into the side of a hill, so I guess all that ground worked well as insulation, even when it was near zero outside, even with cheapo garage doors it never got below freezing in the garage.

Side note, Nikola went bust. That's another EV startups to fail.

Interesting article from 2018. Just a short 6.5yrs ago.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g24268804/automotive-startups-explained/

I think Waymo, and Lucid are the only ones on the list that made it this far relatively unchanged. Interesting that Nikola and Rivian aren't mentioned. Some others that have come and gone like Canoo aren't mentioned either.

Another interesting thought. When was the last ICE based vehicle startup that succeeded at some level? Delorean? There's been some new brands, like RAM spinning off from Dodge, but I can't remember a genuinely new company since Delorean. Maybe Ineos with the Grenadier, but they're an oil and gas company that decided to make cars. Huge pockets there, so I'm not sure that counts as a startup.

 

[BlkGS]

Smart probably, maybe Pagani? Or one of those small niche companies. But car brands typically don't do "startup", it's easier to buy the assets/name of a dead ICE brand and fo that route.

Does Genesis count?

 

[2kwik4u]

Smart probably, maybe Pagani? Or one of those small niche companies. But car brands typically don't do "startup", it's easier to buy the assets/name of a dead ICE brand and fo that route.

Does Genesis count?

Pagani might be. The others are just "brand engineering" mostly. Genesis is a Hyundai that broke out on their own; kind of like RAM, but with crossover between brands.

Kind of my point though. The general premise of making a "new" car company from thin air has been riddled with more failures than successes. That's not an EV thing, but an automotive industry thing.

 

[2kwik4u]

While not directly related.....by kind of EV adjacent. I signed up to go offroading in a month or so.

Northeast Rivian Club – NERC Spring 2025 Off-Roading event – Northeast Rivian Club The Northeast Rivian Club does this a few times a year. No idea if others have signed up yet or not, but I'm in. Get to have an off road coach drive you around and give some basic instructions. This place does the coaching. offroad-consulting.com

Plan is to drive down Thursday, off-road/socialize Fri/Sat, then drive home Sun. Truck can make it there on a single charge, but will need to charge before going out on the trails, then again before coming home. We got a hotel in Bloomberg, PA that has a charger, and there is both a Tesla SC as well as an EA station there in town. Shouldn't be an issue with both stations having high scores on Plugshare.

Figured the truck came with the all terrain package, might as well see if it's all it's cracked up to be. Again, being EV adjacent to the post here, I do think there are only a handful of EV's that could do this. Rivian, and the Hummer. Not sure I would want to do this with a G-Wagon EV, but I would guess it's at least somewhat capable here.

 

[BlkGS]

Pagani might be. The others are just "brand engineering" mostly. Genesis is a Hyundai that broke out on their own; kind of like RAM, but with crossover between brands.

Kind of my point though. The general premise of making a "new" car company from thin air has been riddled with more failures than successes. That's not an EV thing, but an automotive industry thing.

It's also probably a lot harder to develop and break into the ICE market, especially in the US, than it is the EV or any other market. The red tape you have to go through from a emissions or crash testing perspective is huge and expensive. Then you have to build a franchise dealer network, eat warranty costs, and convince people to buy you new car vs the established brands. Look at the failure of Alfa and Fiat in the US, these were both known existing brands and they couldn't pierce the market here.

It's way easier and more lucrative to startup a company doing something else, anything else just about. Baby food is probably the only thing regulated tighter than ICE cars.

 

[BlkGS]

While not directly related.....by kind of EV adjacent. I signed up to go offroading in a month or so.

Northeast Rivian Club – NERC Spring 2025 Off-Roading event – Northeast Rivian Club The Northeast Rivian Club does this a few times a year. No idea if others have signed up yet or not, but I'm in. Get to have an off road coach drive you around and give some basic instructions. This place does the coaching. offroad-consulting.com

Plan is to drive down Thursday, off-road/socialize Fri/Sat, then drive home Sun. Truck can make it there on a single charge, but will need to charge before going out on the trails, then again before coming home. We got a hotel in Bloomberg, PA that has a charger, and there is both a Tesla SC as well as an EA station there in town. Shouldn't be an issue with both stations having high scores on Plugshare.

Figured the truck came with the all terrain package, might as well see if it's all it's cracked up to be. Again, being EV adjacent to the post here, I do think there are only a handful of EV's that could do this. Rivian, and the Hummer. Not sure I would want to do this with a G-Wagon EV, but I would guess it's at least somewhat capable here.

Is there a G-Wagen EV? That's kind of silly.

Speaking of silly, every time I drove by our GMC dealer they have a crapload of Hummer EVs sitting around for sale. They're kinda neat looking. It's a damn shame the Silverado RST doesn't have their crazy 1000hp motor setup, they missed out there big time. Maybe they're just saving it for an SS model? Would think you'd want to announce that though so people don't write the truck off.

 

[2kwik4u]

It's also probably a lot harder to develop and break into the ICE market, especially in the US, than it is the EV or any other market. The red tape you have to go through from a emissions or crash testing perspective is huge and expensive. Then you have to build a franchise dealer network, eat warranty costs, and convince people to buy you new car vs the established brands. Look at the failure of Alfa and Fiat in the US, these were both known existing brands and they couldn't pierce the market here.

It's way easier and more lucrative to startup a company doing something else, anything else just about. Baby food is probably the only thing regulated tighter than ICE cars.

THe only thing there that EV's don't have to deal with is emissions. Otherwise all the other crap is supposed to exist as well.

Tesla and Rivian just skip the dealer network and don't sell in states that require it.

I do agree that it's all a monumental challenge though.

 

[2kwik4u]

Is there a G-Wagen EV? That's kind of silly.

Speaking of silly, every time I drove by our GMC dealer they have a crapload of Hummer EVs sitting around for sale. They're kinda neat looking. It's a damn shame the Silverado RST doesn't have their crazy 1000hp motor setup, they missed out there big time. Maybe they're just saving it for an SS model? Would think you'd want to announce that though so people don't write the truck off.

We're niche buyers that want an SS pickup truck. They've never been sales leaders, just "neat" models for a few of us.

yea, EV G-Wagon exists. Does tank turns.

 

[BlkGS]

We're niche buyers that want an SS pickup truck. They've never been sales leaders, just "neat" models for a few of us.

yea, EV G-Wagon exists. Does tank turns.

Agreed, but the same could be said for any of these off-road EVs.

Tank turns. That's a new level of useless gimmick, lol. Mercedes I think was the first one to give us the LED light badge though, so I shouldn't be surprised. Probably fun still.