Hard (re)starting list-side engine (ballasted AR240, wake surfing)

[0627Devildog]

14' AR240 here and have the same issue of hard start on port engine while listing due to surfing.

I'm left wondering after reading this thread if starting the starboard engine and accelerating (to on or near plane) would reduce the water pressure on the port engine exhaust and allow for a quicker start?

I know, I know, you're not supposed to drive faster than no wake with one engine off. . . . .But would it matter for say 30-60 seconds needed? And more importantly would it work to get the exhaust high enough to help?

 

[swatski]

14' AR240 here and have the same issue of hard start on port engine while listing due to surfing.

I'm left wondering after reading this thread if starting the starboard engine and accelerating (to on or near plane) would reduce the water pressure on the port engine exhaust and allow for a quicker start?

I know, I know, you're not supposed to drive faster than no wake with one engine off. . . . .But would it matter for say 30-60 seconds needed? And more importantly would it work to get the exhaust high enough to help?

Funny you mention that...

I did actually do that, twice, when everything else seemed to have failed and I was just sitting there not sure what else to try while it was getting late/dark. It worked both times, however that is not to say it is a solution, I can not tell if it actually helped or not. Probably did - but just be preventing a complete discharge of a starter battery. My thinking was more along the lines "lets see if I can get a harder crank with stator-generated 14.5 voltage, maybe that will help". I have the dual bat setup and a Lithium backup starter, but with it getting dark I was not thrilled with a prospect of dealing with a dead battery anyhow.
(And having melted a couple of starters in the past, when I was younger and more impatient, lol, I have learned to take long time between short cranking sessions).

Now, to be perfectly clear:
Every time that I have had this scenario happened - I would end up with the "top" (higher, usually strbd) engine running while/ahead of trying to re-start the "lower" (usually port side). But only twice did I move the "top" engine throttle up to boost the RPM and volts. I figured I would be unlikely to exceed towing speeds allowed for one engine operation albeit I was worried about flooding the "lower" engine at this point. I do believe that water intrusion and back pressure are a major part of this deal. No issues though - after a successful re-start - smooth sailing.

Out of maybe 10-12 events so far I never needed a tow or to come back on one engine.
But I really don't want to be pushing my luck.

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[0627Devildog]

Funny you mention that...

Out of maybe 10-12 events so far I never needed a tow or to come back on one engine.
But I really don't want to be pushing my luck.

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Have you ever had the port engine stall while idling and configured for surfing. . . . . . That has happened to me 2-3 times that I recall.

 

[swatski]

Have you ever had the port engine stall while idling and configured for surfing. . . . . . That has happened to me 2-3 times that I recall.

No. (Or should I say not yet. lol. )

I would think that a stall in idle and a hard start maybe related (to back pressure, or whatever - causatively linked).

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[0627Devildog]

No. (Or should I say not yet. lol. )

I would think that a stall in idle and a hard start maybe related (to back pressure, or whatever - causatively linked).

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I wonder if the iridium plug mentioned before might help. . . . . . I just bought a new set of NGK LFR6A's for the season after I burn off the fogging solution. So I will keep better track of any stalls or hard starts this season. If any, I might witch plugs to see if it makes a difference in my case.

 

[swatski]

I wonder if the iridium plug mentioned before might help. . . . . . I just bought a new set of NGK LFR6A's for the season after I burn off the fogging solution. So I will keep better track of any stalls or hard starts this season. If any, I might witch plugs to see if it makes a difference in my case.

I agree, that may be worth a try. I would probably swap the plugs in one engine first and compare how it runs (vs "before" and in reference to the other - to account for weather conditions)
I had those in my 1.8 190, couldn't tell a difference - but - @KXCam22 knows his electrons! I could see how those iridiums could well be very helpful under these particular circumstances because of their design/properties.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

What if you make a tight turn toward the running engine idling fast, could it lift the other side of the boat higher to make it easier to start while you turn.. I have little doubt that the water pressure is causing the issue based on the scenarios.

 

[swatski]

What if you make a tight turn toward the running engine idling fast, could it lift the other side of the boat higher to make it easier to start while you turn.. I have little doubt that the water pressure is causing the issue based on the scenarios.

Yes, that is a very good idea.
Not sure why I didn't think of it... lol. And - I can use the port side tab (down) at the same time - drop it all the way - that will lift the stern on that side big time!
Thank you, Jeff.

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[txav8r]

It seems to me it is mostly self correcting regardless. You crank the engine for an extended period of time, the pressure clears the water from the exhaust, the ECM stabilizes, and the engine eventually starts.

 

[0627Devildog]

It seems to me it is mostly self correcting regardless. You crank the engine for an extended period of time, the pressure clears the water from the exhaust, the ECM stabilizes, and the engine eventually starts.

You would think. . . . .But it takes much more cranking to get there then it should IMHO. Anything to alleviate the cranking time necessary should be considered as long as it's not detrimental in another way.

 

[swatski]

You would think. . . . .But it takes much more cranking to get there then it should IMHO. Anything to alleviate the cranking time necessary should be considered as long as it's not detrimental in another way.

My thinking exactly.

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[Beachbummer]

What about shifting people forward to lift the stern? Not possible?


Just a thought

 

[0627Devildog]

What about shifting people forward to lift the stern? Not possible?

Just a thought

Someone mentioned that above. . . . In my case, I normally would not have enough people ballast to offset. Its usually just the wife, kids, and I.

 

[swatski]

What about shifting people forward to lift the stern? Not possible?


Just a thought

Maybe tricky, I have my best wake with close to 4,000 lbs of water ballast. I'm gonna need bigger friends.

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[Beachbummer]

point taken.

 

[0627Devildog]

What if you make a tight turn toward the running engine idling fast, could it lift the other side of the boat higher to make it easier to start while you turn.

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

I was looking for this thread so I could post my results when trying this. . . . . On my last outing we made a couple solid passes while surfing and turned off the engines to set up for the next surfer. Had a hard time restarting the port engine and remembered this thread and Jeff's suggestion above.

I started the Starboard Engine and came up to about 8mph.
Turned Hard to Starboard until I noticed the Port side lift.
Turned the Port ignition and viola!
We had instant ignition.

Made another 15-20 mins of runs and turned it off to attempt to replicate. Again, had hard start on Port Side. . . . until I repeated the process above.

While it may possibly be ENTIRELY coincidence, it worked twice in a row. So for all you surfers out there with hard start issues while ballasted and listing, make sure to try this before burning out your starter. Please come back and post your findings along with your setup.

Here is my general setup for reference:

250 Human Ballast
100 (ish) lbs of gear
400 Ski Locker
750 Under Port Seat
Dual Group 27 Batteries under port seat
400 Under Starboard Seat
800 Port side of Swim Platform
Port Side Wake Wedge

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thanks for the feedback on that, glad it helped.

 

[KXCam22]

Interesting. The additional water pressure while listed would not be that much higher, BUT, in my world 1 good test is worth 1000 expert opinions. Good find. Cam.

 

[0627Devildog]

Interesting. The additional water pressure while listed would not be that much higher, BUT, in my world 1 good test is worth 1000 expert opinions. Good find. Cam.

I dunno. . . .my swim platform is 4 inches inder water on the port corner when I am loaded.

 

[Cambo]

Maybe some type of hookup that you can force compressed air into the exhaust kind of like blowing out a sprinkler line . Not sure if it would just blow out the intake or if having a tank of compressed air would last for multiple applications.