Have you had a 1.8 timing chain failure, was it in warranty and how has Yamaha handled it?

[haknslash]

I have to agree, I have never been so disappointed with Yamaha. I feel I have been one of their better customers through the years (3 boats & 11 PWC's) and they have completely lost all of my trust. I can assure you this will be the last Yamaha product I own.
It really has taken the fun out of boating for us. I know several people just say forget it it's a rare failure, it will probably never happen again but believe me that's a lot easier said than done.

Wait. So you've had 14 Yamaha watercraft products and this is the first one to give you serious trouble? I'm sure if I bought 14 Honda Civics at least one of them would have an issue somewhere down the line before any of the others. You have a warranty and one engine I assume already got the upgraded components. If the other fails within your warranty period (highly unlikely IMHO) then you would have the other engine with upgraded components.

 

[JEvanoff]

Wait. So you've had 14 Yamaha watercraft products and this is the first one to give you serious trouble? I'm sure if I bought 14 Honda Civics at least one of them would have an issue somewhere down the line before any of the others. You have a warranty and one engine I assume already got the upgraded components. If the other fails within your warranty period (highly unlikely IMHO) then you would have the other engine with upgraded components.

I'm not upset about the issue itself, I'm upset about the way Yamaha has dealt with this failure. Instead of fixing the problem correctly they have put a Band-Aid over the issue. I think they should have replaced the entire motor or at least updated it to the level of the 2016 motors. In fact I think they should've updated both motors for anyone that is having this catastrophic failure.

 

[haknslash]

I'm not upset about the issue itself, I'm upset about the way Yamaha has dealt with this failure. Instead of fixing the problem correctly they have put a Band-Aid over the issue. I think they should have replaced the entire motor or at least updated it to the level of the 2016 motors. In fact I think they should've updated both motors for anyone that is having this catastrophic failure.

What band aid fix did they do to your boat? Sorry if I've missed where you posted what all work they did on the repair. If they only replaced it with 2015 parts then yea I'd be pissed and would ask they replace with the updated parts.

What Yamaha should do is issue a recall and replace anyone's timing chain components with the new parts. They aren't going to give everyone new motors because the motors themselves are identical inside except for the revised timing chain components and crank. The only time I can see them giving a new motor is if the block is destroyed. They would give you a new head, pistons and valve train than give you a complete new motor.

 

[JEvanoff]

What band aid fix did they do to your boat? Sorry if I've missed where you posted what all work they did on the repair. If they only replaced it with 2015 parts then yea I'd be pissed and would ask they replace with the updated parts.

What Yamaha should do is issue a recall and replace anyone's timing chain components with the new parts. They aren't going to give everyone new motors because the motors themselves are identical inside except for the revised timing chain components and crank. The only time I can see them giving a new motor is if the block is destroyed. They would give you a new head, pistons and valve train than give you a complete new motor.

All they did was a new head and timing chain, nothing else. So as far as I'm concerned it's not updated at all. What was really hard for me to believe was they said the pistons were ok.

 

[haknslash]

All they did was a new head and timing chain, nothing else. So as far as I'm concerned it's not updated at all. What was really hard for me to believe was they said the pistons were ok.

Yea in that case I wouldn't be that happy either since they had it apart and should have used the new parts. That's what they appear to be doing for members now who have had a timing chain failure. Hopefully you can have better luck. I know it sucks and nothing we or I can say will make you feel warm and fuzzy again about Yamaha's. Only time can regain the trust back to you.

Did you question the dealership or Mother Yamaha why they did not give you 2016 upgraded parts or perhaps you did not know they had made the upgrades during that time? I know dealers can be miles and hours away from owners, mine is about 2 hours away for instance, but it my boat were there I would have been a thorn in their side asking for all sorts of documentation of the work performed. Just for my own peace of mind ya know.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I believe you just got the the point. If you have one chain fail, while that is being repaired at great expense to Yamaha it may be a better idea for both Yamaha and the customer for them to replace the other chain at the same time . Better cost effectiveness in the long run and certainly better customer relations.

 

[JEvanoff]

Yea in that case I wouldn't be that happy either since they had it apart and should have used the new parts. That's what they appear to be doing for members now who have had a timing chain failure.

Exactly. Yamaha knows they have an issue on this and they need to do the right thing. Putting in the same parts isn't. It really frustrates me since they know how to fix the problem correctly since they have done it in the 2016 engines.

 

[JEvanoff]

I believe you just got the the point. If you have one chain fail, while that is being repaired at great expense to Yamaha it may be a better idea for both Yamaha and the customer for them to replace the other chain at the same time . Better cost effectiveness in the long run and certainly better customer relations.

Yes, because I will always be asking myself "when is this one going to go?"

 

[swatski]

There is no way in hell they can do that, given the frequency of failure in naturally aspirated 1.8l engines is WAY below the 1%. Just think about the economics of it.
Not excusing them, but this company coming out of huge economic downturn in boat sales, there is just no way.

 

[JEvanoff]

Another thing that keeps going through my mind is when I purchased the boat it was called "the flagship" I'm here to tell you I'm not calling it that!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

If your tires wear out and one goes flat do you just replace that one and take your chances with the others?

 

[Gym]

Another thing that keeps going through my mind is when I purchased the boat it was called "the flagship" I'm here to tell you I'm not calling it that!

Now, unfortunately, it's called the flagged ship.

 

[Evil Sports]

I checked this weekend and Im at 143 hours, should I be expecting fireworks anytime soon

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

There is no magic number, I have 350 on one that hatched and 350 on one that is still running fine. I had 650 on a 2010 supercharged with no issues

 

[Ancient canoe]

If your tires wear out and one goes flat do you just replace that one and take your chances with the others?

It's not a given that it breaks. Your tires wearing out is a given. Apples and oranges

In your analogy if there is a 1% chance of your other tires wearing out and going flat nobody would replace them.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I have no idea where that 1 percent came from or how accurate it is but I would think it will be increasing rapidly, a short time ago I had no idea about this effecting non supercharged engines so I ignored it. I was a total diehard for Yamaha 1800 engines so for this to cause me to loose faith like I did tells me that a lot more people will be feeling the same way when their chains break.

 

[JEvanoff]

I have no idea where that 1 percent came from or how accurate it is but I would think it will be increasing rapidly, a short time ago I had no idea about this effecting non supercharged engines so I ignored it. I was a total diehard for Yamaha 1800 engines so for this to cause me to loose faith like I did tells me that a lot more people will be feeling the same way when their chains break.

Amen

 

[MrMoose]

Wait. So you've had 14 Yamaha watercraft products and this is the first one to give you serious trouble? I'm sure if I bought 14 Honda Civics at least one of them would have an issue somewhere down the line before any of the others. You have a warranty and one engine I assume already got the upgraded components. If the other fails within your warranty period (highly unlikely IMHO) then you would have the other engine with upgraded components.

@haknslash, it would be interesting to see what Honda would do with this type of failure rate. Unfortunately, I can only assume that the auto industry is regulated with respect to situations like this, while the boating industry may not be.
The big thing that folks need to consider, especially Yamaha, is that the safety impact of the failure needs to be considered along with the rate of failure. If your Civic engine quits, you likely just use your cell phone and call for help (tow truck, AAA, cab, friend...). If your Yamaha engine quits, it will likely put you at greater personal risk. If you boat on a small lake with cell phone/vhf coverage, no biggy, but if you get hung up in big water, say while crossing the Gulf Stream on your way to Bimini, it could be catastrophic.

 

[haknslash]

I understand the safety stand point. Being stuck on he water would be a nightmare and it's happened to me although not with my boat. My point with Honda was just that I meant you could buy from a reliable company and still have issues.

 

[Bill D]

I wanted to find some rough stats to shine some light on this issue. But, data was WAY harder to come by than I assumed. So, here are just some rough thoughts...

There are nearly 40,000 PWC sold each year, about 40% of which are Yamaha's. I have no idea how many have 1.8L engines, but that's a lot of jet skis. Around 3,500 jet boats are sold each year. Yamaha has been the major player over the last 6-7 years, but there have been others going (Sea-Doo) and coming into the game (Scarab, Chapparal, Glastron, Sea Ray even had a model ready to launch). So let's just say that half of those were Yamahas... That's around 15,000 Yamaha boats sold between 2010-2017. Now, there are some variables here... which engine, how many engines, etc...

Out of our members, how many incidents of broken chains have we had? A handful? I think that is where the 1% @swatski mentioned was coming from.

Engines are complicated machines. Just because we have gotten used to the idea of our engines being "bullet-proof" doesn't make it any less likely to have a failure.