FSH 190 Won't Start - (Engine turns over)

[Akwoolf]

When you changed the plugs did you also check for spark? As in remove spark plug, connect to boot, lay plug electrode close to the block and then crank to look for spark? Swapping plugs won't help if there's no spark.

The tach issue could be related or not. Did you get an comm err warnings on display before this happened? I've read of issues with the ECM and there was strange tach behavior. Let's hope that is not it. Are you still under warranty just in case it is the ECM and you wouldn't have to foot the bill?

When troubleshooting along the way, I sprayed starting fluid into the air cleaner and it started to turn over. I assumed that this was an indication of spark.

I had one weird issue with the tach when I first ran into the problem- the tach turned all the way to 8 and stayed there and that's all she wrote, so to speak. No communication at all. Doesn't respond when I crank, nothing on the display, nada.

Unfortunately the boat is no longer under warranty.

Thanks again for the tips and suggestions.

 

[Scottintexas]

I have a dis-trust of most dealers because of some of the stories we hear, let me just be up front with that,
If you're out of time, you've got no choice,

I think I would have tried to get what information I could from the YDS, even a PWC shop can run it for you if you don't want to buy one,
For some reason I think I also remember another member with at tach stuck a while back but also can't find anything so maybe I'm making it up,

It's just so rare we hear about an ECU going out but that's about the price we hear,

 

[Akwoolf]

This may not be all inclusive, but below is a summary of most of the steps I performed while troubleshooting:

• Hooked up the batteries and the boat would not crank.
• Verified that batteries were hooked up properly. Both batteries were showing almost 100% charged.
• Checked fuses – the 20 Amp Main fuse was blown. Replaced.
• Checked all other fuses and they looked good (later replaced all fuses)
• Engine cranks over strong (After replacing the main 20 Amp fuse)
• Replaced batteries, just in case
• Replaced spark plugs. The ones that I removed were dry and looked almost new.
• Sprayed started fluid directly into air cleaner, engine momentarily acted like it wanted to start.
  
• During my troubleshooting, I’ve found that certain components, such as the fuel pump and multi-function tachometer are not operative
• Tested electrical connections to fuel pump with a multi-meter. Confirmed that no power is present in the electrical connection during crank. Tested fuel pump with a pig-tailed connection and validated fuel pump works when power is applied directly from the batteries.
• Tachometer never responds – it seems to me like the dial would at least move when it was cranking
• Tested shut-off switch. Removed and tested with multi-meter. Continuity when the lanyard is pulled, no continuity when lanyard is attached.
• Tested Fuel pump, ETV, and Main relays. They seem to be functional.
  • Wasn’t able to get reliable tests on the relay terminals.
• When I first ran into the problems, the tachometer turned all the way to 8 and stayed there. No movement or anything showing on the tach display.
• I referred to the Yamaha service manual for the test procedures outlined above. (Relay test, continuity and voltage tests, etc. – all outlined in chapter 7 of the service manual)
• I've done pretty much everything I can short of having the YDS/YDIS diagnostics done. The closest Yamaha dealer is about 60 miles away and I wanted to do my due-diligence prior to going through that process. Honestly, I thought that I would kick the ass of this problem. It irks me to no end that I haven't come up with the eureka moment of discovering the fix.

 

[Akwoolf]

I have a dis-trust of most dealers because of some of the stories we hear, let me just be up front with that,
If you're out of time, you've got no choice,

I think I would have tried to get what information I could from the YDS, even a PWC shop can run it for you if you don't want to buy one,
For some reason I think I also remember another member with at tach stuck a while back but also can't find anything so maybe I'm making it up,

It's just so rare we hear about an ECU going out but that's about the price we hear,

The first dealer I talked to also mentioned that they rarely replace the ECU...

 

[JDinfla]

Have you double checked the connections behind the switches? We have had things like the livewell pump not work and we just wiggled the wires on the back of the switch and it was fine. I would think the wires would be screwed to the connectors on the start switch and safety lanyard, but maybe something to check.

 

[Akwoolf]

Have you double checked the connections behind the switches? We have had things like the livewell pump not work and we just wiggled the wires on the back of the switch and it was fine. I would think the wires would be screwed to the connectors on the start switch and safety lanyard, but maybe something to check.

Thanks for the message - definitely checked all of those connections... Checked the continuity on the shut-off switch and everything was good. Whether or not the connection is registering with the ECU/ECM - that is a good question.

I am feeling really shaky about this decision, but I went ahead and ordered a new ECM. It may turn out to be an expensive mistake, but feels just as expensive not being able to be able to enjoy these awesome days out on the water. In Michigan, we don't get a long boating season, so I just went ahead bit the proverbial bullet. Worst case scenario, I own one of the three ECU/ECMs that are in the US currently. eBay may turn out to be my friend. I'll follow up in a week or two, once I get the new part installed.

I love this forum - it feels like a form of therapy for me. haha

Have a great Memorial Day weekend!

 

[Blindduck]

Man i feel for you. I went ahead and took mine to the dealership after trying to troubleshoot it. Think i put some bad gas and clogged fuel injectors. So i have been watching your thread just to see what the outcome is and how you resolved the issues just incase this happened to me in the future. So with that said good luck.

 

[Frank Marshall]

It sure looks like you have identified the problem. No fuel. It tried to start with starter fluid and you confirmed no electrical to the fuel pump.

I have a different engine in my 210 fsh (TR1) and thus a different service manual. But it says there is a relay to check for proper electrical operation. Does your manual have something similar?

I attached the pdf file

It says there is also a fuse for the fuel pump in the same fuse box as the relay.

 

[Akwoolf]

This may not be all inclusive, but below is a summary of most of the steps I performed while troubleshooting:

• Hooked up the batteries and the boat would not crank.
• Verified that batteries were hooked up properly. Both batteries were showing almost 100% charged.
• Checked fuses – the 20 Amp Main fuse was blown. Replaced.
• Checked all other fuses and they looked good (later replaced all fuses)
• Engine cranks over strong (After replacing the main 20 Amp fuse)
• Replaced batteries, just in case
• Replaced spark plugs. The ones that I removed were dry and looked almost new.
• Sprayed started fluid directly into air cleaner, engine momentarily acted like it wanted to start.
  
• During my troubleshooting, I’ve found that certain components, such as the fuel pump and multi-function tachometer are not operative
• Tested electrical connections to fuel pump with a multi-meter. Confirmed that no power is present in the electrical connection during crank. Tested fuel pump with a pig-tailed connection and validated fuel pump works when power is applied directly from the batteries.
• Tachometer never responds – it seems to me like the dial would at least move when it was cranking
• Tested shut-off switch. Removed and tested with multi-meter. Continuity when the lanyard is pulled, no continuity when lanyard is attached.
• Tested Fuel pump, ETV, and Main relays. They seem to be functional.
  • Wasn’t able to get reliable tests on the relay terminals.
• When I first ran into the problems, the tachometer turned all the way to 8 and stayed there. No movement or anything showing on the tach display.
• I referred to the Yamaha service manual for the test procedures outlined above. (Relay test, continuity and voltage tests, etc. – all outlined in chapter 7 of the service manual)
• I've done pretty much everything I can short of having the YDS/YDIS diagnostics done. The closest Yamaha dealer is about 60 miles away and I wanted to do my due-diligence prior to going through that process. Honestly, I thought that I would kick the ass of this problem. It irks me to no end that I haven't come up with the eureka moment of discovering the fix.

Next chapter of the story...

Ordered the ECU on 5/25. Received it in the mail today from Yamaha via a parts dealer in Oregon. Received it quicker than expected.

Ripped the packaging off the part, pulled the cover off the boat, removed the old ECU, installed the new ECU, turned on the battery switches.... And... with much anxiety... Turned the key.

....Less than a half a crank later, she is running!!! I can't even begin to express how much relief I felt at that moment...

Around 15 minutes from mailbox to running boat. I am not exactly thrilled having to spend over $1000 on my new-ish boat, but at least it was money well-spent.

Thanks for all of the tips and suggestions along the way. And, as I stated earlier - the Yamaha service manual is well-worth the cost if you want to get to know your boat intimately.

On to the marina!

 

[Scottintexas]

I'm happy to hear the boat is running again,

I'm still stumped as this is one the first issues we've heard about such a new ECU,

if it's that easy to swap out, after a days of running I might suggest switching the old one back in just to confirm again that was the problem,

Did you ever get a YDS ?

 

[Akwoolf]

I'm happy to hear the boat is running again,

I'm still stumped as this is one the first issues we've heard about such a new ECU,

if it's that easy to swap out, after a days of running I might suggest switching the old one back in just to confirm again that was the problem,

Did you ever get a YDS ?

The Yamaha service guys I spoke with mentioned that they don't change them out very often. I only read of one other instance on this forum where someone had to change out an ECU, much less a newer one.

After all of the troubleshooting, I was relatively -sort of- confident (based on my research, review of the service manual, and conversations with Yamaha guys) that it was the ECU. The biggest clue for them was the behavior of the tachometer, along with the other electrical symptoms. When I tested the terminals for the relays, I was getting either no - or abnormal - readings. The relays themselves tested out ok.

I did not purchase or hook up the YDS. I was a bit unclear if the ones floating around on the internet/eBay were compatible with the newer boats. If the new ECU hadn't worked, I would have been forced to take it to the dealer... One service guy doubted that the YDS would have helped if the actual issue was with the ECU. I don't know! I learned everything that I know about the boat while troubleshooting this issue. (Positive and negative aspects. haha)

Thanks!!

 

[ruztew]

Plug your old ECM back in and I bet it'll still crank

 

[Akwoolf]

O

Plug your old ECM back in and I bet it'll still crank

I don't want to imagine a world where that would be true. $$$ I prefer to live blissfully and ignorantly unaware. There is NO way that I am putting the old one back in after spending so much money on a replacement. haha

 

[Matts18]

Glad you got it running! I suspected the issue was ECU related since the tach was stuck on "8." Is it possible you could have accidentally or momentarily reversed polarity on any of the wires when hooking up the battery? I think I read a post where someone else fried an ECU that way.

 

[Tailwaters]

Glad to here the mystery I soloved. Not so happy to hear the cost of the repair. Just curious as to how many hours are on your boat and if Yamaha had an explanation as to what could have causdc the failure?

 

[Akwoolf]

Glad to here the mystery I soloved. Not so happy to hear the cost of the repair. Just curious as to how many hours are on your boat and if Yamaha had an explanation as to what could have causdc the failure?

I bought the boat at the end of the 2016 season. I have less than 50 hours on the boat. I didn't get any really good explanations along the way, but I suspect that it may have been something similar to what Matts18 mentioned a few posts above. I had a buddy help me get it ready for storage last fall. I had already disconnected the batteries but had him reconnect them "really quick" to check a few things out. I definitely wouldn't rule out some reverse-polarity situation. If that is the reason, I am surprised that there isn't some sort of internal protections to prevent frying the ECU. Whatever the cause, my first indication was a blown main fuse. Must have been quite a surge.

Regardless, I have -for better or for worse- learned a lot about the inner workings of the boat over the past few weeks - that is for sure!

 

[highanddryinco]

In hindsight...THIS:

but had him reconnect them "really quick" to check a few things out.

followed by THIS:

my first indication was a blown main fuse.

...may have been a good thing to lead in to the first post.

 

[Akwoolf]

In hindsight...THIS:
followed by THIS: ...may have been a good thing to lead in to the first post.

Excellent point, of course. I didn't mention the full troubleshooting steps until later in the thread. Also, I didn't even think about the reverse-polarity potential until it was mentioned a few posts ago.

I've edited the opening post for future readers. It has been quite a journey. Thanks for your comment.

 

[highanddryinco]

Bottom line, you're up and running again and can probably have confidence in knowing that there's not some weird ghost electrical problem that will re-surface out on the lake.
Confidence in your equipment is important.

 

[Danielmailin]

Yeah, that would do it. You'll be surprised how quick you can fry a vehicle PCM by just attempting to jump start a vehicle. See it all the time, other then lightning strikes in south Fl, now that wipes all types of modules in a car.