JL audio tower speakers, sub and amps

[FloJet]

The problem now days especially with the internet and all, everyone seems to think there is set bible in how to build systems. People go to competitions all the time with unheard of techniques and blow the competition out of the water who try to go by a set ways at times. So I try to incorporate what I learn/see and play around with them to see what better suits my needs.

 

[PAsoundman]

Crossover setting is very subjective and can be debated all day. With proper blending of subs/mids and highs you can set your crossover whatever you like. I run my mids and high cross over nothing less than 200. I promise you will not be able to tell the difference in sound degradation. My crossover settings are there to protect the equipment that is being over powered. There is no rule or thumb where crossovers should be. But again vocals are not lower than 200!!

Well anyone can set random crossovers wherever they like, sure but to say it will not affect sound degradation is another story. Crossovers are set to provide optimal performance and ensure the drivers operate in a passband they were designed for and will sound best in, accompanying the other drivers in the system. It sounds like you have found a setup that works for you, and that is great. There are certainly some "rule of thumb" settings for crossovers. For example, it is generally accepted that doubling the FS of the driver being used is a good/safe starting point at which to apply an LR4 crossover. In addition, understanding the acoustic response of the driver in the application helps with designing a proper crossover to maximize the performance. Setting crossovers is not done willy nilly and I know you are not suggesting that. Judging from what you have posted, you are likely crossing over that high purely for the ability to have more output without killing your drivers. There is certainly nothing wrong with that. Can that make compromises in the sound quality of the system? Sure, but it depends on the system and the individual application.
There are plenty of pro audio "subwoofers" and "woofers" that have low enough inductance and high enough power handling to be able to play at very high output levels and clean enough to be crossed over high so it really depends on the drivers used and the application.

Also, the graph I posted above shows the frequency ranges of instruments *and* vocals. You will note that the lowest registers for male vocals are certainly well below 200hz.


Cheers

 

[FloJet]

Well anyone can set random crossovers wherever they like, sure but to say it will not affect sound degradation is another story. Crossovers are set to provide optimal performance and ensure the drivers operate in a passband they were designed for and will sound best in, accompanying the other drivers in the system. It sounds like you have found a setup that works for you, and that is great. There are certainly some "rule of thumb" settings for crossovers. For example, it is generally accepted that doubling the FS of the driver being used is a good/safe starting point at which to apply an LR4 crossover. In addition, understanding the acoustic response of the driver in the application helps with designing a proper crossover to maximize the performance. Setting crossovers is not done willy nilly and I know you are not suggesting that. Judging from what you have posted, you are likely crossing over that high purely for the ability to have more output without killing your drivers. There is certainly nothing wrong with that. Can that make compromises in the sound quality of the system? Sure, but it depends on the system and the individual application.
There are plenty of pro audio "subwoofers" and "woofers" that have low enough inductance and high enough power handling to be able to play at very high output levels and clean enough to be crossed over high so it really depends on the drivers used and the application.

Also, the graph I posted above shows the frequency ranges of instruments *and* vocals. You will note that the lowest registers for male vocals are certainly well below 200hz.


Cheers

Very well said.
One thing you do need to take into consideration is vehicles vs open air/boats. For most normal vehicle applications I agree so much. In the boating world, you don't have the enclosed space for sound resonate and all. So most high end systems in the boating world shoot for more output rather than sound quality. Hence why most use ported boxes vs sealed in boats. Too much variables involved when you are in open space as you are on boats.

And yes you are correct about crossovers. But one must be careful with their settings when you are pushing double the recommended power to the drivers as I am with a midbass driver. With such power, any frequencies the driver is not truly made to handle could have the possibility of being damaged due to over excursion/heat. Midbass drivers like the Rev 10s and 410s can handle both high and lows but at expense at what power? Too much power with too much low frequency and BOOM. Which I have done lol. So just like you said it all depends on the equipment. But I tend to live life on the edge and push my equipment further than most would go.

But all in all when I hear folks saying they want more output without breaking out the pocket book, higher crossovers can help them achieve that. Some folks are pushing 100 watts per speaker and still not satisfied. Well I believe with higher settings and more bass/midbass removed, the more output they will achieve. Sound quality? Well that's subjective for all who hears it. Pros might be able to tell but most of us are not Pros I don't' think.

 

[Joe Chop]

What year is your boat?

Added the 600/6 JL amp and the boat finally sounds good. I don't know why the this amp isn't stock. I'm now looking to change the polk to JL to match and improve quality at volume. The audio dealer suggested replacing the 6 stock 6.5" with the JL 7.7". Trying to find out if anyone has done that to see fitment. At least I have volume now - just max out at around 85% before distortion really sets in.

year

 

[Hector]

They will fit without mods except in the front where you will need spacers for them.
I’m running 6 mx 7.7 in the cabin, 2 m 7.7 in the swim platform, 2 12” jl w6 and 2 8” wetsounds icon 8’s.
All powered by 2 m700 and a m600 and wetsounds 420.
Sounds ok

 

[Jaylex]

That def makes me wish I went with the 7.7s,lol...that must sound pretty nice.

Why run the MXs inside and the Ms off the transom, vs all being the same...more output from the back? Are the 7.7s MX&Ms all getting the same amount of power?

I wish I could run all M7.7s, like 10 of them, all getting 125-150 watts....

Know I finally know what this one guy was running with no tower and was easily louder than everyone with a tower, must have had 7.7s and 8.8s cuz it was LOUD and CLEAR.

I enjoy seeing all the love (money) members have poured into these vessels, my finance is finally understanding that I'm not the only one, lol

 

[Hector]

That def makes me wish I went with the 7.7s,lol...that must sound pretty nice.

Why run the MXs inside and the Ms off the transom, vs all being the same...more output from the back? Are the 7.7s MX&Ms all getting the same amount of power?

I wish I could run all M7.7s, like 10 of them, all getting 125-150 watts....

Know I finally know what this one guy was running with no tower and was easily louder than everyone with a tower, must have had 7.7s and 8.8s cuz it was LOUD and CLEAR.

I enjoy seeing all the love (money) members have poured into these vessels, my finance is finally understanding that I'm not the only one, lol

Honestly didn’t see a point in spending any more for the cabin speakers if I can’t power them right.
I did not want more than 3 amps either.
I have the m60p powering the mx 7.7 s in the cabin, one m700 bridged to the m 7.7s in the back and the sub channel running at 2 ohms to one 12” w6. The other m700 Bridget to the 2 towers w sub channel also 2 ohms to the other sub.
I’m also powering the stock tweeters from the head unit.
The 6 mx 7.7 are plenty loud in the cabin but wanted the extra power to the swim platform and towers since we always backin to the cove.

 

[FloJet]

Honestly didn’t see a point in spending any more for the cabin speakers if I can’t power them right.
I did not want more than 3 amps either.
I have the m60p powering the mx 7.7 s in the cabin, one m700 bridged to the m 7.7s in the back and the sub channel running at 2 ohms to one 12” w6. The other m700 Bridget to the 2 towers w sub channel also 2 ohms to the other sub.
I’m also powering the stock tweeters from the head unit.
The 6 mx 7.7 are plenty loud in the cabin but wanted the extra power to the swim platform and towers since we always backin to the cove.

Nice setup @Hector. How are you liking those JL W6? I've heard great things about them but I've never heard them in person. I almost went that route tho. How many watts are you pushing to each one of those subs?

 

[Jgorm]

W6s and w7s are super bad ass speakers.

 

[Hector]

Nice setup @Hector. How are you liking those JL W6? I've heard great things about them but I've never heard them in person. I almost went that route tho. How many watts are you pushing to each one of those subs?

its the sub channel of each m700/5 , 300w rms to each.

 

[Hector]

I've run them in the driveway and they are LOUD, but don't have the clarity I'd like. Before the 100w per channel amp, the stock was garbage. I was very disappointed with them. I'm not in a hurry to change the polk's out, but it's going to happen. I just want to know how hard it would be to get 7.7's in the same space as the 6.5's.

they fit. see my post above

 

[FloJet]

W6s and w7s are super bad ass speakers.

Oh yes indeed.

 

[FloJet]

its the sub channel of each m700/5 , 300w rms to each.

Oh ok cool. I bet they hit hard. You have them in a ported or sealed box?

 

[Hector]

Oh ok cool. I bet they hit hard. You have them in a ported or sealed box?

ported. one below the helm and the other in the storage behind the captain seat. I have 2 6" vents at each location to let the air out.

 

[FloJet]

ported. one below the helm and the other in the storage behind the captain seat. I have 2 6" vents at each location to let the air out.

Oh wow interesting. I'm def curious to see how you did the one behind the helm without messing with the polk radio and all back there. Sounds like you have your setup like a lot of wake boats do.

 

[Hector]

Oh wow interesting. I'm def curious to see how you did the one behind the helm without messing with the polk radio and all back there. Sounds like you have your setup like a lot of wake boats do.

the box is inside the helm area with the sub firing into the fold up door. The box is all the way back though against the curvature of the boat.

 

[FloJet]

the box is inside the helm area with the sub firing into the fold up door. The box is all the way back though against the curvature of the boat.

Oh ok gotcha. I'm guessing box is probably around 2 cubic ft then. With the right vent hole in that area I like that area. More centered and ideal at times.

 

[Jaylex]

@Hector can you post pics of the sub in the helm? Super interesting location with solid benefits.

I just had my 2 12w3s in the port storage but am getting them split up under the benches in ported boxes and might see if the helm might work as good.

How does it sound....is the 6in port enough, minimal vibration since that area has a lot of the electronics.

Pics please

 

[Jaylex]

I like how you used 5 channel amps to get the right wattage to each speaker....that's why I asked since I've been told the M series is only worth it if you can give it a lot of power....min 100w.

Pics of the MX7.7s?

 

[FloJet]

I like how you used 5 channel amps to get the right wattage to each speaker....that's why I asked since I've been told the M series is only worth it if you can give it a lot of power....min 100w.

Pics of the MX7.7s?

Haha matter of time before we all screamed for pics @Hector LMAO. But I do have a good visualization of it since I keep my amps back there. Really is a good place if I didn't have my amps back there. Another concern would be do the latch door rattle when those beasts are pounding in there.